1. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies .This website or its third-party tools use cookies, which are necessary to its functioning and required to achieve the purposes illustrated in the cookie policy.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice
  3. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

William Hill / Crypto Exposed - Fraudulent claim

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by mjones, Oct 12, 2005.

    Oct 12, 2005
  1. mjones

    mjones Banned User

    Occupation:
    Journalist
    Location:
    London
    Admin note: the following claim is a fraudulent one. Member banned.


    A warning to customers of William Hill / Littlewoods / Intercasino etc. The following story is about to break in the UK press. I would advise totalling up how much you lost at Crypto tables and seek legal counsel before the expected rush for Compensation. For those of you with further info, or believe to have been cheated through this scam, email me (anonymously of course) and I will put you in contact with other people who fear they may have been duped by this high tech collusion. Good luck.

    =========================================================

    An organised gang in England led by a man under investigation by the Cheshire Fraud Squad for defrauding innocent custoners out of thousands of pounds in a long term Holiday company scam, is also under investigation by William Hill and other online gambling companies for laundering this stolen money through their Online poker site.

    However, William Hill, and Cryptologic, are powerless to prevent this, and are afraid of acting against the gang for fear of the negative publicity involved in the public's knowledge that thousands of genuine poker players have been conned in a massive fraud involving a handful of people operating thousands of false accounts on williamhillpoker.com. All multi player tournaments, even low limit cash tables, are believed to be the gang's targets.

    William Hill's fear of compensation claims that could run into the hundreds of thousands and cripple their good standing in the British gambling community, thus allowing the stand off to continue, and good honest Poker players to be ripped off day in, day out.

    So far, William Hill have declined to comment on the case.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2005
  2. Oct 12, 2005
  3. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    I'm not doubting that you may think this is true. But could you please post a link or name your source for verification especially as you are a new poster.
     
  4. Oct 12, 2005
  5. mary

    mary Dormant account

    These are publically traded companies. Such allegations must be viewed carefully.

    To be brutally honest, I fail to see what negative effect his has on players. Crytpologic has paid players before when it was Crypto that was victimized by a hacker, so players won't be out of pocket in the (very unlikely) event that money was collected from Crypto. Anti-collusion software and analysis should have picked up any gaffed play. Are you alleging that the money launderers were using the system to transfer funds to one another via collusive play? Or that they were just present, period?
     
  6. Oct 12, 2005
  7. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Also even if fraudulently obtained money entered the poker room - The Poker Room is liable and not the player - as it is the poker room that has the charge back issued against it and not the player. Hence all online poker rooms and casinos have security departments who are employed specifically to ensure their charge back levels are as low as possible.

    The fact of the matter is, you are always going to get people using stolen funds obtained from various means playing online - The onus is on the online gambling operation to ensure this is kept as low as possible - As they are the ones which are stung when a charge back from a bank comes winging it's way - As they have to pay back the money - Legitimate honest players are never affected.
     
  8. Oct 12, 2005
  9. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    How exactly are players affected? In the poker rooms or in the casino? Is this a case of chip dumping, or cheating software? This is a bit too vague.

    You weren't trying to email their customer service, were you? :lolup:
     
  10. Oct 12, 2005
  11. mjones

    mjones Banned User

    Occupation:
    Journalist
    Location:
    London
    Admin note: the following claim is a fraudulent one. Member banned.

    1) You sit down at a ten handed cash or tournament table. 6 of your opponents are actually fake accounts set up using flaws in the William Hill Security System. You're not playing against 9 players, you're playing against one person who runs 6 of the seats (and sees 6 of the hands, and has position 6 times out of ten, etc etc), and three other suckers.
    You spend hundreds of dollars entering mutli table tourneys only to find that the accounts that a gang running hundreds of accounts in the same tourney won the tourneys (one was a summer Special £12,000). This is how people are affected, directly, by obvious cheating that Willhill could not stop.


    2) That was from a press circular, not my own.
     
  12. Oct 12, 2005
  13. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    What Press Circular, which one? Is it online and if so do you have a link that you can post?

    To do what you suggest has happened, would not only have to find a flaw in the software security but also implement bots to play in the tourneys. I also cannot believe IF this did happen, that it wasn't picked up pretty much straight away.

    Until I see this in print with substantiated evidence backing your claims up, I don't believe it.
     
  14. Oct 12, 2005
  15. mary

    mary Dormant account

    OK, so all the stuff about money laundering isn't important, it's just colorful detail. This isn't really about money laundering; it's about cheating.

    What is the core story here is that an organized gang of a few people with multiple accounts is occupying 75% of the seats at tournaments and manipulating results via collusive play.

    Such a large manipulation would have been picked up by collusion software I would think.

    I just don't find this very credible, to be honest. It has too many red flag details (Theft! money laundering! security holes!) Have you any links or press references for any of this?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2005
  16. Oct 12, 2005
  17. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Very unbeleivable for all the detection tools available to these casinos.:confused:

    Casino meister, time to take away this posters keyboard :lolup:
     
  18. Oct 12, 2005
  19. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    It's not the casinos though..... It's the poker room.

    The post is badly titled. I thought it was about Cryptologic casinos.

    It's actually about one specific poker site.

    Rather sensationalist.
     
  20. Oct 12, 2005
  21. mary

    mary Dormant account

    That would be William Hill's poker site.

    Developed well after other poker sites and extensive discussions of the problem of rng hacking and collusion in the industry.

    William Hill is also a land operator that has to adhere to land regulations.

    Whaddya think? Sore loser cruising for other losers or someone shorting the stocks involved?
     
  22. Oct 12, 2005
  23. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    Sounds like a theory.

    The (l)user in question has registered to make this one post.

    The story is claimed to be breaking in the UK press, but no newspapers are cited.

    The story is in the manner of an article but doesn't appear to have a source. It also doesn't really scan properly suggesting to me it hasn't actually been written by a journalist.

    At this point, this post should be treated as untrue, until the anonymous brand new user provides a shred of evidence to support what he is saying or what his sources are.

    Libel is not a good thing to do.
     
  24. Oct 12, 2005
  25. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I "de-sensationalized" the title by removing the word fraud. Using this term is totally unfair since the original poster hasn't given diddly squat on where this information is coming from.

    An organised gang in England led by a man under investigation by the Cheshire Fraud Squad for defrauding innocent custoners out of thousands of pounds in a long term Holiday company scam, is also under investigation by William Hill and other online gambling companies for laundering this stolen money through their Online poker site.

    Forgot to spell check. Not an impressive "circular".

    William Hill's fear of compensation claims that could run into the hundreds of thousands and cripple their good standing in the British gambling community, thus allowing the stand off to continue, and good honest Poker players to be ripped off day in, day out.

    Nice use of slang. Gives it an earthy tone.

    Sounds like total BS to me.

    mjones - how about posting your full name and phone number in this thread and take personal responsibilty for making a posting like this. Unless you have credible evidence to back this up, I would suggest thinking real hard on what you are doing here.
     
  26. Oct 13, 2005
  27. tantalos

    tantalos Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Here and There
    Noone can enter a forum and post RUMORS (because that's all it is until we get the official source of that post, RUMORS!) doubting in such a way the fairness of somebody's business - especially when it involves Internet Gambling, one of the most developing industries worldwide nowadays.

    I have absolutely NO reason to believe this post until further - official - notice!

    Im sorry but things like that drive me crazy! William Hill (just as many other Gambling Websites or Land-based casinos) is one of the most respectful companies in this industry, and noone has the right to blaim them without a good reason.

    For me ,posts like these should be double and triple-checked before being allowed in here.

    Thank you for your patience.
     
  28. Oct 13, 2005
  29. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming! Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    I am guessing, that MJones has lost more than intended at Hills and feels really beat up about it, apportioning the blame on the casino/poker room, rather than actually identifying that they were the person that made the decision to play there or anywhere else online in the first place.

    So the post was made out of anger to try and discredit the casino/poker room. A pretty lame attempt and one that has no credibility whatsoever.

    I think people who feel obliged to act like this after losing, should examine their gambling habits and read up on responsible gambling. Learning self control is a great start.

    Of course I could be wrong, but until I see evidence to back up Mjones's claim then I believe I am rather close to the mark.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Oct 13, 2005
  31. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Unfortunately this is one of the downsides of the Internet message board facility - any Joe can breeze in under the cloak of anonymity and post stuff that is malicious and injurious to companies and is without substance.

    Fortunately the folks on this board tend to have a more experienced eye at spotting creeps like this and calling their bluff.
     
  32. Oct 13, 2005
  33. mary

    mary Dormant account

    Cryptologic has $86 million in cash. That's pretty deep pockets and makes them a target for extortion as well as stock manipulation.

    If these allegations are true, it would impact all the online gambling companies because if Crypto could be scammed, Party certainly could be too.

    Note to public: I don't own stock in any online gambling companies except Wagerworks via IGT.

    O, crap, it would whack them too. OK, I've got a dog in this fight after all. I sincerely hope this all turns out to be bs!
     
  34. Oct 13, 2005
  35. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    - and if it isn't, you know where you heard it first - Casinomeister.


    Shameless plug. :D

    Seriously, there should be more information coming forward. Whether this is a scam or not, time will tell. I hope to get some more information soon.
     
  36. Oct 13, 2005
  37. pokeraddict

    pokeraddict Webmaster

    Occupation:
    Pro Poker Player
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Note to public: I don't own stock in any online gambling companies except Wagerworks via IGT.


    I own IGT too. I have a feeling they will be selling many video poker and slot machines on the gulf coast soon.....

    Back on topic, how does someone at the same location sit in 6 seats? Did they have 6 different dial up connections? You can't sit at the same table from the same IP and in most cases can't even sit at the same table with someone you are associated with (same addess, transfers of money etc.).

    I smell a rat.
     
  38. Oct 13, 2005
  39. mary

    mary Dormant account

    I work in an office building that rents to individual businesses. If three of my neighbors all signed up with different ISP's (it's a big city) and used wireless, and I had four computers in my office and made a deal with each of my neighbors, I could probably do four accounts with four different ISP's. And that's just to not bother with getting multiple phone lines installed. We'd be in the same region, but it is a big city.

    I'm not an IT person, somebody with more net-fu could come up with a better solution.
     

Share This Page