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Wintingo T&C Using of autoplay to for the purpose of meeting WR.

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by akrus88, Oct 28, 2013.

    Oct 28, 2013
  1. akrus88

    akrus88 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Finland
    Hey ya!

    I opened my account at Wintingo years ago, used it a couple times and now have not used it for years.
    Now I thought to give it ago again, with the updated website.
    Red trough the T&C and found some odd terms,especially this one is really really confusing:

    "If WinTingo deems that the autoplay feature has been used for the purpose of meeting or abusing wagering requirements, we reserve the right to void winnings."
    What the heck?? Ofcourse I use autoplay for the purpose of meeting wagering requirements. You don't even have to abuse the wager requirements (how do you abuse WR :D I can understand abuse bonus somehow, but abuse WR?). But if you use autoplay to meet the WR, they have right to avoid winnings. If we take the term as it is written, you are not allowed to use autoplay while playing with a bonus. I wont be playing there until that term is somewhere in a far away land.

    I found this term also maybe not be up to the accreditation standards:
    "In the event that the WinTingo believes an entrant is abusing or attempting to abuse the Promotion, then the WinTingo may, at its sole discretion, deny, withhold or withdraw from such entrant the Bonus and any subsequent accumulated winnings."

    But more I am concerned (and confused) about the autoplay term.
     
    3 people like this.
  2. Oct 28, 2013
  3. wintingo

    wintingo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    player experience manager
    Location:
    Tingo Land
    Please be advised that auto play function is allowed to be used while playing with a bonus however if we find that this function was abused in order to reach the wagering requirements of a bonus then the casino has the right to enforce their terms and conditions. Unfortunately we cannot post publicly what Wintingo deem as abuse of this function as to reveal info about our internal abuse and fraud systems.

    As far as i know, this specific terms is quite well known among many casinos in the industry, including accredited casinos on CM. That being said, please send me your personal account details so i can investigate further.

    Regards

    Rob
     
  4. Oct 28, 2013
  5. zreb

    zreb Experienced Member

    Location:
    currently in US
    While I haven't really been around here that long, I would suppose that the vague nature of the term somewhat conflicts with the casinomeister philosophy. If it simply said, "Do not use autoplay with a bonus," that would be absolutely fine, but as it is, it draws the question of where exactly the line is between normal play and "abuse." The philosophy page here even argues that the term "bonus abuser" is a misnomer, so I doubt I'm too far off. I think that clear and transparent terms are valued, and many of the highly rated casinos spell out explicitly what they do not allow from players or consider "irregular" play that they reserve the right to take away winnings for.

    That being said, unless the casino uses the term to start taking money away from players left and right, it probably isn't significant enough to create an issue here. Even amongst accredited casinos, many will have a term that says they can take away your bonus winnings for pretty much whatever reason they please. While that's unfortunate, it's generally not a big issue. That's just the way things are. If you don't want to deal with that, don't take a bonus. Or ask support for clarification (though half the time they have no idea either).


    Also it seems pretty obvious that this "abuse" is referring to something along the lines of setting the autospin to 9999 spins, 1 cent per line, and walking away, in order to meet wagering requirements with minimal risk. Like I said, the term just isn't clear where the line is between normal play and abuse. 5 cents a spin, 15 cents, less than 10% of a previous average wager? Maybe the casino prefers to keep the line blurry and unknown to the player.
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Oct 28, 2013
  7. akrus88

    akrus88 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Finland
    Ye, but if taken literally. Term says: if you use autoplay to complete wr (meaning if you use autoplay while playing with bonus), your winning might be void.
    I do believe the term is not there to screw people over, but I think the wording is really confusing.
     
  8. Oct 28, 2013
  9. 007sam

    007sam Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Swinger
    Location:
    uk - NorthWest
    Terms like this I don't this they should be accredited....
     
  10. Oct 28, 2013
  11. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That is unacceptable. This is in effect a "secret term". We are not talking about FRAUD remember, but "spirit". It is necessary for players to know where the boundary lies between legitimate use of autoplay and where it will cause winnings to be confiscated.

    The only acceptable way to keep this a "secret criteria" is to ONLY apply it to FUTURE promotions, in other words, pay the player, then give them the boot.

    If the autoplay IS allowed to be used when playing a bonus, then you have no grounds for voiding winnings "because autoplay was used".

    I was under the impression that Wintingo had a novel kind of bonus system in any case where such traditional forms of "abusing the spirit of the promotion" had been designed out of the system.

    In terms of outcome, autoplay makes no difference whatsoever, one is no more likely to win by playing 10000 bets by autoplay than by playing the same 10000 bets without it. There is also the tricky question of PROVING that a player didn't sit there and play the 10000 bets themselves, rather than stick on the autoplay and go watch a film.

    You could of course have the following term:- "only the first 500 bets in any given hour will count towards meeting WR". You could also have a MINIMUM bet term, such as "Only bets greater than €0.99 will count towards WR". Both would be a strong deterrent to the excessive use of autoplay, but without the controversy of confiscating winnings for what is effectively a "spirit of the promotion" issue.

    Anyone who has their winnings voided due to the use of autoplay "not in the spirit of..." as determined by these secret criteria should PAB immediately.

    Anyone who gets paid, and then banned from future promos, for using autoplay, well tough shit - this at least falls within what is expected of an accredited casino.
     
    3 people like this.
  12. Oct 28, 2013
  13. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    It's a bollocks term full stop. I think if they spot a 'smooth' 10k spins with a tiny break say every 500 when autoplay is reset, then it identifies the player isn't actually interested in the game they are playing and are playing percentages with the bonus. it's also worth mentioning the player abusing bonus could programme the autospin 'stop at win greater than xxx' and move to another slot and do the same.

    If games are random and the RTP is 95% then autoplay makes bugger-all difference. I think they are using it in context of AP's who meet WR via autoplay with boni.
     
  14. Oct 28, 2013
  15. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    Let's not get too carried away here, Red Flush have been accredited for years, and also have the same vague bullshit T&C about not using autoplay to meet a WR.

    But yeah, it is absolutely nonsensical IMO, it doesn't affect the payout of the games at all, and surely most players use autoplay almost all the time?

    I know that one of my major reasons for falling out with entire softwares is when they have shitty autoplay configurability.

    On the flip side of that is 3Dice, where you can damn near 'program' the autoplay to do everything for you in 1000 spin blocks without stopping for a goddamn thing, even making choices in bonus rounds for you - and they don't see the need for any such nonsensical T&C.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Oct 28, 2013
  17. Sovietsky

    Sovietsky Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Live
    Location:
    Swe
    Great way to scare off potentially new players.
     
  18. Oct 29, 2013
  19. wintingo

    wintingo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    player experience manager
    Location:
    Tingo Land
    Thanks for the feedback everyone. We are going to be reviewing the wording of this term and will revert back in the coming days.

    I will update this thread as soon as possible.
     
    3 people like this.

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