William Hill pulls out of France

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
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Hell on Earth
Just received this a bit ago.

As a result of changes to French law, from 1st June 2010, William Hill will withdraw all of its casino services for all residents of France (and its overseas territories) for the foreseeable future and will no longer accept new customers resident in France. This includes all of our affiliated brands and affects any customer registered in France, Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana and Réunion.

You will continue to receive any payments in respect of such customers up to and including their activity on 31st May 2010.

Please rest assured that for any customers located outside of these territories we are continuing to operate as normal and as such you will continue to receive payments in respect of their activity.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
What law they are talking about?

A protectionist law passed sone time ago, disputed under EU free movement of trade because online gambling is STILL allowed, provided it is provided by FRENCH operators.

The EU has failed to sort this out, and a recent court case strengthened the ability of states to ban online gambling for consumer protection purposes.
 

Setsuna

Experienced Member
PABnoaccred
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Location
Earth
Like Betfair , Paradise/SportingBet and (quite strangely) Cake Poker already did on us poor french customers. More to come soon, as the hunt for "illegal" websites should start for World Cup.

A protectionist law passed sone time ago, disputed under EU free movement of trade because online gambling is STILL allowed, provided it is provided by FRENCH operators.

The EU has failed to sort this out, and a recent court case strengthened the ability of states to ban online gambling for consumer protection purposes.

Actually, French law allows operators to apply for a license , if they want to operate on french market. They can only offer Poker (Hold'em and Omaha), sports and horse betting (no betting exchange , no terrestrial shops).

Slots and table games are still only reserved to B&M casinos (the families owning the big casino groups in France - Partouche, Barrière and Tranchant are surprisingly very good friends of Mr. Sarkozy :rolleyes: )

RTP is capped to 85% (this is not a typo) - poker is taxed 2% up to 1€ on every pot/game (and according to some people , the tax could be effective PREFLOP, which is - well, stupid) , sports betting is taxed 8.5% and horse betting 15.5% - both of them on player's bets.

Oh, and operators still wishing to operate on the french market will have to wipeout their user database and close all accounts of french players before entering on the market. Interestingly , this not apply to the two state monopolies already existing (FDJ and PMU, which are heavily present on the french advertising market since one year or so - thus giving them quite an advantage)

Basically - they're opening the french market as EU threatened them to do so - just that FDJ and PMU are really, really advantaged.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Good post, Setsuna - you've clearly been following this closely and have picked up some of the interesting - and not altogether equitable - nuances of the new French dispensation:thumbsup:
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
RTP is capped to 85% (this is not a typo) ....

Bit of an aside but I heard recently -- very reliable source -- that German B&Ms often offer only 60% RTP by law. I'm pretty sure this was slots-specific. Apparently the reasoning is they don't want people to "become dependent" on gambling. With RTP like that I'd say they've got the bases covered. :thumbsup:
 

Setsuna

Experienced Member
PABnoaccred
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Location
Earth
Good post, Setsuna - you've clearly been following this closely and have picked up some of the interesting - and not altogether equitable - nuances of the new French dispensation:thumbsup:

Thanks , but I don't have any merit for this - the subject has been heavily discussed on french poker forums for months, about how the law would drastically change the market and how the game would be played due to the extra rake...


Bit of an aside but I heard recently -- very reliable source -- that German B&Ms often offer only 60% RTP by law. I'm pretty sure this was slots-specific. Apparently the reasoning is they don't want people to "become dependent" on gambling. With RTP like that I'd say they've got the bases covered. :thumbsup:

The "risk of dependence" is their justification about the limited RTP. Quite a irrecevable point as FDJ provided bars and pubs for years with an horrendous game - Rapido , a lottery (8/20 + 1/4 matrix ) - draws every five minutes live on a special TV provided by the operator, up to 1000€ bet per ticket .. you can easily guess how this game destroyed people by making them go broke ( 50% RTP won't really help) or fighting over jackpot-winning tickets - all of this while often being drunk , of course.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Looks like BS. RTP has nothing to do with dependence, this is driven by the appeal of the game. The UK lottery has an RTP of 50% or less, but a HUGE jackpot. Far from the government wanting LESS play on this, they are forever relaxing regulations to generate MORE play, and of course, dependency. As soon as takings fall because players get fed up with playing, the operators are allowed to add ever more games and variants to the mix in order to drive sales.

By far the biggest driver of sales is a larger than usual headline jackpot, often called a "rollover". Sometimes, money kept back is injected to give a special enhancement to the jackpot, and advertising is sharply increased, all to generate a surge in sales. On top of all this, we have the ever increasing number of instant scratchcard games.

60% RTP merely allows more profit to be made per bet, and thus they can argue that wagering turnover is relatively low, yet still make substantial profits.

To reduce dependency, the game should be a low variance, high RTP, passer of time, with no really big prizes. No player will get the rush from a big win, and will thus continue to play only when there is nothing better to do.

UK Friut machines had this structure, but the designers cheated by introducing "streak sequences" of many jackpots and large prizes into the game cycle. It was these "streak sequences", rather than the jackpot, that us Fruitie players chased down, and is what often lead to addictions.

Now, we have 18+ roped off areas, larger jackpots, larger stakes, and more Vegas style video slots. RTP is much higher than before, at least on the Vegas style slots, yet amount of play is visibly MUCH less than before.
It is tougher regulation and enforcement of age restrictions, appeal, etc that has lowered play levels. The fruit machines are no longer placed in the same areas as children's games, they must be in a separate area, and this entered only by over 18+. Operators have a duty to monitor these areas, and expel players that cannot prove they are 18+ (I have seen this done).
 

jod5413

Is That Better?
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
I always thought it would be great to have regulation here in the US, but the more I read about regulation overseas, the less appealing it sounds.

The tax rate seems excessive, the RTP is absurdly low, WTH! You have to have Lady Luck actually in your pocket to come out ahead. And, as usual, the rich and powerful call the shots, no?
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Every time politicians get involved in just about anything it turns out to be a horse designed by a committee - a camel.

Wherever you go it's the same, a bunch of lawmakers who know very little about most of the stuff they're legislating or complicating the hell out of, and with personal re-election and party politics foremost in their minds.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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Saltirelandia
... with personal re-election and party politics foremost in their minds.

Don't forget the ever-popular "me get richer" incentive, also a favourite motivator for many a politician.

I do feel that I have to say a word on behalf of the humble camel though: I'd like to see the horse that can carry half a ton of crap across deserts hot enough to melt your teeth without food and water for weeks at a time. An ugly, disagreeable beast to be sure but singular in it's domain and the backbone of much of human history and progress.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Ah, yes - but then you have to ask yourself what was the original goal of the committee?!:D
 
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