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Roguish WinPalace bonus T&C - Mistake or not?

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by winbig, Aug 11, 2010.

    Aug 11, 2010
  1. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I was looking at Winpalace's blackjack bonus, and was truly amazed at their terms. At first glance, it's great!

    100% match for BJ? awesome, right?

    25x?? Amazing...

    Err, 2 bullets under the WR term, you'll find this nice little tidbit. Heaven help you if you didn't notice it....

    ...which brings the WR up to an unbelievable 100X. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:


    Don't fall into this trap, folks....maybe it's just a typo? I would really hope so. If it's not an error, then it definitely borders on roguish, imo.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.


    EDIT: This has to be an error. They basically have the same term for the VP bonus, too. The way it's worded, if you play any sort of VP, on the VP specific bonus, it only counts for 25% of the WR.
     
  2. Aug 11, 2010
  3. greasemonkey

    greasemonkey Banned User - flaming

    Occupation:
    gaurd
    Location:
    USA
    Nope. Not a typo. That is correct, it is 100x .
     
  4. Aug 11, 2010
  5. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    No typo and surprisingly GoldRipClub have (E: almost) the same terms..
     
  6. Aug 11, 2010
  7. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    If it is the same, verbatim, we now have further evidence that LosePalace and GoldRipClub are tied together, a fact that is being vehemently denied by them.

    Please copy and paste this if you can.
     
  8. Aug 11, 2010
  9. maphesto

    maphesto Ueber Meister CAG MM webmeister

    Location:
    Sweden
    Yes, it would be pretty useful to have the evidence here.

    I couldn't find it on GVC:s homepage.
     
  10. Aug 11, 2010
  11. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    Well at GVC BJ only counted 10%. But I have never seen any other RTGs have terms like these two. Not even Virtual. Edit: well at least Winpalace has it in their terms and somewhat easy to find whereas GVC dont have it in their T&Cs

    BTW here is the thread about the "10%": http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/casino-complaints-bonus-issues/38241-problem-goldvipcasino.html

    And I think its already well established that they are run by the same people.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
  12. Aug 18, 2010
  13. danielg

    danielg Banned User -violation of forum policies of i-Gami

    Occupation:
    affiliate manager
    Location:
    Cyprus
    Hi,

    Actually this bonus was discussed already. If you'll check you will see it in many RTG brands, some of them are accredited here.

    The bonus was build differently in the past (100% with 60 wagering for all games), but after comparing with other brands and also getting many comments from our players, that they would prefer a bonus that would combine blackjack but it will be also possible to wager faster on slots, we changed the promotion to its current status.


    Kind regards,
    Daniel
     
  14. Aug 18, 2010
  15. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Hi Daniel,

    With all due respect, you're missing the point.

    There's no reason at all, in regards to a game specific bonus, for any casino to state that the WR are, say, 25x; then 3 sentences later state that play on that particular game only counts 25c for every $1 wagered. The roguishness comes into play when it's explained as it is on your site. It's pretty common for someone to see the 25x and assume that is what the complete WR is, and go on from there, only to find out at a later time that their WR is in fact 100x and not 25x.

    And when you combine that with the fact that their winnings will be voided if they try to cash out before meeting the WR, well......

    For example, you have a video poker promotion that's advertised as having a 25x rollover. Then 2 sentences below that, in the same T&C, you state that play on video poker only counts for basically 1/4 of the wagering; which brings the total rollover up to 100x. Why try to pull a fast one on the player that may miss this point? Why not just say that the WR is 100x and be done with it?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but considering that it's a game-specific promotion, I believe most players would see the 25x and assume that the WR are just that. Who would ever think that play on the specific game that the promotion is for would only count for 1/4 of the wagering? I sure wouldn't.
     
    3 people like this.
  16. Aug 18, 2010
  17. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    Winbig - You are 100% correct IMO :) ... Its actually 100x .. Very Contradicting
     
  18. Aug 19, 2010
  19. danielg

    danielg Banned User -violation of forum policies of i-Gami

    Occupation:
    affiliate manager
    Location:
    Cyprus
    Winbig,

    I would agree with you if the *25 wagering was stated in one place and the wagering per games in an other- In that case, yes, it would be missleading.

    But, this is not the case. All the wagering requirement are stated together under the same paragraph and are very clear. When any player checks the WR, he will see the inner requirements as well.

    Regarding the sentence that you've mentioned "winnings will be voided if they try to cash out before meeting the WR" : In RTG software you cannot request cashout before clearing the WR, since they become automatically available for cashout only after the WR are cleared. This sentence is basically meaningless and we intended to delete it few weeks ago - it will be now.

    Regards,
    Daniel
     
  20. Aug 19, 2010
  21. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    :rolleyes:

    I give up. Players know more about it, and can decide for themselves.

    I've never seen a game specific promotion tell you that WR are one thing, then 2 sentences later tell you that they are quadrupled by playing that specific game. Every game specific bonus I've seen at any other casino tells you straight forward what the complete WR are. Whether or not they're on the same page is irrelevant. Be up front about what the total WR are, and you wouldn't have this problem.

    The reason is pretty clear now. Nobody in their right mind would take a bonus that carries 100x WR with it. You're banking on the ones that miss the $1:25c clause, then get tied into the bonus because they started playing before noticing that their playthrough wasn't going down as expected.
     
    3 people like this.
  22. Aug 20, 2010
  23. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    So the WR requirements heave further 'Inner Requirements' - Do these 'Inner Requirements' have further 'Inner Requirements'?

    Seriously Daniel... a WR is a WR and should not have sub terms ... If its a BJ bonus then be upfront at the least - 100x - no time wasted.
     
  24. Aug 20, 2010
  25. funeral979

    funeral979 Senior Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    retail
    Location:
    Texas
    Ive never actually deposited here, but decided to give their promotions a quick once over.

    I don't really see anything tricky here. All casinos that offer bonuses that are specifically tailored to allow blackjack and videopoker.....all allow these games at a reduced rate. Rushmore group quickly come to mind (.33 for each dollar wagered).

    Also, it would be pretty hard to miss this 'clause' as its in the same bullet.
    Are we not nitpicking a little here?
     
  26. Aug 20, 2010
  27. Nate

    Nate Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Monster
    Location:
    Cyberspace
    Uhhhmm no...

    As per Winbigs original post... This was a 100% BJ Bonus... 2 bullet points from the 25x wagering came the rest...

    Why is it difficult for a casino to be upfront from the onset.. i think this is the crux of the post...
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Aug 20, 2010
  29. danielg

    danielg Banned User -violation of forum policies of i-Gami

    Occupation:
    affiliate manager
    Location:
    Cyprus
    I think it would be impossible to miss this term.
    It's not that it's written 25 in one place and then the inner wagering in another. They are exactly in the same place.

    Besides, these promotions are active for half a year without any complaints, which i think proves that it is clearly stated.

    Winbig, the term regarding "withdrawing the winnings before completing the WR" has been corrected.

    Kind regards,
    Daniel
     
  30. Aug 21, 2010
  31. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Yep, nothing more, nothing less.

    And for those that don't know how to do the math, say you deposit $100 and get a $100 bonus to play whatever game that accounts for 1/4 of the wagering.

    The total WR is $20,000. Even with a 98% return (RTP,) you're going to lose $200 in addition to your deposit and bonus. :rolleyes:
     
  32. Aug 21, 2010
  33. funeral979

    funeral979 Senior Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    retail
    Location:
    Texas
    So don't take the bonus. There is nothing rogue about it, the terms are right there....not hidden. You don't have to go to another page or anything...its right there. Nothing vague.

    Vegas Regal has tons of offers in the cashier that are 30x,35x,40x D+B

    All of these bonuses have blackjack count as 10%

    So, if you are a blackjack player you will be wagering 300x D+B and up. How is this any different?

    I understand what you are saying, its a BLACKJACK bonus....meaning blackjack is allowed, unlike a slots bonus, where you are restricted to slots and keno. They are just trying to differentiate. I don't think there is a casino anywhere that will allow bj,vp, at 25x d+b and have them count as 100%.

    Again, im not taking up for the casino, but I think its unfair to call them rogue for something that is made very clear in their terms. Much more alarming and vague is their payout schedule....
     
  34. Aug 21, 2010
  35. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Am I being obscure about this, or something? It's plain and simple, IMO. They're offering a game specific bonus, but instead of telling people the actual WR up front, they instead stick the "it only counts 25c for every $1 wagered" down the page. Same page or not, whatever....that's not the point.

    The facts are here, people can pass their own judgment based on these facts. I'm tired of beating a dead horse, so have fun.

    And FYI, there are many casinos out there that offer these same game specific bonuses, but instead of trying to obscure the WR, they simply raise the WR so players know right away what they are instead of having to read every little t&c.
     
  36. Aug 21, 2010
  37. funeral979

    funeral979 Senior Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    retail
    Location:
    Texas
    If it was a game specific bonus then that would be the only allowable game, no?

    95% of casino bonus offers are either slots bonuses or blackjack bonuses. And 95% of those blackjack bonuses allow slots as well. They are called blackjack bonuses (or table game bonuses).....but this doesn't mean this is the only game(s) you can play.

    If blackjack was the only allowable game then I would understand 100%

    So we agree to disagree...no harm no foul:thumbsup:
     
  38. Aug 21, 2010
  39. Brooklyn

    Brooklyn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Mommy, Make-up Artist, Writer.
    Location:
    On the Hot Mess Express
    I agree with winbig...Why not just say 100x wagering period?
     

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