Withdrawal held due to SOW

Slottery

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These rules are not really made by casinos but by regulators. Also collusion is against most of casinos T&C:s so if doing it, better not let it show in your statement or it's then own fault if not getting paid.
 

colinsunderland

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Well that is not enough accordingly to the regulation for casino.

But please be aware, Sportsbook and Casinos don't have same AML regulation. A sportsbook don't need to collect SOW.
Im not sure exactly how they get around it, but I guess if you do 2 companies, one for sports and one for casino with different licenses. You take all deposits on the Sportsbook company and then you have two balances, then you do internal transfer to fund your casino balance. That would in theory reduce the risk and SOW wouldn't be required.

It can also be so that they simply will accept any fine coming their way to avoid all hassle with customers. The UKGC fines are very small compared to what the big bookies are making.
Like William Hill was fined a few years back for AML failings.
As far as I'm aware they do have the same regulations under the law. If they suspect any hint of criminality then they have to undertake due diligence, the same as any other organisation dealing with financial matters.
I thought you were launching a sportsbook over a year ago, why don't you do that and save all the SoW requests if that is the case?
 

Mr_Slot5

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As far as I'm aware they do have the same regulations under the law. If they suspect any hint of criminality then they have to undertake due diligence, the same as any other organisation dealing with financial matters.
I thought you were launching a sportsbook over a year ago, why don't you do that and save all the SoW requests if that is the case?
I think the difference between the Maltese casinos and the UK ones is that the Maltese ones are setting these arbitrary thresholds to trigger SOW rather than doing it on an account by account basis. I would imagine the big UK bookies have designated personnel monitoring accounts rather than a generic department that solely deals with accounts once the arbitrary threshold has been met. That's the feeling I get anyway.

Someone with a £50 a week deposit limit set is highly unlikely to be a launderer nor a problem gambler yet under the system a lot of Maltese casinos operate, once the deposit threshold had been triggered, the customer would be expected to send in sensitive documents and have their withdrawal held for little reason at all.

That's the difference between how the UK & Maltese systems operate.
 
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SpinUk

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I explained in this thread here how AML regulation work in UK including attaching a link to the regulation itself.

Videoslots refusing payment
Yes - this.

Same old tricks from the casinos. The rules are perfectly clear. Either pay up or submit a SAR. If a SAR is submitted then HM Customs and Excise have 30 days in which to prosecute or instruct the Casino to give the money back - this can be extended to 60 days in extreme/complicated circumstances - think drug cartels and 7/8 figure amounts as those are the circumstances where it is extended.


Now, I can tell you there would not be a single Casino in the the UK that has submitted more than a couple of these in a calendar year - if that - due to the work involved, the authorities that need to be notified and most importantly the red flags that come into play when applying for re-licence to trade as a Casino.

Yet still we have same old tricks attempted by the usual culprits, thinking they have Carte Blanche to withhold funds as they see fit.

You are well within your rights to demand a chargeback from your bank for the £500 and you will likely get it as well.
I explained in this thread here how AML regulation work in UK including attaching a link to the regulation itself.

Videoslots refusing payment
 

Mr Wild

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Malta
Now, I can tell you there would not be a single Casino in the the UK that has submitted more than a couple of these in a calendar year - if that - due to the work involved, the authorities that need to be notified and most importantly the red flags that come into play when applying for re-licence to trade as a Casino.

I do believe several companies submitted over 100s of SAR's in the UK. The top 3 companies in Malta all submitted over 100 during 2019.
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Gambling companies in UK submitted over 4000 SAR's between April 2018 to March 2019 together, that amount is probably higher during 2020.
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Mr Wild

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I think the difference between the Maltese casinos and the UK ones is that the Maltese ones are setting these arbitrary thresholds to trigger SOW rather than doing it on an account by account basis. I would imagine the big UK bookies have designated personnel monitoring accounts rather than a generic department that solely deals with accounts once the arbitrary threshold has been met. That's the feeling I get anyway.

Someone with a £50 a week deposit limit set is highly unlikely to be a launderer nor a problem gambler yet under the system a lot of Maltese casinos operate, once the deposit threshold had been triggered, the customer would be expected to send in sensitive documents and have their withdrawal held for little reason at all.

That's the difference between how the UK & Maltese systems operate.

Which casino requested SOW on £50 deposit?
 

colinsunderland

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Which casino requested SOW on £50 deposit?
Energy requested SoW from me on under £100 deposits in a 2 year period. Not just a request of what my income was, a full SoW, payslips, bank statements etc. That was after a £20 deposit, my first one for about 6 months.
There was another requested it on lifetime deposits of around £1000 (about 3 year old account), and I was in profit there. They said it was RG related, so they thought I might have a gambling problem with an average of £7ish a week, of which I didn't actually lose anything. Never reversed or anything either. Yep, that makes sense. Needless to say, both accounts were closed instantly.
 

Mr_Slot5

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There was another requested it on lifetime deposits of around £1000 (about 3 year old account), and I was in profit there. They said it was RG related, so they thought I might have a gambling problem with an average of £7ish a week,
:laugh: :laugh:

This just highlights the issue perfectly. Absolutely 0 justification to request such information.

Just goes to prove that at some casinos, they don't even take time to look at the account history before hitting you with such requests. Backs up my assertion above about arbitrary limits. As you can see from your example, this is NOT the way to go about business.
 

Playford7

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Anybody using 3rd party funds should be banned and have every penny confiscated.

if you do not have the means to fund gambling yourself at the first point of contact then you have no business placing a wager anywhere.

not only is it embarrassing anyone should use a third party to spin a slot it throws up red flags all over for the casino whom rightly have money laundering and source of wealth to consider, not to mention KYC and the rules they must adhere to.
 

Mr_Slot5

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Cheshire
Anybody using 3rd party funds should be banned and have every penny confiscated.

if you do not have the means to fund gambling yourself at the first point of contact then you have no business placing a wager anywhere.

not only is it embarrassing anyone should use a third party to spin a slot it throws up red flags all over for the casino whom rightly have money laundering and source of wealth to consider, not to mention KYC and the rules they must adhere to.
Don't be naive mate, it happens. A tad harsh.

I've seen community deposits on Twitch (non affiliated). It halves the liability (loss) for both parties and adds an element of fun. Doesn't mean the individual doesn't have the means to fund their own gambling or are a launderer!

A lot of assumptions are made about people and their circumstances where gambling is concerned!
 

Playford7

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Don't be naive mate, it happens. A tad harsh.

I've seen community deposits on Twitch (non affiliated). It halves the liability (loss) for both parties and adds an element of fun. Doesn't mean the individual doesn't have the means to fund their own gambling or are a launderer!

A lot of assumptions are made about people and their circumstances where gambling is concerned!
Sorry mate don’t agree at all..

Why
need to share or use anyone else to deposit?

also twitch and streaming is cancer so those low lives are irrelevant to regular decent folks.

If you can’t pay yourself via your own method then sorry you can’t afford it or manage your finances correctly to enable you to.
 

Mr_Slot5

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Cheshire
Sorry mate don’t agree at all..

Why
need to share or use anyone else to deposit?

also twitch and streaming is cancer so those low lives are irrelevant to regular decent folks.

If you can’t pay yourself via your own method then sorry you can’t afford it or manage your finances correctly to enable you to.
But that's simply not true is it mate. Just because someone wants to share a deposit, it does not at all mean that either or both are broke. To suggest otherwise is churlish. I remember one coming out and being honest and saying it cuts his liability to do community deposits.

Put it this way, if I sent you £50 now and said 'here have a deposit on me' would that mean you don't have the money to gamble yourself? Of course it doesn't mean that.

I'm talking about non-affiliated guys on twitch, the affiliated people aren't allowed to split deposits with viewers- as set out in their affiliate agreements. I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, I'm just saying I've seen it happen. They were actually really good communities too, not toxic at all. As you know I used to watch a few of the small fry streams.

Anyway, hope you're well mate.
 
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colinsunderland

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Anybody using 3rd party funds should be banned and have every penny confiscated.

if you do not have the means to fund gambling yourself at the first point of contact then you have no business placing a wager anywhere.

not only is it embarrassing anyone should use a third party to spin a slot it throws up red flags all over for the casino whom rightly have money laundering and source of wealth to consider, not to mention KYC and the rules they must adhere to.
I think you might be missing a point here.

If I lent you £25 for something today and you paid it back to me next week and I used it to gamble with, if I then got a SoW, they would quite likely ask for your photo ID, address proof, bank statements and payslips. Would you supply them? Probably not, but a small possibility as it's me, and you would understand why. However, what if it your mate who has never gambled a penny in his life. What about if you bought something from someone on gumtree, a complete stranger, they paid you by bank transfer. Do you think you would have any chance at all of getting those details from him, say 3 months later? I would say the chances are greater of winning the Euromillions quadruple rollover twice in a row. But all the time, the casino refuse to pay your winnings as you haven't supplied someone else's personal documents, that they refuse to supply.

That can't be right.
 

Mr Wild

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Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
Energy requested SoW from me on under £100 deposits in a 2 year period. Not just a request of what my income was, a full SoW, payslips, bank statements etc. That was after a £20 deposit, my first one for about 6 months.
There was another requested it on lifetime deposits of around £1000 (about 3 year old account), and I was in profit there. They said it was RG related, so they thought I might have a gambling problem with an average of £7ish a week, of which I didn't actually lose anything. Never reversed or anything either. Yep, that makes sense. Needless to say, both accounts were closed instantly.

Well they must have a very low risk appetite :) I do think its very few that are that strict and they will kill their business if they continue on that level.
 

Mr Wild

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Location
Malta
Sorry mate don’t agree at all..

Why
need to share or use anyone else to deposit?

also twitch and streaming is cancer so those low lives are irrelevant to regular decent folks.

If you can’t pay yourself via your own method then sorry you can’t afford it or manage your finances correctly to enable you to.

Well most of these cases are married couples where one work and one take care of household and kids. They usually share their income.
 

Spikie

Experienced Member
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Dec 5, 2016
Location
Uk
People share deposits gambling in real life all the time , going quids in with your mate on the pub fruits , or splitting a sports bet etc.

So people will also share deposits online . That’s life .
 

SKH05

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Dec 12, 2020
Location
UK
The transactions from my friend in to my account total aprox £1000. Total deposits to the casinos minus withdrawals is 8k, I have asked if I was to provide evidence of where any cash deposits on my account have come from as well as obviously my salary and the overdraft evidenced on my statements (all together covers the 8k deposits) would this suffice however they will not process anything without the 3rd party documents which I am unable to obtain. I've read a few people mentioning that a SAR is usually submitted if no documents are provided within 30 days.. Is this correct? If so this all happened in june/July so should have already been done and obviously no evidence of laundering would have Been found.
 

Playford7

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But that's simply not true is it mate. Just because someone wants to share a deposit, it does not at all mean that either or both are broke. To suggest otherwise is churlish. I remember one coming out and being honest and saying it cuts his liability to do community deposits.

Put it this way, if I sent you £50 now and said 'here have a deposit on me' would that mean you don't have the money to gamble yourself? Of course it doesn't mean that.

I'm talking about non-affiliated guys on twitch, the affiliated people aren't allowed to split deposits with viewers- as set out in their affiliate agreements. I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, I'm just saying I've seen it happen. They were actually really good communities too, not toxic at all. As you know I used to watch a few of the small fry streams.

Anyway, hope you're well mate.
I just don’t see why anyone needs to lend to gamble.

why have to lend someone if they can afford it in the first place..

no disrespect mate obviously, I see your point but not using your own cash to gamble mate will always be a very dodgy road to walk.
 

Mr_Slot5

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May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
I just don’t see why anyone needs to lend to gamble.

why have to lend someone if they can afford it in the first place..

no disrespect mate obviously, I see your point but not using your own cash to gamble mate will always be a very dodgy road to walk.

But I wasn't talking about lending. Borrowing money to gamble is a sure fire way to get into a painful world of debt.

Of course borrowing to gamble is a completely different kettle of fish.

There's a world of difference between borrowing money to gamble and splitting a deposit with someone or being bankrolled. The last two are less affective of/independent of your own personal finances whereas borrowing money to gamble is a sign you have an issue.
 
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gonzo fonso

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Oct 15, 2020
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lincolnshire
its all crazy,its different horses for different courses,one casino ive been with from 2007 yes there UKGC big brand ive deposited thousands there and im still playing there,why they not asking for SOW or SOF then ?
 
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