William Hill / Crypto Exposed - Fraudulent claim

[mjones]

Admin note: the following claim is a fraudulent one. Member banned.


A warning to customers of William Hill / Littlewoods / Intercasino etc. The following story is about to break in the UK press. I would advise totalling up how much you lost at Crypto tables and seek legal counsel before the expected rush for Compensation. For those of you with further info, or believe to have been cheated through this scam, email me (anonymously of course) and I will put you in contact with other people who fear they may have been duped by this high tech collusion. Good luck.

=========================================================

An organised gang in England led by a man under investigation by the Cheshire Fraud Squad for defrauding innocent custoners out of thousands of pounds in a long term Holiday company scam, is also under investigation by William Hill and other online gambling companies for laundering this stolen money through their Online poker site.

However, William Hill, and Cryptologic, are powerless to prevent this, and are afraid of acting against the gang for fear of the negative publicity involved in the public's knowledge that thousands of genuine poker players have been conned in a massive fraud involving a handful of people operating thousands of false accounts on williamhillpoker.com. All multi player tournaments, even low limit cash tables, are believed to be the gang's targets.

William Hill's fear of compensation claims that could run into the hundreds of thousands and cripple their good standing in the British gambling community, thus allowing the stand off to continue, and good honest Poker players to be ripped off day in, day out.

So far, William Hill have declined to comment on the case.

 

[Webzcas]

I'm not doubting that you may think this is true. But could you please post a link or name your source for verification especially as you are a new poster.

 

[mary]

These are publically traded companies. Such allegations must be viewed carefully.

To be brutally honest, I fail to see what negative effect his has on players. Crytpologic has paid players before when it was Crypto that was victimized by a hacker, so players won't be out of pocket in the (very unlikely) event that money was collected from Crypto. Anti-collusion software and analysis should have picked up any gaffed play. Are you alleging that the money launderers were using the system to transfer funds to one another via collusive play? Or that they were just present, period?

 

[Webzcas]

Also even if fraudulently obtained money entered the poker room - The Poker Room is liable and not the player - as it is the poker room that has the charge back issued against it and not the player. Hence all online poker rooms and casinos have security departments who are employed specifically to ensure their charge back levels are as low as possible.

The fact of the matter is, you are always going to get people using stolen funds obtained from various means playing online - The onus is on the online gambling operation to ensure this is kept as low as possible - As they are the ones which are stung when a charge back from a bank comes winging it's way - As they have to pay back the money - Legitimate honest players are never affected.

 

[Casinomeister]

...I would advise totalling up how much you lost at Crypto tables and seek legal counsel before the expected rush for Compensation...

How exactly are players affected? In the poker rooms or in the casino? Is this a case of chip dumping, or cheating software? This is a bit too vague.

So far, William Hill have declined to comment on the case.

You weren't trying to email their customer service, were you?

 

[mjones]

How exactly are players affected? In the poker rooms or in the casino? Is this a case of chip dumping, or cheating software? This is a bit too vague.


You weren't trying to email their customer service, were you?

Admin note: the following claim is a fraudulent one. Member banned.

1) You sit down at a ten handed cash or tournament table. 6 of your opponents are actually fake accounts set up using flaws in the William Hill Security System. You're not playing against 9 players, you're playing against one person who runs 6 of the seats (and sees 6 of the hands, and has position 6 times out of ten, etc etc), and three other suckers.
You spend hundreds of dollars entering mutli table tourneys only to find that the accounts that a gang running hundreds of accounts in the same tourney won the tourneys (one was a summer Special £12,000). This is how people are affected, directly, by obvious cheating that Willhill could not stop.


2) That was from a press circular, not my own.

 

[Webzcas]

What Press Circular, which one? Is it online and if so do you have a link that you can post?

To do what you suggest has happened, would not only have to find a flaw in the software security but also implement bots to play in the tourneys. I also cannot believe IF this did happen, that it wasn't picked up pretty much straight away.

Until I see this in print with substantiated evidence backing your claims up, I don't believe it.

 

[mary]

OK, so all the stuff about money laundering isn't important, it's just colorful detail. This isn't really about money laundering; it's about cheating.

What is the core story here is that an organized gang of a few people with multiple accounts is occupying 75% of the seats at tournaments and manipulating results via collusive play.

Such a large manipulation would have been picked up by collusion software I would think.

I just don't find this very credible, to be honest. It has too many red flag details (Theft! money laundering! security holes!) Have you any links or press references for any of this?

 

[silcnlayc]

Very unbeleivable for all the detection tools available to these casinos.

Casino meister, time to take away this posters keyboard

 

[thelawnet]

Very unbeleivable for all the detection tools available to these casinos.

It's not the casinos though..... It's the poker room.

The post is badly titled. I thought it was about Cryptologic casinos.

It's actually about one specific poker site.

Rather sensationalist.

 

[mary]

That would be William Hill's poker site.

Developed well after other poker sites and extensive discussions of the problem of rng hacking and collusion in the industry.

William Hill is also a land operator that has to adhere to land regulations.

Whaddya think? Sore loser cruising for other losers or someone shorting the stocks involved?

 

[thelawnet]

That would be William Hill's poker site.

Developed well after other poker sites and extensive discussions of the problem of rng hacking and collusion in the industry.

William Hill is also a land operator that has to adhere to land regulations.

Whaddya think? Sore loser cruising for other losers or someone shorting the stocks involved?

Sounds like a theory.

The (l)user in question has registered to make this one post.

The story is claimed to be breaking in the UK press, but no newspapers are cited.

The story is in the manner of an article but doesn't appear to have a source. It also doesn't really scan properly suggesting to me it hasn't actually been written by a journalist.

At this point, this post should be treated as untrue, until the anonymous brand new user provides a shred of evidence to support what he is saying or what his sources are.

Libel is not a good thing to do.

 

[Casinomeister]

I "de-sensationalized" the title by removing the word fraud. Using this term is totally unfair since the original poster hasn't given diddly squat on where this information is coming from.

That was from a press circular, not my own.

An organised gang in England led by a man under investigation by the Cheshire Fraud Squad for defrauding innocent custoners out of thousands of pounds in a long term Holiday company scam, is also under investigation by William Hill and other online gambling companies for laundering this stolen money through their Online poker site.

Forgot to spell check. Not an impressive "circular".

William Hill's fear of compensation claims that could run into the hundreds of thousands and cripple their good standing in the British gambling community, thus allowing the stand off to continue, and good honest Poker players to be ripped off day in, day out.

Nice use of slang. Gives it an earthy tone.

Sounds like total BS to me.

mjones - how about posting your full name and phone number in this thread and take personal responsibilty for making a posting like this. Unless you have credible evidence to back this up, I would suggest thinking real hard on what you are doing here.

 

[tantalos]

Noone can enter a forum and post RUMORS (because that's all it is until we get the official source of that post, RUMORS!) doubting in such a way the fairness of somebody's business - especially when it involves Internet Gambling, one of the most developing industries worldwide nowadays.

I have absolutely NO reason to believe this post until further - official - notice!

Im sorry but things like that drive me crazy! William Hill (just as many other Gambling Websites or Land-based casinos) is one of the most respectful companies in this industry, and noone has the right to blaim them without a good reason.

For me ,posts like these should be double and triple-checked before being allowed in here.

Thank you for your patience.

 

[Webzcas]

Noone can enter a forum and post RUMORS (because that's all it is until we get the official source of that post, RUMORS!) doubting in such a way the fairness of somebody's business - especially when it involves Internet Gambling, one of the most developing industries worldwide nowadays.

I have absolutely NO reason to believe this post until further - official - notice!

Im sorry but things like that drive me crazy! William Hill (just as many other Gambling Websites or Land-based casinos) is one of the most respectful companies in this industry, and noone has the right to blaim them without a good reason.

For me ,posts like these should be double and triple-checked before being allowed in here.

Thank you for your patience.

I am guessing, that MJones has lost more than intended at Hills and feels really beat up about it, apportioning the blame on the casino/poker room, rather than actually identifying that they were the person that made the decision to play there or anywhere else online in the first place.

So the post was made out of anger to try and discredit the casino/poker room. A pretty lame attempt and one that has no credibility whatsoever.

I think people who feel obliged to act like this after losing, should examine their gambling habits and read up on responsible gambling. Learning self control is a great start.

Of course I could be wrong, but until I see evidence to back up Mjones's claim then I believe I am rather close to the mark.

 

[jetset]

Unfortunately this is one of the downsides of the Internet message board facility - any Joe can breeze in under the cloak of anonymity and post stuff that is malicious and injurious to companies and is without substance.

Fortunately the folks on this board tend to have a more experienced eye at spotting creeps like this and calling their bluff.

 

[mary]

Cryptologic has $86 million in cash. That's pretty deep pockets and makes them a target for extortion as well as stock manipulation.

If these allegations are true, it would impact all the online gambling companies because if Crypto could be scammed, Party certainly could be too.

Note to public: I don't own stock in any online gambling companies except Wagerworks via IGT.

O, crap, it would whack them too. OK, I've got a dog in this fight after all. I sincerely hope this all turns out to be bs!

 

[Casinomeister]

...I sincerely hope this all turns out to be bs!

- and if it isn't, you know where you heard it first - Casinomeister.


Shameless plug.

Seriously, there should be more information coming forward. Whether this is a scam or not, time will tell. I hope to get some more information soon.

 

[pokeraddict]

Note to public: I don't own stock in any online gambling companies except Wagerworks via IGT.


I own IGT too. I have a feeling they will be selling many video poker and slot machines on the gulf coast soon.....

Back on topic, how does someone at the same location sit in 6 seats? Did they have 6 different dial up connections? You can't sit at the same table from the same IP and in most cases can't even sit at the same table with someone you are associated with (same addess, transfers of money etc.).

I smell a rat.

 

[mary]

I work in an office building that rents to individual businesses. If three of my neighbors all signed up with different ISP's (it's a big city) and used wireless, and I had four computers in my office and made a deal with each of my neighbors, I could probably do four accounts with four different ISP's. And that's just to not bother with getting multiple phone lines installed. We'd be in the same region, but it is a big city.

I'm not an IT person, somebody with more net-fu could come up with a better solution.

 

[solring]

I would advise totalling up how much you lost at Crypto tables and seek legal counsel before the expected rush for Compensation.

Umm...what compensation is there for those of us who are long-time winners at Cryptologic poker tables?

 

[scrollock]

from reading through the thread, i guess the fraud is a combination of chip dumping and collusion ?

i dont how much truth there is in the allegations, however i can confirm one thing, and that is you can open up as many accounts as you want with will hill with very little effort.

i guess the reason that the will hill name is being touted about, rather than the whole of cryptologic is the fact that will hill is the weak link in the cypto chain through the fact they wont subscribe to the ecash system, this means that some transactions are beyond the main crypto securities reach.

like everyone else here, ive played at will hill and then have experienced problems, of which i have then emailed the will hill CS and not got a response, due to being unable to use my account i contacted a friend at will hill who i use to work with when i was there.

he told me to just open up a new account, i didnt even need to change my details, i asked "wont the security close my duplicate account down ?" i was then told that the will hill security department (online casino) is virtually non existant.

the online casino security department is non existant, as is the CS for the simple reason that will hill have a fascination with trying to reduce their wage bill to the minimun possible. the manangement see the internet as a staffless business and treat it as such.

if anyone is money laundering / colluding, then it makes sense to do so at will hill due to it having the laxest security in the whole online casino world.

 

[Casinomeister]

I've submitted a number of pointed questions to the thread creator yesterday evening. It's now early afternoon, and I'm still waiting for a response...

 

[Webzcas]

I've submitted a number of pointed questions to the thread creator yesterday evening. It's now early afternoon, and I'm still waiting for a response...

Bryan I have been doing a little digging at my end on this and I can tell you the people I know in the industry do not know anything about these claims made by MJones . It will be interesting if you actually get a response.

 

[Casinomeister]

Ho hum.

mjones hasn't responded to my emails for the past several days, and he hasn't bothered to check the forum either. I feel it's safe to say that this is just another case of someone abusing the forum. What fun.