Withdrawal issue All Jackpots

[Mouche12]

I am a regular depositor at All Jackpots and had made a withdrawal yesterday to my Neteller account. I use both Moneybookers, Click2Pay and Neteller.

I received the money into my Moneybookers account, although I had mentioned on the banking page that my withdrawal should be credited to my Neteller account. Below is a copy of the chat, what do you think about this? I find it very strange!



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You are now chatting with Robin
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Robin: Hi , I'm Robin from the Concierge Desk , how may I assist you?
Me: hi Robin yesterday I withdrew 300 usd
Me: to my Neteller account... I fear
Me: that it has gone to my moneybookersaccount
Me: @hotmail.com
Robin: I will gladly check, just a moment please.
Me: is your moneybookers account moneybookers11@mercantrade.com?
Me: my account is
Me: thanks
Robin: Jacqueline thank you for waiting. I can see that the money was sent to your MoneyBookers account.
Me: yes, I specificly requested
Me: Neteller
Me: as you can see in your log
Me: so, I am not happy with it, but okay
Me: I specifically withdrew to Neteller
Me: so what happened?
Robin: Did you contact us with this request or only rejested it through the banking page?
Me: I requested it at the banking page
Me: there you can choose from the withdrawal options available
Me: My last deposit was actually neteller
Me: so this is not very accurate, is it?
Me: I asked to flush it
Robin: Yes, however the casino terms and condition state that any method used over the last 60 days can be used as a withdrawal method. We try o process the funds to the account the player asked for, but it's not always possible.
Me: that is ridiculous!
Me: really!
Me: I was given the option to decide to which e-wallet I wanted it to be withdrawn
Me: this is not good
Me: I expect an email from your manager explaining me in detail what has happened and that it will NEVER happen again. Next time, if I withdraw, use the e-wall that I have indicated... its simple as that
Me: Can I expect an email soon?
Robin: I understand that you are upset, however your withdrawal was processed according to business rules and as explained the in banking section on our website.
Me: tsss
Me: So and if i make an additional request by live chat, would that help?
Robin: If there is a problem with one of your available withdrawal methods, you may contact us before requesting a withdrawal, explain the situation and we will assist you further.
Me: there is no problem on my side
Me: it is you
Robin: Jacqueline, as I said before your withdrawal was processed as it should have been. My answer is not going to change.
Me: no it hasnt, because I asked for Neteller
Me: First you say that you understand it, then you say it was processed as it should have been, you dont make any sense, sorry
Robin: We are not always able to process the withdrawal to the player's preferred method of payment.
Me: okay, thanks

Thanks for your time!

 

[vinylweatherman]

What a load of bollocks!!!

Really, - it isn't rocket science to pay a Neteller withdrawal to Neteller etc.

The quote is a load of bollocks too - there are NO business rules and regulations ACTUALLY LAID OUT. Basically, it means "F*** your preference - we do what we feel like on the day" (and this is what they do, there is no CONSISTENCY in how they apply these "rules", so therefore there ARE no hard & fast rules).

Even when they decide to pay to Neteller, they sometimes can't get that right either. I have sometimes seen them pay me, but it is marked "declined", and the money actually isn't there.

They are even breaking their own rules in this situation, since your last deposit WAS Neteller, and their rules also state that amounts up to the value of the deposit MUST go back (if possible) to the method used to make that deposit.

JF are not alone in this though, pretty much every casino behaves in this manner.

Best response - tell them that you have uninstalled the casino, and will be playing elsewhere for the next 60 days in order to allow their messed up system to "forget" all your deposits, so that you can at least know that your next withdrawal will go back to the method used to deposit.

BY the way,

PLEASE edit out your Moneybookers account name, and your casino account number ASAP - Moneybookers security is considered weak, and this is like posting a copy of one of your blank cheques on a forum.

 

[kmay87]

Could be an idea to edit your personal details out of that chat log

 

[RobWin]

Robin: We are not always able to process the withdrawal to the player's preferred method of payment.
Me: okay, thanks

Your next question should have been..."Why Not" instead of "okay, thanks"

Considering that Neteller was your last deposit method and that is the method that you requested for the withdrawal.

Seems as though the casino is taking it upon themselves here to randomly pick and choose cash-out methods for their customers.

 

[Mouche12]

Your next question should have been..."Why Not" instead of "okay, thanks"

Considering that Neteller was your last deposit method and that is the method that you requested for the withdrawal.

Seems as though the casino is taking it upon themselves here to randomly pick and choose cash-out methods for their customers.

You are absolute right! First of all, I have edited my details as you can see.

And I am actually quite happy with All Jackpots, this I dont understand, should I send a message to their rep here? Thanks for your time all!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Your next question should have been..."Why Not" instead of "okay, thanks"

Considering that Neteller was your last deposit method and that is the method that you requested for the withdrawal.

Seems as though the casino is taking it upon themselves here to randomly pick and choose cash-out methods for their customers.

SPOT ON!!!!!!

I have made many withdrawals there, and I can assure you there ARE no hard & fast rules. They really DO just pick & choose from a player's recently used deposit options which one they will pay the withdrawal back to. They even break more well defined rules in doing so. Other players have had them pay withdrawals back to CLOSED accounts, and this is a BIG PROBLEM.

Even NET WINNINGS are not paid back to the selected withdrawal method, which is what the choice in the banking page is all about. Deposits go back to where they came from, and winnings should go to a player's preferred method.

Oddly enough, years ago, THEY GOT THIS RIGHT, as did many an online casino. Now, with a few years of advances in technology, they can't do it anymore - hardly inspires confidence in the industry.

All this does is to p1$$ of depositing players, who will probably deposit less, for fear any withdrawal will go to some randomly selected account, leaving them to track it down. Casinos that are better at paying withdrawals in a LOGICAL manner, will receive the business.

It is not just about "rules", it is about the LACK of a set of hard & fast rules. JF could simply refund deposits back to the method of deposit, and winnings back to a preferred method of withdrawal. This is what JF USED to do, and it was pretty simple to understand, and easy to know where the withdrawals would turn up.

I have had a few occasions where a withdrawal from a JF casino has defied ALL the "rules", and I have been waiting for it to appear, only to find it had turned up somewhere unexpected.

That 60 day "rule" is also bullshine, depends who you ask - I have been told they work with 180 days

If casinos in general are concerned about the fall off in gross deposits from their player base, this is certainly one issue they should look at. Players who find they are paid on time, without any tricks, stalls, or any other "funky goings on" are more likely to continue depositing, rather than feel the whole industry is in terminal decline, and stop playing altogether.

 

[Tengil]

Sort of reminded me why I didnt continue to play Jackpot Factory after taking 2 SUBs. Withdrew 1200 and 500 and they only refunded the deposits back to Neteller and the rest was paid with cheques.

It took a long time and my bank charged 35 for each cheque.

 

[RobWin]

You are absolute right! First of all, I have edited my details as you can see.

And I am actually quite happy with All Jackpots, this I dont understand, should I send a message to their rep here? Thanks for your time all!

Yea, if I were you I would contact their Rep here for further clarification and understanding on this issue and why they chose to handle it the way they did. Let us know what you find out.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sort of reminded me why I didnt continue to play Jackpot Factory after taking 2 SUBs. Withdrew 1200 and 500 and they only refunded the deposits back to Neteller and the rest was paid with cheques.

It took a long time and my bank charged 35 for each cheque.

Now THAT is just taking the p1$$, Neteller was SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED so that players had easy access to a method for painless deposits AND WITHDRAWALS from online gambling sites. Casinos have a DUTY OF CARE to customers to use a method that does not create UNNECESSARY BURDENS on the player (if they want to keep that player, and their reputation in the online gaming community).

Cheques, in many cases, are the WORST, SLOWEST, MOST COSTLY, and INCONVENIENT way to pay a player, and should ONLY be used where a player does NOT have access to a deposit method that can accept withdrawals.
To a few, they cannot even be cashed, and end up as expensive wallpaper.

SOMEONE here is LYING. Neteller tell me this is all a load of bullsh1t that casinos are spinning us about "cannot pay back to Neteller" in it's various forms. Once a casino has it's merchant account set up, it can accept deposits from, and pay withdrawals to, players through Neteller. Other than short Neteller "down for maintenance" periods, there are no times where casios all of a sudden cannot pay back through Neteller whilst they still have their merchant account. It's purely a stalling and juggling act by the casino, but they shift the blame by distancing themselves from the fact that they have simply decided to pick & choose at random what methods to use for a particular player by climing that a set of rules has been followed.

You can clearly see this when you ask further questions - they CANNOT specify the set of rules, and ANY system that works in this manner would be able to provide the rule set used for the operation, maybe even a flowchart.

"Can't pay back to Neteller" is a favourite rogue Playtech excuse, but it seems that reputable casinos are now trying this on in some cases.

 

[spearmaster]

I think most of you have forgotten that, when collecting winnings, most casinos will reverse/refund as many transactions as necessary in the last 60 days. Obviously if you've used two (or more!) methods, this can be problematic - but again this is to reduce any processing charges that they may incur, as well as to reduce/eliminate the possibility of a chargeback.

Your last deposit method is not the only determination for your payout.

 

[bb28]

I know in ways it's like comparing apples and oranges but still in a B&M, you've got two options, cash or check. Does anyone else besides me think that online casino's often times fail to consider what the customer wishes and actually specifies as their preferred withdrawal method in the guise of covering their own as*? We are the customers and the people who pay their bills and we are the reason they they are in business and also the reason they are making a profit. Perhaps they should remember this more often instead of dicking people around who are their bread and butter.

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

I dont understand why all the attack on All Jackpots Casino??? I have not had any problems at all.....

As long as you do Your home work, and contact by email as well, and not only livechat......

Maybe its different for me, as i am VIP there, and i can send to the VIP support, i have asked them every time, if they could please procces my full withdrawels to my moneybookers, despite i had only been using Ukash as deposit etc.. for a long time....

And they were very friendly, and put the request trought to management, who then accepted and said that it wasnt a problem.

And the whole ammount has gone to my moneybookers within 2o hours each time.... so heads up for them.

 

[4 of a kind]

A couple years ago I had a substantial cash out. When discussing the terms with the casino manager, he mentioned he would prefer a certain way to pay me. He said that funds in another form of pay out were low at the moment and his way would expedite the pay out. In this particular case it didn't matter to me, so I said sure.

Based I what he said I assumed that each type of processor required actual money in hand to make a payment. I'm certainly not saying this is a fact, but was the impression I got.

So maybe the casino had allot of funds in a certain processor and wanted to use them.

Just a thought...

 

[jod5413]

I know in ways it's like comparing apples and oranges but still in a B&M, you've got two options, cash or check. Does anyone else besides me think that online casino's often times fail to consider what the customer wishes and actually specifies as their preferred withdrawal method in the guise of covering their own as*? We are the customers and the people who pay their bills and we are the reason they they are in business and also the reason they are making a profit. Perhaps they should remember this more often instead of dicking people around who are their bread and butter.

It is a strange "new world" out there, BB, if you are in the USA, all bets are off, and people need to realise that fact.

I do believe that most casinos, the "good or accredited casinos" here at Casinomeister, do their best, considering the murky waters they are treading.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I think most of you have forgotten that, when collecting winnings, most casinos will reverse/refund as many transactions as necessary in the last 60 days. Obviously if you've used two (or more!) methods, this can be problematic - but again this is to reduce any processing charges that they may incur, as well as to reduce/eliminate the possibility of a chargeback.

Your last deposit method is not the only determination for your payout.

I'm afraid JF DON'T follow this, which is why it is so confusing. I track my deposits made from my credit card, and earlier this year, I withdrew a SURPLUS over the total amount deposited, yet they STILL ignored my choice of method, and shunted the ENTIRE amount back to the card.

It looks very much like a case of pick & choose with them, and if this is so, they should allow CUSTOMERS to pick & choose, or at least give a PROPER EXPLANATION when they have to go against the customer's choice. Quoting the generic "business rules" is BS, they should give specifics, and even offer players the chance to wait till their choice can be used again.

If I went into a store and bought something, and the cashier said they would have to send me my change in the post as a cheque - I would be LIVID, and would not shop there again. Casinos seem to think this kind of thing is acceptable, and b****r the convenience or otherwise for the customers. Whatever happened to "the customer is always right", a way to express the sentiment that a business is utterly dependent on the goodwill & trust of it's customers.
Businesses that run things for their own convenience, and forget the customers, soon find those customers find a better place.

 

[spearmaster]

I'm afraid JF DON'T follow this, which is why it is so confusing. I track my deposits made from my credit card, and earlier this year, I withdrew a SURPLUS over the total amount deposited, yet they STILL ignored my choice of method, and shunted the ENTIRE amount back to the card.

The only thing I can assume is that you had more outstanding on that credit card than with any other method - either that or CC is considered to be at a higher risk of chargebacks than other methods.

It looks very much like a case of pick & choose with them, and if this is so, they should allow CUSTOMERS to pick & choose, or at least give a PROPER EXPLANATION when they have to go against the customer's choice. Quoting the generic "business rules" is BS, they should give specifics, and even offer players the chance to wait till their choice can be used again.

It's risk management, pure and simple. I do kind of think they should try to honor the player's requests if possible, though...

I figure the equation is something like this - (withdrawal amount -total amount refundable) x processing percentage x chargeback risk factor = chosen method. I'm sure this is not the exact equation but it will be along these lines.

 

[Tengil]

Now THAT is just taking the p1$$, Neteller was SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED so that players had easy access to a method for painless deposits AND WITHDRAWALS from online gambling sites. Casinos have a DUTY OF CARE to customers to use a method that does not create UNNECESSARY BURDENS on the player (if they want to keep that player, and their reputation in the online gaming community).

Cheques, in many cases, are the WORST, SLOWEST, MOST COSTLY, and INCONVENIENT way to pay a player, and should ONLY be used where a player does NOT have access to a deposit method that can accept withdrawals.
To a few, they cannot even be cashed, and end up as expensive wallpaper.

SOMEONE here is LYING. Neteller tell me this is all a load of bullsh1t that casinos are spinning us about "cannot pay back to Neteller" in it's various forms. Once a casino has it's merchant account set up, it can accept deposits from, and pay withdrawals to, players through Neteller. Other than short Neteller "down for maintenance" periods, there are no times where casios all of a sudden cannot pay back through Neteller whilst they still have their merchant account. It's purely a stalling and juggling act by the casino, but they shift the blame by distancing themselves from the fact that they have simply decided to pick & choose at random what methods to use for a particular player by climing that a set of rules has been followed.

You can clearly see this when you ask further questions - they CANNOT specify the set of rules, and ANY system that works in this manner would be able to provide the rule set used for the operation, maybe even a flowchart.

"Can't pay back to Neteller" is a favourite rogue Playtech excuse, but it seems that reputable casinos are now trying this on in some cases.

Well I never went back

And was a bit worried when I got the cheques as they have Proc-Cyber as their processor.
They once sent (from a different MG) a cheque that was written in a non-existent currency. My bank actually suspected I was conned And what trouble it caused to get it cancelled and finally get the money to Neteller.
They (Proc-Cyber) seemed to be totally incompetent.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The only thing I can assume is that you had more outstanding on that credit card than with any other method - either that or CC is considered to be at a higher risk of chargebacks than other methods.


It's risk management, pure and simple. I do kind of think they should try to honor the player's requests if possible, though...

I figure the equation is something like this - (withdrawal amount -total amount refundable) x processing percentage x chargeback risk factor = chosen method. I'm sure this is not the exact equation but it will be along these lines.

Not in this case, since they had already covered all purchases made from previous withdrawals. What happened is that I then made some NEW purchases, but rather than doing what their rules SAY, they decided to put it ALL back to the card.

This IS a problem for some players, because credit cards in general are NOT allowed to go INTO credit, and this is because of moneylaundering regulations - it is easy to move money quickly by overfunding a credit card, and immediately making "purchases" with the funds, with these "purchases" actually being the laundering part of the exercise. These rules are made by the card issuing banks, and merchants should ONLY be using the OCT scheme to refund past deposits, since these appear as such to the card issuer, and will not raise such concerns that they are an attempt to over fund a card.
DEBIT cards are, of course, different, and no problems should arise if ALL of a withdrawal goes back to one.

The worst thing about this is the utter lack of common courtesy, WHY not simply tell the customer how they will get paid, rather than go through the charade of having them select a preferred method, and finding it is constantly ignored. IF there is a problem for the customer, they at least have the opportunity to contact the casino in advance to make alternative arrangements, something that it is too late to do once they see the money in the wrong place.

The forum is full of cases where players are having problems with one ewalllet or another, or even have changed banks, been issued new cards, etc. Knowing in advance where their funds are being sent gives them a chance to ensure these destination accounts are still active, and that all the information is up to date.

Click2Pay was a case in point, suddenly telling players that they could no longer withdraw funds from Click2Pay, but could only use them to make transactions. This goes against responsible gambling guidelines, and meant players were caught up in a cycle of never being able to quit whilst ahead and take winnings, but had to keep recycling them till they had lost it all.

Casinos may want to reduce their costs, but they MUST excercise a duty of care towards their customers, just as would be expected of any other business, especially a REGULATED one.

PLAYERS can make life easier for themselves too, rather than use a different deposit method when one runs dry - DON'T DEPOSIT - let the slots go hungry. Try to allocate ONE of your deposit methods to each of your casinos, even if not the SAME one at each of the casinos. This way, players can be certain where a withdrawal from a particular casino will end up (unless they send a cheque).

Certain deposit methods cannot accept withdrawals, and this can cause more problems, since it seems casinos don't follow a set rule, even if they have one.

If casinos continue to mess players around with where withdrawals end up, players are going to deposit less, for one thing, they will be searching for their withdrawal from casino A rather than depositing at casino B that day. They may also come to the conclusion that the easiest way to avoid problems is to ditch all but one deposit method, and play ONLY when they have money in it.

The OP is in such a mess because they use all 3 of the ewallets, and this makes it a bit of a lottery as to where a withdrawal ends up. Neteller is the best of a bad bunch, so I would suggest to the OP to ditch Moneybookers and Click2Pay (so many problems!), and work with Neteller, and this might also make their level there reach VIP, and an extended account there can hold a higher balance (my VIP extended account can hold 25,000). You can also PHONE Neteller, not so easy an option with Moneybookers or Click2Pay, who both also ignore emails, or have a very hard to use web based system.

Casinos will get away with this so long as players' urge to play exceeds their colective urge to keep things simple by having ONE ewallet, and perhaps ONE card (I use ONE ewallet, and ONE very gambling friendly credit card).

 

[spearmaster]

This IS a problem for some players, because credit cards in general are NOT allowed to go INTO credit, and this is because of moneylaundering regulations - it is easy to move money quickly by overfunding a credit card, and immediately making "purchases" with the funds, with these "purchases" actually being the laundering part of the exercise.

Agreed. Some of my cards aren't allowed to go into credit at all, others by no more than 10%.

The worst thing about this is the utter lack of common courtesy, WHY not simply tell the customer how they will get paid, rather than go through the charade of having them select a preferred method, and finding it is constantly ignored. IF there is a problem for the customer, they at least have the opportunity to contact the casino in advance to make alternative arrangements, something that it is too late to do once they see the money in the wrong place.

Probably because they cannot choose the best method until after you make a request - otherwise they'd have to run a query at each withdrawal, before responding that you will be paid back to whatever method... and that's before fraud or deductions or whatever, which could in fact change the method which makes most sense.

Casinos may want to reduce their costs, but they MUST excercise a duty of care towards their customers, just as would be expected of any other business, especially a REGULATED one.

Won't argue with that. But the question is how to do it!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Agreed. Some of my cards aren't allowed to go into credit at all, others by no more than 10%.



Probably because they cannot choose the best method until after you make a request - otherwise they'd have to run a query at each withdrawal, before responding that you will be paid back to whatever method... and that's before fraud or deductions or whatever, which could in fact change the method which makes most sense.



Won't argue with that. But the question is how to do it!

There is nothing to stop them informing the player once they have assigned the withdrawal to a particular method, there is still time then for the player to get it changed if necessary.

Casinos MUST act along with their business partners, and should NOT be sending large amounts back to credit cards whose conditions specifically disallow these cards from being in credit. Since these cards ask the user to ensure this, they MUST be kept informed by the casino so that they are able to ensure compliance with credit card terms and conditions.

This is all a pretty recent development in the industry, and previously, cards would not accept reverses of any kind from gambling merchants. If casinos create trouble by repeatedly sending funds back to cards that break the terms of use, these banks may pull out of the OCT scheme altogether, leaving casinos back with more costly processing as a result.

Sending funds back to the "wrong" ewallet is less serious, but surely a customer a business repeatedly annoys is progressively less and less likely to come back - there is a wealth of competition out there.

MY credit card is unusually relaxed about gambling transactions, and it has gone several thousand into credit without any problems, not even a phone call. It may not stay this way though, as others have tightened up to the point of banning such transactions to any other than UK regulated brands, or their offshoots in places such as Gibraltar.

Given the amount of documentation that players now have to give to casinos, their requests on withdrawal method should be honoured, since the casino knows exactly who they are, with a resultant minimal fraud risk. To do otherwise sends out a message that the player is NEVER going to be trusted by the casino, yet casinos seem to think that us PLAYERS should trust them based on their reputation, many will not even give US THEIR corporate ID (those owning, or the corporate entity behind, the casino in question).