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WillHill Slot RTP

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by BeardyGuts, Oct 22, 2013.

    Oct 22, 2013
  1. BeardyGuts

    BeardyGuts Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Projects
    Location:
    UK
    Received this interesting email from William Hill this morning. I have to say after playing there at the weekend i now realise why my money dissapeared so bloody quickly. as i am not a math genius i am a bit confused why the RTP goes down significantly when the jackpot is greater than 30k..

    WillHill Slot RTP: RTP WILL HILL VEGAS.JPG,Oct 22, 2013
     
    3 people like this.
  2. Oct 22, 2013
  3. lotusch

    lotusch Noob Webby webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Fraud & Underwriting Team VRP / YapStone
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    This is the first time I ever see the RTP figures of those slots on William Hill.
    And I am shocked but not surprised to see how low they are really.
    Now I also understand why bankroll after bankroll got drained without a single bonus or decent win.
    So glad I closed my account with them a few months ago.

    And what the heck is it with those jackpots indeed.
    Most jackpots are always over 30k for a long long time and this changes the RTP drasticly as it seems in the casino's favour.

    Such a shame as I really like some of their slots but when they don't pay the fun is over soon.

    What a ridiculous low RTP figures... :eek:
     
  4. Oct 22, 2013
  5. BeardyGuts

    BeardyGuts Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Projects
    Location:
    UK
    Yeah i always guessed they were on the low side to be honest, i would imagine the vast majority of slot players on Will Hill are probably spill over from the sports betting side looking for 15mins of fun rather than someone looking for slots to begin with. But i was very surprised as to how low they actually were like you.

    Still mystified as to why this 30k jackpot appears to be a magic number when it comes to rtp....would be very interested if anybody knows why this happens?
     
  6. Oct 22, 2013
  7. chris87

    chris87 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Run a bar
    Location:
    UK
    Unfortunately I can't answer the question, but I can say that my experience in playing slots at William Hill's is the worst experience I've ever had playing slots on line at many casinos for years.

    As people know, you get dead spells but then things pick up after a while. Well, not in my experience with WH. A costly lesson and £4k down I gave up and closed my account.

    This manipulation of RTP percentages in my view is totally unfair and surely puts to bed the theory that all play is random?
     
  8. Oct 22, 2013
  9. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I don't recognise any of those slot's names - anyone know which software provider they are from?

    I agree most of those RTPs look appallingly bad for online slots, and I'm as mystified as everyone else as to why the RTP should suddenly go down with the jackpot gets to 30K - I would have though it would go UP as the jackpot gets bigger! :confused:

    KK
     
  10. Oct 22, 2013
  11. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
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    Location:
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    I think that many of them are created by Ash Gaming, a company owned by Playtech (usually pretty cool games).

    Like for example The Glass Slipper, Angel or Devil and the The Winnings of Oz - games you also will find in casinos like Betsson and CasinoEuro.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Oct 22, 2013
  13. lotusch

    lotusch Noob Webby webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Fraud & Underwriting Team VRP / YapStone
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    They are Ash Gaming indeed and seriously their slots are good fun...
    But the payouts on WH on these slots is extremely bad...
    I found bet365 has a few and played them there and they seemed a lot looser to me then ever on WH...
    Just my 2 cents...
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Oct 22, 2013
  15. Sk0t

    Sk0t Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    it manager
    Location:
    Denmark
    At Maria Casino (unibet branch) they have leprechaun's Luck from Ash gaming.

    However, it has no progressive jackpot, and states an rtp of 96.5% in the helpfile.

    I tend to believe them, as I have had quite a few nice wins despite limited playtime - the slot is rather fun too, due to frequent bonus rounds (or maybe I just had above average luck) :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  16. Oct 22, 2013
  17. tryme

    tryme Experienced Member PABnononaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Why Do People Always Ask That
    Location:
    Kent, UK
    I'm surprised at the low RTPs for some of these games too. I kill it on Adventures in Wonderland every time I play it (although not, admittedly, at William Hill). That's a very, very generous slot - certainly not 92.41% return.
     
  18. Oct 22, 2013
  19. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
  20. Oct 22, 2013
  21. brianmon

    brianmon Meister Member webby mm4

    Occupation:
    self-employed
    Location:
    uk
    If slots work from a RNG, how will they actually change the RTP? Change the reel strip layout?
     
  22. Oct 23, 2013
  23. zreb

    zreb Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    canada
    I think there is some confusion here. It probably doesn't help that OP didn't include the explanatory paragraph that came with the email:

    "From 28/10/2013 we will be improving the way we manage our Jackpot Contributions for the Vegas Slots listed below. This will have an effect on the overall RTP % dependent on the Jackpot size. Please note the base game RTP % will remain exactly the same, only the jackpot contributions will change. For you as a player this means that a sizeable jackpot will always be available on Vegas and when it has been won it will be replenished more quickly allowing you to continue playing your favourite games with the chance to win one of our many amazing jackpots!"

    So what it sounds like this means, if I'm reading it correctly, is that the game payouts haven't really changed. It just means that, when the jackpot is under 30k, WH will put more money into the jackpot from each spin you play. After 30k, they'll put in less. Due to how the math works out, this means that the overall RTP will remain the same (according to William Hill at least, those are some conveniently rounded differences, I'm not sure we have all the info here.)

    Again, if I'm reading this correctly, this will not affect your expected payouts for a particular sized jackpot. It simply means that the jackpot will climb faster at first, and slower once it reaches the point.

    That might not be a terrible idea, since who wants to play a jackpot slot when the value is low? On the other hand, you won't really see many jackpots breaking far past their average value. Beneficial for people who play slots at random, bad for people who try to hit big jackpots.

    Also, if you want a lot of playtime for your money, you should avoid most jackpots in general, though there are some exceptions.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Oct 23, 2013
  25. BeardyGuts

    BeardyGuts Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Projects
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for posting the additional text just read the start and then looked at the table. my bad.

    Unless i am mistaken though if it is the way you say then wouldn't the rtp be the other way around? If more of your wager is being siphoned off for the jackpot when the jackpot is low wouldn't it mean your rtp should lower when <30k rather than higher...
     
  26. Oct 23, 2013
  27. akrus88

    akrus88 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Finland
    I was wondering exactly the same. Might there be just some typo somewhere. Since that table really does not make any sence.
     
  28. Oct 23, 2013
  29. zreb

    zreb Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    canada
    Think of it this way, the RTP listed isn't really "return to you, personally, at this time." It's "return to all players, eventually."

    For example, say a slot is listed as 93% rtp, with 90% going to the base return, and 3% going to a jackpot contribution. The 3% doesn't really effect you very much at this moment. You're basically playing a 90% rtp game with an additional shot at a jackpot. The 3% just determines how fast the jackpot will grow, and on average how big it will get before someone hits it.

    This means your real expected return at the moment you play is 90% + (jackpot size)*(chance of hitting jackpot). As the jackpot size grows, so will your personal expected return when you play it. However, when the jackpot gets large, William Hill will decrease the jackpot contribution, which is why the listed "rtp," the return to all players, decreases when the jackpot is large.

    William Hill doesn't count the current jackpot value as part of the rtp, because from their perspective, that's essentially money that's already been paid out to players, even though they hold it until someone actually hits it.

    (Note: the chance of hitting the jackpot should be constant for the vast majority of slots, especially reputable ones. It may be theoretically possible to alter the jackpot chance based on its current size, presuming it's either paid randomly or the reels are variably weighted. One example that does not work like this is the RTG slot Spirit of the Inca, which is guaranteed to pay out by a certain time, so the chance of hitting actually increases as the jackpot value goes up. I don't know if any work the opposite way, actually decreasing in chance as the value goes up.)
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Oct 23, 2013
  31. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    The Jackpot RTP is confusing. Zreb has a good point but I would have expected it to increase as the jackpot increases.

    Regards general RTPs: A software provider will usually get a licence for a game based on an RTP range. You often see IGT slots state a range in fact. That gives them flexibility to roll out different versions as some casinos will only take a game within a certain range and not necessarily the same range as the next casino wants.

    Some providers like Microgaming, Novomatic and Playtech seem to roll out a game with the same RTP on their bespoke software platforms but stand-alone games such as those from Ash, IGT etc tend to fluctuate more from provider to provider.

    The games at Will Hill above seem to pre-date the Playtech purchase of Ash Gaming fwiw.
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Oct 26, 2013
  33. catapultaudio

    catapultaudio Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Computer Programmer
    Location:
    Leeds, UK
    I recognise quite a few of those slot names from the games available in William Hill shops on the FOBT machines. I'd wager that the RTP in store is lower than that offered on-line, although I've not actually checked. I have played the games in store however and been totally blown away at just how many dead spins they can chuck out without anything more than a 1-3x stake win inbetween. Really disappointing as being able to get your winnings straight away is a massive attraction, but it's useless when the games themselves are beyond tight.
     
  34. Oct 26, 2013
  35. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Ladbrokes used to allow you to play online and collect your winnings from their shops immediately. William Hill didn't at the time but they may now and if not, Laddies might still do that....worth having a look possibly.
     
  36. Oct 26, 2013
  37. 007sam

    007sam Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Swinger
    Location:
    uk - NorthWest
    Was talking to lady in lads about the shop machines the other day. She say that they used have big winners of 1--6 grand on the slots but over last year they lucky get a £600 ticket......
     
  38. Oct 26, 2013
  39. Andy Walker

    Andy Walker Full Member

    Occupation:
    Tax Payer
    Location:
    UK
    Ladbrokes paying out immediately is sadly a distant past, the shop workers will routinely say they don’t have enough cash when you win a large amount and will ask you to come back the next day.

    You are then met with the other shift who will try the same thing, they do PAY I’m not saying that but when you are standing there while they phone other branches asking if they have “spare money” it does make you worry a little.
     

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