Wiccan VS Slotocash/Desert Nights

Wiccan

Banned User - player fraud
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
USA
I would be careful depositing at these casinos. I signed up at Desert Nights and all was good at first. Then I had done 10 transactions but was informed by my financial institute that there were 15 charges done. Every time I would make a deposit int the cashier I would get a 000034 unknown error or page cant be displayed and have to refresh page. I would go to chat everytime and all they would say is try again in a hour. So I contacted chat about my charges and sent over a copy of my statement showing the 15 charges and was told by Tiffany someone would get back to me in a few hours. Well heard nothing and contacted them again in chat and told them my bank could speak to them on a 3 way call and give them the transaction numbers so that they could take care of this I was told no need. A day later Anna calls me and tells me no problem charges will be returned that day and no worries. And gives me 30.00 in free play. Well make a long story short I hear nothing and decide to post my grip on there facebook page. A few hours later my posts are gone and am blocked from there page and cant log into my casino account I go to chat and here is were I am threatened.


Dan: Welcome to Casino Support. My name is Dan. How may I assist you today?
you: sorry lost connection
you: why cant i log into casino
Dan: May I please have your account username (login) or email address?
you: wiccan
you: oh by the way here this is for your info
you: How do I stop people from posting on my timeline? To prevent your friends from posting to your timeline: Open the account dropdown menu in the top right corner of Facebook and click Privacy Settings Find the Timeline and Tagging section and click Edit Settings From the dropdown menu next to Who can post on your timeline choose No One Note: Your friends will still be able to comment on posts they can see, including posts on your timeline. If you want to restrict certain people from posting to your timeline and commenting on posts from others, you need to also limit them from seeing friends' posts on your timeline.
Dan: one moment please
you: and if you look at the pic I sent it shows what i posted and its no where on time line now
you: even has time and wherre on timeline i posted it
you: u all are to funny
Dan: I'm sorry Mark but really I can't help you with Facebook
Dan: You should write to them
Dan: Since they put the block
you: i did and they sent this
you: Based on the privacy settings of the person you're trying to contact, this message could not be delivered. Try sending them a Friend Request, wait until they accept it, and then try sending your message again.
Dan: Mark, I'm not dealing with such stuff
you: whatever no biggie why cant i sign into casoino
you: says that I am not allowed
you: can we deal with that
Dan: For security reasons you are not allowed to enter your casino account
you: I had no problem earlier
you: anna even gave me 30.00 in chips
Dan: That's not the point Mark,I wish to inform that your situation is very serious
you: she just said that the credit card feature would be missing till they put it back
you: weird I was able to sign in not less than an hour ago
Dan: Until the issue will be solved your account will reamin blocked
you: and who blocked it
you: cause james is sleeping right
Dan: the account will remain closed until the issue is fixed. And if we will refund the deposits your account will be closed and never for reopen
Dan: This is a Management decision and it is Final.
you: Oh really ok I tried I was willing to wait
you: no problem
Dan: What Happened Mark?
Dan: Do you actualy know how serious is your problem?
you: fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me
Dan: Do you know if someone is disputing transactions with us he can go to jail?
you: I know we have transaction numbers showing fifteen charges when only 10 were suppose to be done
Dan: Mark, Stop.
you: and I know that anna said yes she see them also
Dan: I told you to wait
Dan: Until James will come
you: wait it doesnt matter my account is closedc regardless
Dan: Yes it is closed
you: thats what you said even if you all return the double charges
Dan: For your own security
you: its closed for good
you: and never for reopen
Dan: Mark, what happened? we agreed that you will wait?
you: yes
you: I was but now you are telling me that even when you return the double charges that was a mistake on your end my acccount is closed and will never be reopend
you: well since I cant have an account ever I might as well get all charges back then
Dan: ok Mark
you: and have my bank do it
Dan: You are forcing me to take now legal actions
Dan: Let me explain how we proceed in these cases
you: do it and explain 10 charges turning into 15
Dan: Mark listen
Dan: don't make me a fool
Dan: and listen good please
you: I'm not you are trying to fool me
you: I'm listening
you: head to screen
Dan: Mark, when someone is disputing or just threat us with a chargeback wi immediately close account and all the personal details are passed to a global data base. A negative data base which affect your account, and your future on gambling sites. Usually we put a note on your credentials that for fraudulent activities we closed your account and the next casino you will register will see this note and will not allow you to play. After we take all the chats and phone conversation and attach to a file which we send to your bank as a proof of your ilegal actions. You can have real troubles with your credit bank.
Dan: We also send a request to your local police and local debt agency to recover all the amount which you have been refunded.
Dan: And we make sure that the full amount is recovered,
you: Ok and when they can show you 15 transaction numbers for 10 charges what does that do
Dan: i told you twice today that you will receive the money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you: and as far as banning me please I am a 10yr member of 3 casinos
Dan: Believe me Mark, if we bann we bann for life
you: and you also said my account will be closed forever even when I get the double charges back
you: is that ban forever
you: or life I should say
Dan: For the moment no
you: u just said
Dan: But if you will continue threatning us you will need to accept the consequences.
Dan: Mark, I'm trying to help you but you are not cooperative.
you: I didnt threaten once
Dan: Mark, I told you to wait
Dan: why you came back?
Dan: to start to argue?
Dan: why?
you: Dan: the account will remain closed until the issue is fixed. And if we will refund the deposits your account will be closed and never for reopen Dan: This is a Management decision and it is Final.
you: thats what you said to me read it
Dan: HYes
Dan: COrrect
you: so its closed forever
Dan: not now Mark
you: your confusing me
Dan: Are you drunk Mark<
you: no
you: read it
you: account will be closed and never for reopen
Dan: will be
Dan: correct
Dan: not now
Dan: it is just deactivated
Dan: but not closed forever
you: you didnt say tha
you: t
you: anywhere in this chat
Dan: Now you know.
Dan: will you come back again in 30 minutes to ask something about facebook or any kind of issues that James will help you tommorow
you: well expect me to read what you are thinking I just see what you aare typing could have been more clear
you: nope
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to [email protected] at the end of your chat.
you: have a good nite
Dan: Will you be patient until James will write or call you?
Dan: Thank you
you: till tomarrow I said
you: I say what I mean
Dan: Have a pleasant time today


Needless to say still have heard nothing

Well I have even posted a screen shot of the block they did to me on there facebook page.
facebookblk.jpg
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
didnt mean to didnt know were to post this

You've been a member 5 years and you "didn't know where to post this"?

Sorry, but I'm calling BS. You just wanted to get extra attention for your "plight" to force the casinos hand.

Sounds like you have threatened chargebacks, or you have actually instigated them already. Both of these will get you exactly nowhere here at CM.....to the point where your membership can be in jeopardy.

FWIW you are going about your problem exactly the wrong way....and you know that being around as long as you have.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Paranoid overreaction.

This starts because for some reason 15 charges were made for 10 deposits. The fault is either their end, or with their processors. When you ask for the matter to be investigated, they close ranks and accuse you of fraud and threaten to put you in jail (an empty threat, actually. The LAST thing they are going to do is inform your local police that you have tried to claim back charges from an online casino). Obviously, they have to lock your account whilst this is being looked into to stop the problem being compounded by even further failed deposits. Rather than tell you this, they indicate your account is locked because you have shown an intent to defraud them. This just escalates the situation to one where you are far more likely to take the formal route of disputing the charges with your bank.

From the chat, it seems they want to deal with this internally by returning just the additional charges, but they have an odd way of putting this over to you. Why the hell would they even consider a 3 way conference call with your bank!!! This would only make the bank suspicious of all 15 charges, and the last thing they want is the bank digging deeply enough to expose their processor.

Lastly, they say that if they do agree to refund the extra charges, they will do so in "bad spirit" by giving you a life ban and listing you as a fraud on global databases.

This attitude is going to bite them in the ass, as it will encourage other players into believing that casinos are not prepared to deal with such issues internally, giving players the option of eating the loss, or disputing the charges. It seems casinos now expect US players to suffer the odd "theft" by processors as the penalty of playing online, and in order to continue to play online, to NOT make any attempt to retrieve the misapplied charges outside of dealing direct with the casino.

They need a non confrontational approach, one that reassures players that the casino will take full ownership of the problem, and that the player will get what is due without having to involve their card issuers.

It is not a sign if them sinking, but one of paranoia where they believe EVERY time a US player asks for an investigation into charges that didn't end up being credited to their casino accounts, it is the prelude to a fraud attempt by that player.


Had their CS not said "try again in an hour", which is the WORST advice possible in such a situation, there would only have been ONE extra charge.

The correct procedure is NOT to try again until you have managed to show that the charge was not taken from the card. Where the charge does show as having been taken, it is down to the casino to find it, pull it in, and credit it to the players account. Until such time as this has been done, or the charge has dropped rather than having been fully charged to the card, the player should NOT make any further deposits to the casino.

I have suffered the same bad advice from CS over Neteller deposits that throw an error. Although the screen says "try again", and CS says the charge failed and to try again. I FIRST log into Neteller to see whether the deposit has been taken out, and if so, it becomes a problem for the casino to find the deposit and pull it through to my casino account.

US players should be equally paranoid when this happens, and not make any further attempt to deposit until they have managed to determine what happened, and have any money left in limbo returned either to the source, or to their casino account.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
@Wiccan: I'm going to suspend your posting rights until you have had a chance to (re)read our Posting Rules. Please pay particular note to the bit about "cross posting". Send me a Private Message (Link Outdated / Removed) when you're read and understood them. We'll take things from there.
 

Brooklyn

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Location
On the Hot Mess Express
Someone should have told them to seek out that ice berg before they left. :oops:

I don't know wtf you wrote cuz my eyes started to bleed about three lines in.

Can someone break it down for me?
 

JAMES50

Dormant Account
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Location
Florida
Wiccan you are haveing a bad day..Banned from a casino and barred from posting here.... Sorry for your trouble :confused:
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Paranoid overreaction.

This starts because for some reason 15 charges were made for 10 deposits. The fault is either their end, or with their processors. When you ask for the matter to be investigated, they close ranks and accuse you of fraud and threaten to put you in jail (an empty threat, actually. The LAST thing they are going to do is inform your local police that you have tried to claim back charges from an online casino). Obviously, they have to lock your account whilst this is being looked into to stop the problem being compounded by even further failed deposits. Rather than tell you this, they indicate your account is locked because you have shown an intent to defraud them. This just escalates the situation to one where you are far more likely to take the formal route of disputing the charges with your bank.

From the chat, it seems they want to deal with this internally by returning just the additional charges, but they have an odd way of putting this over to you. Why the hell would they even consider a 3 way conference call with your bank!!! This would only make the bank suspicious of all 15 charges, and the last thing they want is the bank digging deeply enough to expose their processor.

Lastly, they say that if they do agree to refund the extra charges, they will do so in "bad spirit" by giving you a life ban and listing you as a fraud on global databases.

This attitude is going to bite them in the ass, as it will encourage other players into believing that casinos are not prepared to deal with such issues internally, giving players the option of eating the loss, or disputing the charges. It seems casinos now expect US players to suffer the odd "theft" by processors as the penalty of playing online, and in order to continue to play online, to NOT make any attempt to retrieve the misapplied charges outside of dealing direct with the casino.

They need a non confrontational approach, one that reassures players that the casino will take full ownership of the problem, and that the player will get what is due without having to involve their card issuers.

It is not a sign if them sinking, but one of paranoia where they believe EVERY time a US player asks for an investigation into charges that didn't end up being credited to their casino accounts, it is the prelude to a fraud attempt by that player.


Had their CS not said "try again in an hour", which is the WORST advice possible in such a situation, there would only have been ONE extra charge.

The correct procedure is NOT to try again until you have managed to show that the charge was not taken from the card. Where the charge does show as having been taken, it is down to the casino to find it, pull it in, and credit it to the players account. Until such time as this has been done, or the charge has dropped rather than having been fully charged to the card, the player should NOT make any further deposits to the casino.

I have suffered the same bad advice from CS over Neteller deposits that throw an error. Although the screen says "try again", and CS says the charge failed and to try again. I FIRST log into Neteller to see whether the deposit has been taken out, and if so, it becomes a problem for the casino to find the deposit and pull it through to my casino account.

US players should be equally paranoid when this happens, and not make any further attempt to deposit until they have managed to determine what happened, and have any money left in limbo returned either to the source, or to their casino account.


FFS vinyl. :rolleyes:

The casino AGREED to refund the extra charges AND gave him a bonus.

I hardly think they're being "paranoid".

Given that, amongst other things, the op said this:

"well since I cant have an account ever I might as well get all charges back then"

....the casino is trying to protect itself from threats of fraud. It has every right to do that.

PLUS...we don't know what the op was posting on their public facebook page. Obviously it was inappropriate or they wouldn't have banned them.

Whichever way you slice it, the op is behaving like a child and trying to blackmail the casino. Any honest player should be offended by such tactics, as these people are the reason WHY casinos are so hard on verification etc and potentially touchy when it comes to chargebacks.

I'm amazed that you found an angle where the casino is at fault in all of this....well maybe not actually. I think sometimes you just read what you want to read.

If the casino had REFUSED the refund or to accept it was at their end, MAYBE I could accept the op discussing their options to recover the funds, but NO casino is going to refund anything once you bring that up, so the op has crapped in their own nest here.
 

Brooklyn

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Location
On the Hot Mess Express
Ahh the old blackmail trick.

"Mommy, if you don't get me that toy I am gonna tell Daddy you used his credit cards."

That's what blackmail sounds like to me.

OP. I feel ya and your frustration but you can't just go around threatening chargebacks to a casino!

They are pretty strong as a group, well they were not so sure about now but me thinks they are...and to post that three different times is unnecessary.


Yikes.

Edit:
Dan: Are you drunk Mark

:lolup:

To be honest though the chat is a little confusing. Some parts Dan speaks clear well written English, the next he sounds like the OP.

*Puttin my detective pants on*
 
Last edited:

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
I'm sorry, but I never made it through the original post(s), but let me say this to everyone that deposits online.

1. NEVER deposit immediately following a 'failed', or 'did not complete' deposit. Wait a few hours, and check your bank/ewallet/card account online to make sure the deposit really did in fact 'fail'. Then if it doesn't show up, you can try again later. If it DID in fact come out of your banking account but did not show up in your casino account, contact the casino immediately. Thas happens, and has happened, off and on during the many years I've played online.

2. NEVER use a household account for gambling in case double or 'pending' charges put your account into the red.

End of Mousey sermon for the day....
 

Wiccan

Banned User - player fraud
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
USA
I agree in part

FFS vinyl. :rolleyes:

The casino AGREED to refund the extra charges AND gave him a bonus.

I hardly think they're being "paranoid".

Given that, amongst other things, the op said this:

"well since I cant have an account ever I might as well get all charges back then"

....the casino is trying to protect itself from threats of fraud. It has every right to do that.

PLUS...we don't know what the op was posting on their public facebook page. Obviously it was inappropriate or they wouldn't have banned them.

Whichever way you slice it, the op is behaving like a child and trying to blackmail the casino. Any honest player should be offended by such tactics, as these people are the reason WHY casinos are so hard on verification etc and potentially touchy when it comes to chargebacks.

I'm amazed that you found an angle where the casino is at fault in all of this....well maybe not actually. I think sometimes you just read what you want to read.

If the casino had REFUSED the refund or to accept it was at their end, MAYBE I could accept the op discussing their options to recover the funds, but NO casino is going to refund anything once you bring that up, so the op has crapped in their own nest here.

I agree with ya nifty I shouldnt have said that but when your told

Dan: the account will remain closed until the issue is fixed. And if we will refund the deposits your account will be closed and never for reopen
Dan: This is a Management decision and it is Final.

I didnt know what to say all I could get is when we refund you from the mistake the account will remain closed.
 

just play

closed account
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Location
USA
lol, I just use pre-paid mastercards
1. noone can overcharge me; only what's on it can be used
2. I can't be tempted to overspend; what's on it is on it and it can't be reloaded


Yes your pre-paid card can be overcharged, it has happened to me a few times. Even though I didn't have enough money in it.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
FFS vinyl. :rolleyes:

The casino AGREED to refund the extra charges AND gave him a bonus.

I hardly think they're being "paranoid".

Given that, amongst other things, the op said this:

"well since I cant have an account ever I might as well get all charges back then"

....the casino is trying to protect itself from threats of fraud. It has every right to do that.

PLUS...we don't know what the op was posting on their public facebook page. Obviously it was inappropriate or they wouldn't have banned them.

Whichever way you slice it, the op is behaving like a child and trying to blackmail the casino. Any honest player should be offended by such tactics, as these people are the reason WHY casinos are so hard on verification etc and potentially touchy when it comes to chargebacks.

I'm amazed that you found an angle where the casino is at fault in all of this....well maybe not actually. I think sometimes you just read what you want to read.

If the casino had REFUSED the refund or to accept it was at their end, MAYBE I could accept the op discussing their options to recover the funds, but NO casino is going to refund anything once you bring that up, so the op has crapped in their own nest here.

They also agreed to get back to the OP, and the offer to refund the charges was not for immediate action. It seems the OP felt they were not being kept in the loop, so started piling on the pressure. The casino seems to have reacted in kind by issuing all kinds of threats back to the OP rather than trying to calm him down. This just causes the situation to escalate out of control. Casino staff should be above this, and do their best to calm down the player.

It seems they tried to shift the blame over to Facebook with regard to disappearing wall comments, rather than admit that the comments had been moderated by the casino's own team. The comments may well have been out of order, but to an irate player the actions look like an attempt to silence him from being able to complain about the situation.


Dan is an employee of the casino.


Dan: Do you know if someone is disputing transactions with us he can go to jail?

Bollocks, this is a CIVIL matter. It only becomes a criminal matter if the dispute is made fraudulently. This does not apply here as the OP is only disputing the additional 5 charges that were never credited to his casino account, he accepts the 10 that were to be legitimate.

Dan: Mark, when someone is disputing or just threat us with a chargeback wi immediately close account and all the personal details are passed to a global data base. A negative data base which affect your account, and your future on gambling sites. Usually we put a note on your credentials that for fraudulent activities we closed your account and the next casino you will register will see this note and will not allow you to play. After we take all the chats and phone conversation and attach to a file which we send to your bank as a proof of your ilegal actions. You can have real troubles with your credit bank.
Dan: We also send a request to your local police and local debt agency to recover all the amount which you have been refunded.
Dan: And we make sure that the full amount is recovered

Far from calming down the player, Dan is implying that there can NEVER be any situation where disputing charges can be considered not to be a criminal fraud. He is also threatening to spread the word to third parties to damage the players ratings elsewhere.

This only adds to the confusion.

Dan: the account will remain closed until the issue is fixed. And if we will refund the deposits your account will be closed and never for reopen
Dan: This is a Management decision and it is Final.

It may appear to the OP that if the casino agrees to reimburse the 5 charges that got stuck due to the website errors, they will ban the player for life. This looks like it's a case of the player eats the loss caused by the website error, or they get the money back from the error but get banned for life.

Perhaps what Dan is really saying is that if ALL 15 deposits are refunded it will result in a life ban.

The REAL problem is that this is not an isolated incident, I am seeing complaints left, right, and centre about players who find charges they did not authorise appearing alongside their casino deposits. As far as the players are concerned, the situation is getting out of control, and some casinos seem to want to ignore the problem rather than address it and ensure the player is reimbursed for such additional charges.

Once players feel they are being intentionally screwed over by the processors, they will be more willing to break the understanding about NOT pursuing such matters through normal channels as stipulated by US regulations, but press for an internal resolution.

Unfortunately, ALL casinos are going to end up tarred with the same brush, even those who would have followed through with an internally arranged reimbursement of the player.

It doesn't help that some rogues are on record as actually telling players that the casino is not interested in helping, telling the player instead to take the matter up with their bank. This was Rushmore, and I suspect they were trying to use this player to exact revenge on the processor they no longer worked with, knowing that by going via his bank, this player may well bring down this processor in the course of getting their money back.

If I got screwed over by an internet shop, I wouldn't think twice about using the proscribed procedures as laid out in the terms and conditions of my credit card. If anything, it is REQUIRED to approach the bank, rather than bother the police, when it comes to suspect charges on a card.

I have not had such a situation occur when using a card at an online casino. It has been Neteller that has caused problems with deposits throwing an error page in the casino cashier, yet the money being taken from Neteller.
 

Sloto

Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos
Joined
May 18, 2009
Location
UK
Wiccan, please PM me your username and I will look into this issue asap.

Regards

Ms Sloto
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
To me it seems like a small miscommunication that just snowballed into a big mess. The account was TEMPORARILY locked until the issue with doubledipping was sorted. Pretty standard actually, if a casino has an issue with the security of an account they'll lock it. The CSR actually said that several times that it was closed to protect the player. Then the player went back several times instead of waiting for the person who was supposed to contact them, then mentioned chargebacks and now everything's gone to pieces. :rolleyes:
 
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