William Hill has confiscated my 289$ winnings for no reason!

[Leon_Lilhauge]

THis is very very frustrating! I must have written at least 15 mails, and it is so difficult to recieve an answer from them, and it is always just a copy/paste of the same paragraph:

"The Casino and/or its authorised agent reserve the right to review transaction records and logs, from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. If, upon such review, it appears that end users or any one or combination of them are participating in strategies which the Casino and/or its authorised agent in their sole discretion deem to be abusive, the Casino and/or its authorised agent reserve the right to revoke the entitlement of such end user(s) to the promotion".

I have asked again and again for a concrete explanation, since I simply do not understand what is going on and why my winnings have been taken.

As a new player I purchased 80$ wagered more than I was supposed to on Blackjack and withdrew 369$. However it took a long long time and I was not beeing paid. Then I was asked to send my personal scanned documents for security which I did. I had to send the documents 3 times and wait three days before I finally recieved a confirmation that my account had been verified.

Hi Leon,

Thank you for your documents.

We have sent your original deposit 80usd to your Neteller account.

Your account will remain closed as per our terms and conditions.

"The Casino and/or its authorised agent reserve the right to review transaction records and logs, from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. If, upon such review, it appears that end users or any one or combination of them are participating in strategies which the Casino and/or its authorised agent in their sole discretion deem to be abusive, the Casino and/or its authorised agent reserve the right to revoke the entitlement of such end user(s) to the promotion"

I now understand that they believe that I am a part of some kind of conspiracy, which is crazy cause I do not know what is going on, and all their supporters simply refuse to provide me with concrete information about what I have done wrong. Instead they simply copy/paste the same paragraph in the emails every time without any further explanation.

Are they trying to steal my money or what is happening? As a new player how am I supposed to cheat them. The most weird thing is the fact that William Hill is the biggest bookmaking company in Great Brittain, so why do they want to jeopardize their good reputation (which may be not so good)

I have written so many emails and it feels like they supporters don't care about me at all. I feel like beeing part of "The Process" by Franz Kafka, in which the main character is sentenced without ever being told the reason why. I have just started playing casino and I didn't believe that the casino had these dirty methods to take away money from us....What would you do now if you were me?

 

[frufrugirl]

What do you mean you wagered more than you should have on BJ?
Where you using a bonus?
What were you playing and have you ever been kicked out of another casino?(or banned)
Not trying to be mean but these may give others a clue as to how to help you.

 

[Leon_Lilhauge]

What do you mean you wagered more than you should have on BJ?
Yes I fulfilled the wager requirement playing blackjack:

"To cash out the bonus you must wager an aggregate total of $2,000 for the initial $80 match bonus. See general terms and conditions for eligible games"

"Bets on Roulette, Baccarat, Punto Banco and Craps will not contribute to the bonus turn requirement "

Where you using a bonus?
Yes I was, the 80$ for 80$ welcome bonus

What were you playing and have you ever been kicked out of another casino(or banned)?
No, This is one of the first time I ever play, I have been gambling for aproximately 2 months. That is the reason why I am so shocked, why would one of the biggest casinos cheat me for no reason?

 

[tennis_balls]

a lot of casinos have special rules for players from Denmark. are you using a new computer or did you buy a used one in Denmark?

another possibility is that your name/address match a problem player in their database

 

[Leon_Lilhauge]

Even though that I am from Denmnark, it doesn't say anything in the terms and conditions about special rules for us, what have we done anyway? I hope the casinos don't start blaiming us for the Muhammed drawings too

 

[Leon_Lilhauge]

a lot of casinos have special rules for players from Denmark. are you using a new computer or did you buy a used one in Denmark?

Actually I signed up from my MAC computer at the non downloadable version, but in the downloadable version the bonus system doesn't work, so I tried to download the caisno. However, the computer wouldn't recognize the file, so I went to a friend's house who already has William Hill installed on his computer and I played from there.

I never imagined that it could be a problem, do you seriously think that this is the reason of all the accusations? My friend was not participating at all, he was just watching a movie while I played from his computer. If this is the reason, still what have I done wrong, how could he have heped me, I was just using my own william hill account and my own Neteller account, it had nothing to do with him at all.......

 

[TheGooner]

Generally players are not allowed to have two accounts - for obvious reasons.

When you play online there are lots of small files and cookies that are downloaded onto a computer - these are used by the casino to identify you - and tell them other things like play history and computer defaults.

It is also relatively straight forward for them to see that there is another gambling account in a different name that uses that computer.

You explanation for that makes sense to me - and is certainly plausible ... but ... you can be sure that the casino have not taken the soft option.

The casino appear to have decided that you are actually the same person, opening multiple accounts on the same computer in order to try and get the joining bonus many times over.

YOU ARE NOW SCREWED


Basically - no matter what you say to the casino from now on - you will not get any more cash from them.

MULTIPLE ACCOUNTS - CASE CLOSED as far as the casino is concerned.

 

[Leon_Lilhauge]

The casino appear to have decided that you are actually the same person, opening multiple accounts on the same computer in order to try and get the joining bonus many times over.

That is impossible, cause I've sent them scans of my passport etc. so they cannot claim that I am the same person as my friend, that would be ridiculous.

Basically - no matter what you say to the casino from now on - you will not get any more cash from them.

I see, but they still have no right to confiscate my 289$, I have not breaken the rules, if they want, they can check the IP from which my account was created and they will see that it is actually from my house. I feel really bad about beeing accused of fraud, for me that is a very serious matter and I would like to have the casino understand that it has never been my intention to cheat them or trick them in any way.

Let's say I wanted to cheat them, how would I do it? not fulfilling the wager requirement or playing illegal games would disqualify me anyway.. I don't get it, as a new custumer to their casino and after beeing lucky the first time, there is a good chance that I may return and play alot at their casino, so why would they treat me like this?

 

[soflat]

Let's say I wanted to cheat them, how would I do it? not fulfilling the wager requirement or playing illegal games would disqualify me anyway.. I don't get it, as a new custumer to their casino and after beeing lucky the first time, there is a good chance that I may return and play alot at their casino, so why would they treat me like this?

They've probably seen this hundreds of times: someone from Denmark signs up for an account from the same computer as another person, wins on the bonus and cashes out never to play again. A lot of the time it is the same person. I'm not saying that you fall into that category, but just that your chances of prevailing here are pretty slim given that situation.

Don't play a casino from any computer that has been played on before.

 

[Leon_Lilhauge]

They've probably seen this hundreds of times: someone from Denmark signs up for an account from the same computer as another person, wins on the bonus and cashes out never to play again. A lot of the time it is the same person. I'm not saying that you fall into that category, but just that your chances of prevailing here are pretty slim given that situation.

I did NOT sign up from his computer, I just used it because my MAC does not work with Windows XP programmes. Do you guys really think that it is fair confiscating my money? I have done anything I can, I have verified my identity, and I'd better ask my friend to do that as well.

Since when has it become so that the casinos can treat you however they want to? They don't even have to prove anything, they have refused to tell me the reason WHY my money has been confiscated. At least if they could give me a decent explanation instead of their arrogant paragraph copy/paste unpersonal emails.

I actually started playing casinos because I had heard that most of them could be trusted, then I play William Hill, biggest bookmaker site in England and they fuck me up for no reason.....now I don't know what to think...

 

[frufrugirl]

Will Hill has a good reputation with most of the players here. I understand your frustration but you have to understand you are playin with THEIR software, THEIR match money, and under THEIR terms. You are playing with a computer, and the only way they can id you is through the computer.
They are fully aware of soft ware clashes..thats why they offer a free download cd!!


This is from their t&cs.......................................................................
Each promotion is available only once per end user. The identity of an end user will be determined on the basis of all or any combination of the following: name, mailing address, e-mail address, IP address, credit/charge card number, computer, and any other forms of identification which may be required. Where multiple participation is permitted, the Casino and/or its authorised agent reserve the right to limit the number of bonuses that may be given to any one participant
............................................
Just the computer alone was enough to get you in this case.
If you want to gamble, go for it. Use the accredited casinos on this site..but read the t&cs before you deposit...only use your own computer, read if Denmark is allowed (its not allowed on lots of sites, just like the USA is getting banned from more and more sites..) and I would just ask for a refund of your deposit after once again CALMLY and POLITELY after explaining what has happened if you havent already done it and go somewhere else like the others recommended.
Im sorry you are going through this. Alot of us here have been stung by something we have done regarding t&cs, cashing out ect. We learned from it and the forum is a great way to hear about "what not to do's". Good luck to you!

 

[Rusty]

Yeah but..

I feel bad for you and I think you are probably genuine.
If any casino group thinks that a players identity is questionable then it is in both parties interests to have this clarified before any promotion/bonus cash is placed into an account.
It is simply not good enough for a casino to be happy to recieve deposits unquestioningly and then when by miracle of miracles when some poor sap actualy wins and tries to cash out they begin an invenstigation that would make the Spanish Inquisition look like a Girls night out.
I can not believe that so many of you on this site find it appropriate to excuse William Hills handling of this matter.
Like I say Casino's should verify accounts before deposits can be made or bonuses are awarded or risk being accused of stealing and cheating as they have absolutely no excuse to do otherwise.Oh unless greed constitutes an excuse.
William Hill shame on you.

 

[henryVIII]

I feel bad for you and I think you are probably genuine.
If any casino group thinks that a players identity is questionable then it is in both parties interests to have this clarified before any promotion/bonus cash is placed into an account.
It is simply not good enough for a casino to be happy to recieve deposits unquestioningly and then when by miracle of miracles when some poor sap actualy wins and tries to cash out they begin an invenstigation that would make the Spanish Inquisition look like a Girls night out.
I can not believe that so many of you on this site find it appropriate to excuse William Hills handling of this matter.
Like I say Casino's should verify accounts before deposits can be made or bonuses are awarded or risk being accused of stealing and cheating as they have absolutely no excuse to do otherwise.Oh unless greed constitutes an excuse.
William Hill shame on you.

Totally correct.

The casino was happy for him to risk his money. ONLY when he wants to see it do they tell him there is a problem.

Obviously the casino is at fault. Because of their greed to get people gambling as fast as possible they onbly ID people when they want to leave (which in their greed they are happy to do as slow as possible).

And some people have the nerve to say the player is fraudulent.

Online casinos are just not worth it .... too much deceit time after time after time. And, guess, what, its ALWAYS the players problem.

 

[tennis_balls]

Leon, did you try calling WillHill yet?

maybe you can at learn their reason for not paying though I doubt you'll get paid. it's at least worth a shot.

i believe your story, but unfortunately that's the same sort of story that a multiple account user might use so it's a hard sell to a casino.

while willhill has inconsistent (putting it mildly) customer service, I don't think they would stonewall you like that by phone if you were civil.

 

[soflat]

I can not believe that so many of you on this site find it appropriate to excuse William Hills handling of this matter.
Like I say Casino's should verify accounts before deposits can be made or bonuses are awarded or risk being accused of stealing and cheating as they have absolutely no excuse to do otherwise.Oh unless greed constitutes an excuse.
William Hill shame on you.

Who said it was appropriate? The OP asked what he could do about it and people are just telling him he is screwed. I can sympathize with him, but that won't get him his winnings.

He can ask CM or PAB. I think those are the only options.

 

[Leon_Lilhauge]

Thanks to everybody for taking part of this debate! And @Rusty, thanks for backing me especially up on this, I can assure everybody that I am VERY genuine

Leon, did you try calling WillHill yet?
Actually I tried so many times, but it is impossible to get through. I have this telephone card, and for 100 danish crowns (18$) I get like 12 minutes so something is terribly wrong. The 2 other numbers they have provided me with on their webpage, simply don't work. I have asked them to call me back like 3 or 4 times, but as anything else they don't want to, they simply ignore my requests.

If any casino group thinks that a players identity is questionable then it is in both parties interests to have this clarified before any promotion/bonus cash is placed into an account.
Good Point! I have sent them all my documents to verify my identity, and I am going to ask my friend to do the same, so that they can see that we are not the same person

The casino was happy for him to risk his money. ONLY when he wants to see it do they tell him there is a problem.
Exactly that's what I don't like. I can understand that they get suspicious and that they want to verify my identity. The problem is that they won't tell me what the problem is, and they are so difficult to communicate with cause their supporters don't care about us, and they only answer if they feel like it. I have read other threads about William Hill, and it seems that I don't have to take this personally, they simply don't treat they custumers well....

Actually I have written to them a couple of times if they could please get me the email of one of their floormanagers, so that I at least could get back to the same person every time not having to explain the matter over and over again to new supporters....They have ignored all my requests..

So I was thinking if any of you guys have ever had contact with some kind of manager from William Hill? I am sure he would understand better. I have "pitched a bitch" yesterday, but I'd like to do anything that I can myself to clarify this matter...

 

[tennis_balls]

if you have a mic or head-set you can call via your computer for pennies

 

[TheGooner]

The casino was happy for him to risk his money. ONLY when he wants to see it do they tell him there is a problem.

Actually that's not true is it ?

William Hill were perfectly happy for him to use his MAC and his account and there would not have been an issue at all - no conflicts with name, address, or computer.

But (according to the story) he decides to go and use a friends computer - while his friend watches a movie ...

So I'm guess he didn't reload the software - simply used his friends software with his own account number and that's where the conflict occurs.

Now lets be honest ..

How many times when you hear this story of 1 PC and multiple accounts is the answer simply a scam. I know why the account has been suspended. So does anyone who has been playin online for more than 1 week.


But ...
- I don't like the fact that William Hill do not specify exactly what is wrong.
- Nor do I like the total confiscation of funds.

If this breach (using the same computer as another account) is a material reason to terminate the account then surely William Hill should be refunding the initial deposit or the current balance (whichever is the lessor).

I don't see that they can totally confiscate ALL funds - that is theft.
And that's what I'd support in the PAB.

 

[tennis_balls]

surely William Hill should be refunding the initial deposit or the current balance (whichever is the lessor).

according to the 1st message of this thread, WillHill did refund the initial $80 deposit to his Neteller.

 

[chuchu59]

a lot of casinos have special rules for players from Denmark. are you using a new computer or did you buy a used one in Denmark?

Actually I signed up from my MAC computer at the non downloadable version, but in the downloadable version the bonus system doesn't work, so I tried to download the caisno. However, the computer wouldn't recognize the file, so I went to a friend's house who already has William Hill installed on his computer and I played from there.

I never imagined that it could be a problem, do you seriously think that this is the reason of all the accusations? My friend was not participating at all, he was just watching a movie while I played from his computer. If this is the reason, still what have I done wrong, how could he have heped me, I was just using my own william hill account and my own Neteller account, it had nothing to do with him at all.......

Leon,

Were the bonuses automatically given? The Crypto software should have recognised that the signup bonus was already given to an account within this IP address and would have refused a second bonus. Since it was given, why shouldnt the casino honour the winnings. When I played with William Hill several years ago, both my wife and I were entitled to both the signup and monthly bonuses and whoever claimed it first was automatically credited whereas the other was credited manually after a claim by e-mail.

 

[Leon_Lilhauge]

according to the 1st message of this thread, WillHill did refund the initial $80 deposit to his Neteller
Yes, but they have still confiscated 289$ of the 369$ I cashed out

Were the bonuses automatically given? The Crypto software should have recognised that the signup bonus was already given to an account within this IP address and would have refused a second bonus. Since it was given, why shouldnt the casino honour the winnings.
Yes, the bonus was given automatically in the downloadable casino, as soon as I bougt chips for the 80$ which I had purchased originally from my MAC

He can ask CM or PAB. I think those are the only options.
I have already Pitched a Bitch

if you have a mic or head-set you can call via your computer for pennies
I have SKYPE and I have tried all the numbers, but I can't make it work. The code for England from Denmark is 0044. Could you tell me exactly how to put in the number, and I would call them right away

 

[soflat]

Leon,

Did you use the bonus money to win? In other words did you lose more than the initial deposit amount and start to use the 80 bonus chips before your started winning, or did you make a big bet that included the bonus chips? If you never used the bonus chips to make a bet, then I think they should only confiscate them (the bonus) and allow you your winnings.

Also, did you play the bonus in the same manner as your friend?

 

[Leon_Lilhauge]

Did you use the bonus money to win? In other words did you lose more than the initial deposit amount and start to use the 80 bonus chips before your started winning, or did you make a big bet that included the bonus chips?
Not at all, I was just pretty lucky from the start, playing mostly 5$ and 10$ bets. I am quite sure that I was never under the initial 160$ (80$ purchase + 80$ bonus)

Also, did you play the bonus in the same manner as your friend?
I am not sure. When I started playing BJ he told me about progression play which I have played almost from the start. It may be similar to his way of playing but I am much more willing to take risks than I believe he is, so I would throw a 20$ or 25$ bet out of nowhere, once in a while

 

[frufrugirl]

I have looked everywhere on Willhills t&c's and cannot find the standard - only one ip address allowed(in fact, their t&c's are hard to find if you have not downloaded)...Im glad you have PB'd...I agree with everyone that WillHill should tell you whats up -
Everyone -you all say that depositers should be verified before bonus being given..given that cashing out takes usually 4-24 hrs (or longer)for that reason, wouldnt it take that long for you to get your deposit and bonus verified? Would new or old online players take to waiting that long to get your first signup bonus? Just a thought.

 

[tennis_balls]

I have looked everywhere on Willhills t&c's and cannot find the standard - only one ip address allowed(in fact, their t&c's are hard to find if you have not downloaded

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under #1.....not hidden nor that hard to find