William Hill go even lower on RTP

[OliverCooper]

They've already removed the entertainment part... that's why their tagline is "beyond entertainment" ?

View attachment 175622

hahaha I didn't think it would happen So soon, they don't waste time, they don't even have time to entertain ?

 

[mack341]

Two games I played recently Avalon and thunderstruck 2 at ladbrokes are 96.5% rtp versions according to the help files, I hadn't played ts2 there for ages since they moved to the 94% version, funny enough my progress on unlocking the bonus rounds was still intact. Unlike at virgin where it was reset after a rtp version change.

[I got two very decent recovery wins as well in bonus rounds respectively on both games, whereas 94% games give no encouragement to play in my experience, dead as a doornail]

If coral/ladbrokes are returning to better rtp versions they should make some noise about it.

I think I need to learn how to do that google 'console' trick which shows you the rtp version in live time, anyone got a handy link to that explanation of how you do that... IIRC might be one of Chopley's threads?

 

[thr0b]

The various Gala Coral sites are all creeping back to 96% slots of late. It’s good.

 

[slot_zombie]

The various Gala Coral sites are all creeping back to 96% slots of late. It’s good.

Wonder if they saw a drop off in play on lowered RTP? They wouldn't do anything for the player's benefit I'm sure.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

They put the prags back up a while back. Seems odd they didn’t shout about it.

Mack I believe the rtp check was for play n go slots only??

 

[Mr_Slot5]

The various Gala Coral sites are all creeping back to 96% slots of late. It’s good.

To be fair to them, they were also the only set of casinos I have seen to date try to get people to defend the gambling industry against the draconian rules of the UKGC. 'the player's panel' or something like that was the name of the initiative whereby they wanted slots players to have input...I presume so they could present the findings to the UKGC.

Fair play to them I say.

 

[mack341]

They put the prags back up a while back. Seems odd they didn’t shout about it.

Mack I believe the rtp check was for play n go slots only??

I only tried 2 microgaming titles and was relying on the external help page you access via the game, surprised me and I stuck TS2 cautiously on 30/60p, it played okay although took about 400 spins to get the 1st bonus. Plays very smooth as well so I think Micro must've polished up their html version with updates. As it was very wonky before.

I can't get PnG to play on my old pc unless I use firefox browser so wasn't aware they'd also been changed back to full fat. That would be good news microgaming classics and the PnG catalogue they have back to 96%.

Would beat william hill into a cocked hat, their slots site is pretty useless to me, I can't bring up a full A-Z slots page, and I want to collate a favourites list of 96% games. So dead or alive 2 but not 1.

I'm on there atm, and am going to look for pink elephants [or pk2] as I recall it is still 96%.

 

[justdoit]

To be fair to them, they were also the only set of casinos I have seen to date try to get people to defend the gambling industry against the draconian rules of the UKGC. 'the player's panel' or something like that was the name of the initiative whereby they wanted slots players to have input...I presume so they could present the findings to the UKGC.

Fair play to them I say.

I have account with partycasino for over 4-5 years now, they are same group gala coral ladbrokes, last month I won over 5500 and I was keep wining from small deposit like £100-£200 cash out £2000-£3000 funny they change my lost limit right away £200pm, now they asking more doc if I want bigger loss limit pm, I stop playing there they all ready start sending me emails we dont see you playing other bs, all casinos are the same now when you start wining they find the way to block you from wining

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

I only tried 2 microgaming titles and was relying on the external help page you access via the game, surprised me and I stuck TS2 cautiously on 30/60p, it played okay although took about 400 spins to get the 1st bonus. Plays very smooth as well so I think Micro must've polished up their html version with updates. As it was very wonky before.

I can't get PnG to play on my old pc unless I use firefox browser so wasn't aware they'd also been changed back to full fat. That would be good news microgaming classics and the PnG catalogue they have back to 96%.

Would beat william hill into a cocked hat, their slots site is pretty useless to me, I can't bring up a full A-Z slots page, and I want to collate a favourites list of 96% games. So dead or alive 2 but not 1.

I'm on there atm, and am going to look for pink elephants [or pk2] as I recall it is still 96%.

Play n go haven’t been changed back to 96% they’re still on the 94%

It’s the Pragmatics they’ve changed back.

 

[justdoit]

Play n go haven’t been changed back to 96% they’re still on the 94%

It’s the Pragmatics they’ve changed back.

only popular games like book of dead are 96

 

[TheAddict]

BOD and its lower rtp can fo. Play it when bored with spare change from the poker account at 94% on betfair, 1line/2p, over a peroiod of 3 months, rack up some 300 hours for it to roll in 1x 750xstake and 2x 400stake.
Give it a flutter at WHG with the odd fiver, accumulate no morethan 15 hours , playing 96% 2p/1line, in exchange for 2x 750x and 1x 1000x hits.

Each s**t PnG.

 

[mack341]

Play n go haven’t been changed back to 96% they’re still on the 94%

It’s the Pragmatics they’ve changed back.

Ah sorry I misread the previous post regarding the check only working on PnG, thought it was too good to be true that ladbrokes would bring back 96% on those!

 

[jasonuk]

It might be November, but WH have got their Scrooge hat on already with another round of RTP cuts in the coming weeks... curiously they're not trying to hide it this time so I wonder if WH have been warned for their previous conduct given they are surprisingly candid this time around:

We’re making a few changes to the RTP (return to player) on some slots that you might have recently played.

But don’t worry, you can still enjoy all the fantastic features they have to offer.
Kind Regards,
The William Hill Team

Given 96% was one of the features, no... no I can't enjoy all of the fantastic features ?.

Clicking through and we actually get clear, concise and useful information ? - no broken web of hyperlinks or cryptic "small tweaks" (well almost none - they do say "small changes" in the email title ? ) but a clean table with the current RTP, the "updated" (lowered) RTP, and the date the butchering will occur:

Game Name	Current RTP	Updated RTP	Date of Change
Big Bass Bonanza	94.02%	92%	09/11/2023
John Hunter and the Book of Tut™	96.50%	92.07%	09/11/2023
Gold Digger™	96%	92%	16/11/2023
Scrooge Megaways™	95.98%	92%	16/11/2023
Tempered Steel	94%	90.50%	16/11/2023
Eye of Persia 2	94%	90.50%	16/11/2023
Fishin Frenzy The Big Catch	95.32%	92%	23/11/2023
Eye of Horus	96.31%	92%	23/11/2023
King Kong Cash Go Bananas JPK	93% + JP	92%	30/11/2023
William Hill Megaways™	93.50% + JP	92%	30/11/2023
Hyper Star™	94.10%	92.06%	07/12/2023
25000 Talons	94.03%	92.09%	07/12/2023
Shamrock Holmes Megaways™	94.03%	92.01%	07/12/2023
Book of Oz	96.31%	91.99%	07/12/2023
Luck O' The Irish Fortune Play 2	95.38%	92%	07/12/2023
Fishin Frenzy	96.12%	92%	07/12/2023
Fishin Frenzy Megaways™	95.02%	92%	07/12/2023
The Goonies: Hey You Guys!™	93%	92%	07/12/2023
Chicago Gold	94.20%	92.10%	14/12/2023
Goldaur Guardians	96.36%	92.00%	14/12/2023
7s Deluxe	95.25%	92%	14/12/2023
Bison Rising Megaways™	96.50%	92%	14/12/2023
Eye of Horus Megaways™	95.49%	92%	14/12/2023

Once again, those that haven't been nerfed to 94% previously are going straight to 92% - so more than double the house edge in some cases. I anticipate we'll be getting another list of removals soon enough...

 

[EkJR]

It might be November, but WH have got their Scrooge hat on already with another round of RTP cuts in the coming weeks... curiously they're not trying to hide it this time so I wonder if WH have been warned for their previous conduct given they are surprisingly candid this time around:



Given 96% was one of the features, no... no I can't enjoy all of the fantastic features ?.

Clicking through and we actually get clear, concise and useful information ? - no broken web of hyperlinks or cryptic "small tweaks" but a clean table with the current RTP, the "updated" (lowered) RTP, and the date the butchering will occur:

Game Name	Current RTP	Updated RTP	Date of Change
Big Bass Bonanza	94.02%	92%	09/11/2023
John Hunter and the Book of Tut™	96.50%	92.07%	09/11/2023
Gold Digger™	96%	92%	16/11/2023
Scrooge Megaways™	95.98%	92%	16/11/2023
Tempered Steel	94%	90.50%	16/11/2023
Eye of Persia 2	94%	90.50%	16/11/2023
Fishin Frenzy The Big Catch	95.32%	92%	23/11/2023
Eye of Horus	96.31%	92%	23/11/2023
King Kong Cash Go Bananas JPK	93% + JP	92%	30/11/2023
William Hill Megaways™	93.50% + JP	92%	30/11/2023
Hyper Star™	94.10%	92.06%	07/12/2023
25000 Talons	94.03%	92.09%	07/12/2023
Shamrock Holmes Megaways™	94.03%	92.01%	07/12/2023
Book of Oz	96.31%	91.99%	07/12/2023
Luck O' The Irish Fortune Play 2	95.38%	92%	07/12/2023
Fishin Frenzy	96.12%	92%	07/12/2023
Fishin Frenzy Megaways™	95.02%	92%	07/12/2023
The Goonies: Hey You Guys!™	93%	92%	07/12/2023
Chicago Gold	94.20%	92.10%	14/12/2023
Goldaur Guardians	96.36%	92.00%	14/12/2023
7s Deluxe	95.25%	92%	14/12/2023
Bison Rising Megaways™	96.50%	92%	14/12/2023
Eye of Horus Megaways™	95.49%	92%	14/12/2023

Once again, those that haven't been nerfed to 94% previously are going straight to 92% - so more than double the house edge in some cases. I anticipate we'll be getting another list of removals soon enough...

Holy shit! They wonder why they are losing business to the Crypto sites...jesus

 

[Lemon]

90.50% on a couple of them as well. William Hill really are fucking dreadful aren't they? They must be run purely by bean-counters, constantly looking to cut stuff away to save a few quid.

 

[goatwack]

For standard games, I'd consider anything sub-94% nigh-on unplayable anyway.

Your average lowroller is going to glean diddly-squat from these iterations, and it seems like the concept of low-frills, budget slotting is being ousted, as the games are so High-Variance and sessions pivot towards big hits (unlikely) or shameful, quick bust-outs.

Great going there UKGC, you're fostering a new generation of tilt-gamblers

I'd commend William Hill for their stunning and brave disclosure of these ripoff changes, but with some of these reductions totalling almost four percent, it's clear who they wish to bear the brunt of their financial mishaps. And yet, there'll be those that play these games regardless.

Still not sure as to designers' indifference in all this, for as long as they keep providing mangled versions of their slots, at the request of casinos, then it just becomes a vicious cycle and terminal death loop.

Software developers' games should be released in one state, without the enabled antics that these casinos seem to thrive on presently. Wishful thinking perhaps, but the death rattle for UK slotting's already been sounded

 

[dunover]

It might be November, but WH have got their Scrooge hat on already with another round of RTP cuts in the coming weeks... curiously they're not trying to hide it this time so I wonder if WH have been warned for their previous conduct given they are surprisingly candid this time around:



Given 96% was one of the features, no... no I can't enjoy all of the fantastic features ?.

Clicking through and we actually get clear, concise and useful information ? - no broken web of hyperlinks or cryptic "small tweaks" (well almost none - they do say "small changes" in the email title ? ) but a clean table with the current RTP, the "updated" (lowered) RTP, and the date the butchering will occur:

Game Name	Current RTP	Updated RTP	Date of Change
Big Bass Bonanza	94.02%	92%	09/11/2023
John Hunter and the Book of Tut™	96.50%	92.07%	09/11/2023
Gold Digger™	96%	92%	16/11/2023
Scrooge Megaways™	95.98%	92%	16/11/2023
Tempered Steel	94%	90.50%	16/11/2023
Eye of Persia 2	94%	90.50%	16/11/2023
Fishin Frenzy The Big Catch	95.32%	92%	23/11/2023
Eye of Horus	96.31%	92%	23/11/2023
King Kong Cash Go Bananas JPK	93% + JP	92%	30/11/2023
William Hill Megaways™	93.50% + JP	92%	30/11/2023
Hyper Star™	94.10%	92.06%	07/12/2023
25000 Talons	94.03%	92.09%	07/12/2023
Shamrock Holmes Megaways™	94.03%	92.01%	07/12/2023
Book of Oz	96.31%	91.99%	07/12/2023
Luck O' The Irish Fortune Play 2	95.38%	92%	07/12/2023
Fishin Frenzy	96.12%	92%	07/12/2023
Fishin Frenzy Megaways™	95.02%	92%	07/12/2023
The Goonies: Hey You Guys!™	93%	92%	07/12/2023
Chicago Gold	94.20%	92.10%	14/12/2023
Goldaur Guardians	96.36%	92.00%	14/12/2023
7s Deluxe	95.25%	92%	14/12/2023
Bison Rising Megaways™	96.50%	92%	14/12/2023
Eye of Horus Megaways™	95.49%	92%	14/12/2023

Once again, those that haven't been nerfed to 94% previously are going straight to 92% - so more than double the house edge in some cases. I anticipate we'll be getting another list of removals soon enough...

So inflation at WH has been 100%+ over the last 2 years combined. For the rest of us it's been about 17%. Greedflation.

If they were selling Rolos your tube would have gone from 10 sweets to 5. If it were beer your pint would have become a half or a pint at 2.5% ABV not 5%. If they were selling 'fun' then...

Nevermind Scrooge, Shylock would be ashamed of them.

 

[ultra100]

Holy shit! They wonder why they are losing business to the Crypto sites...jesus

Exactly. +1

 

[mack341]

I wonder how many times they've emailed btg/evolution about the availability of a tighter version of bonanza

 

[jasonuk]

For standard games, I'd consider anything sub-94% nigh-on unplayable anyway.

Your average lowroller is going to glean diddly-squat from these iterations, and it seems like the concept of low-frills, budget slotting is being ousted, as the games are so High-Variance and sessions pivot towards big hits (unlikely) or shameful, quick bust-outs.

It feels like that was part of the plan:

• Convert from reel-based slots (which can be verified by a technically competent end user) to scripted or "scratch card" slots (which cannot)
• Adjust the behaviour however you like - in terms of pumping up the volatility, the frequency of "just missed" actions (because it's no longer reel-based, so it's not considered deceptive under the rules) and other tricks to satisfy the zombie-like salivation for potential.
• Then start cutting the RTP on the sly - as much as we berate the UKGC, that one change has avoided some serious issues... in an alternative universe we would be having those conspiracy-style discussions about how slots have "changed", with little to no hard evidence beyond our wallets draining faster. Especially when operators claim it's the same game... when it isn't

I'd commend William Hill for their stunning and brave disclosure of these ripoff changes, but with some of these reductions totalling almost four percent, it's clear who they wish to bear the brunt of their financial mishaps. And yet, there'll be those that play these games regardless.

I suspect they've been leaned on given the previous updates I received made no mention of RTP except for the occasional stray reference in URL addresses, and one a couple of years back went to a webpage with a labyrinth of links that didn't work.

Software developers' games should be released in one state, without the enabled antics that these casinos seem to thrive on presently. Wishful thinking perhaps, but the death rattle for UK slotting's already been sounded

We used to see providers offer multiple games (clones apart from the RTP) as a way around this in the past - but the UKGC really should have doubled down on the RTP visibility part and made it front and centre on every game...

I wonder how many times they've emailed btg/evolution about the availability of a tighter version of bonanza

It certainly exists - I believe they use 86% for MegaJackpot Megapays and 90% in Germany.

 

[satchnz]

So inflation at WH has been 100%+ over the last 2 years combined. For the rest of us it's been about 17%. Greedflation.

If they were selling Rolos your tube would have gone from 10 sweets to 5. If it were beer your pint would have become a half or a pint at 2.5% ABV not 5%. If they were selling 'fun' then...

Nevermind Scrooge, Shylock would be ashamed of them.

Great analogies. I wish the masses understood this…

 

[nfehily]

The fact is that your average slots punter doesn't know what rtp is. If they did, then this wouldn't be happening at one of the biggest Bookmakers in the uk

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Great analogies. I wish the masses understood this…

I really tried to push this angle on my previous YT channel (and here at CM too) back when VS first started dropping from 96% to 94%, to try and get people to understand that it wasn't just a case of 'I won't notice 2%' but a 50% increase in the house edge with ruinous long term consequences for the player across every measurable metric - and that they should vote with their wallets, not that it was within my power to particularly influence anything, but I did my best.

I showed statistics and everything, 'This is what, on average, it will do your playtime', expected wagering at lower RTPs, and so on.

94% was bad enough, 92%, for online, is larceny, I can walk down to my local pub and play random games on the digicabs set to 94%!

 

[brianmon]

Still not sure as to designers' indifference in all this, for as long as they keep providing mangled versions of their slots, at the request of casinos, then it just becomes a vicious cycle and terminal death loop.

I assume the indifference is because the providers also make more from lower RTP games.
AFAIK, the slot providers are paid a percentage of the house edge. I don't know exactly what that percentage is. But for argument's sake, let's say it's 10%

A 96% game turning over £100,000 at a particular casino would give a profit of £4,000. At 10% commission, the provider would be paid £400, leaving £3,600 for the casino.

A 94% game turning over £100,000 at a particular casino would give a profit of £6,000. At 10% commission, the provider would be paid £600, leaving £5,400 for the casino.

A 92% game turning over £100,000 at a particular casino would give a profit of £8,000. At 10% commission, the provider would be paid £800, leaving £7,200 for the casino.

At 92% that's double the profit for both the casino AND the provider.

 

[dunover]

I really tried to push this angle on my previous YT channel (and here at CM too) back when VS first started dropping from 96% to 94%, to try and get people to understand that it wasn't just a case of 'I won't notice 2%' but a 50% increase in the house edge with ruinous long term consequences for the player across every measurable metric - and that they should vote with their wallets, not that it was within my power to particularly influence anything, but I did my best.

I showed statistics and everything, 'This is what, on average, it will do your playtime', expected wagering at lower RTPs, and so on.

94% was bad enough, 92%, for online, is larceny, I can walk down to my local pub and play random games on the digicabs set to 94%!

Yep. Half the spins on average as the RTP spin calculator demostrates for a 100-credit deposit:



Or in other words 1238 less chances to hit maximum win, features, jackpots etc.