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Why I will never play at Absolute Poker again.

Discussion in 'Casinomeister's Poker Room' started by furrykef, Aug 4, 2005.

    Aug 4, 2005
  1. furrykef

    furrykef Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    I will present this as an exchange of e-mails. My initial e-mail was provoked by the events in You must register/login in order to see the link.. I was angry when I wrote it, so I admit it was a bit over the top, but I have no reason to suspect the poster was lying.

    Each e-mail will be separated by asterisks (it should be clear by reading who sent which e-mail). I have stripped off the signatures to AP's reply but other than that, this is the entirety of our correspondence.

    * * * * *

    Hello, it has come to my attention that you have closed the account of a friend of mine for being "linked" to an account with alleged illegal activity. You have not specified what this alleged illegal activity is, who the other account belongs to, or even what is meant by "linked". Furthermore, you have explicitly stated that you will no longer respond to my friend's e-mails about the matter, even though this issue has been far from resolved for him.

    If all the above is true, you as a company are complete assholes.

    If you check my account activity, you will see that I could not possibly have taken part in these activities as I have not played or otherwise used my account for a few months -- so don't think I'm writing this e-mail out of selfish interests here. I have considered playing here again for various reasons, the most attractive of which is that you are one of the few sites that allows a 200x BB buy-in into your no-limit and pot-limit games. I also have a bigger bankroll now so that I can more easily spread it out over several sites instead of keeping it in one or two. And now I'm never going to spread it into yours.

    The problem is not just that you have locked out my friend. It might have been an honest mistake, and honest mistakes happen. However, you have denied that it could possibly be an honest mistake from the outset. Strike one. When there is dispute, there should be cooperation. If you think he is a fraudulent player, then it is all right to lock his account temporarily just in case he is (to prevent potential future fraud). But from there you must cooperate until the matter is resolved. Next, you apparently ignored my friend's e-mails for a while. Strike two. The last thing somebody who doesn't even know why his account was closed wants is to not get an answer why. Then finally you answered basically saying, "Hey, you're a fraud, so fuck you." It was phrased much more nicely than that of course, but that's what it boiled down to. Well, I'm not a businessman, so I don't have to use such polite language. Hey, you're an asshole, so fuck you. Strike three, you're out. Asshole.

    Due to your bullying and the TERRIBLE way you have handled the situation with your "la la la I'm not listening and by the way we're right and you're wrong even though we have nothin' to prove nothin' " attitude, you have lost yourself a customer. Actually, you have lost two customers, considering the one you locked out in the first place is also a legitimate customer. Oh, and just so you know, I'm also going to be posting this e-mail on the web, so don't think we're going to be the only two customers you lose from this. Take it as a threat or not as you like; the fact is, it's true. Remember, if I feel this way, I'm sure others will feel the same.

    - Kef

    P.S. I have not named my friend, so that you don't get the wrong impression and think that I am trying to get his specific account unlocked. Although that is an issue for me, and I would like to see you begin to cooperate with him, the much larger issue is I do not feel safe playing here. I also cannot stand it when a company thinks they'll be better off being assholes and using brute force instead of trying to reason things out, and I will not give my business to a company that thinks such draconian techniques are acceptable, let alone in their best interests. This letter is meant to be a wake-up call to show that the latter certainly ain't true. So wake the fuck up before your entire customer base disappears.

    * * * * *

    Further e-mails in the exchange (separated by asterisks). Nothing was altered or left out: this is the entirety of my communications with Absolute Poker in this matter.

    * * * * *

    Dear Kevin

    Thank you for your email, we are sorry that your friend's account is closed but first of all we can not provide any information about your friend's account since you did not name him and also because it is not you account so please have you friend contact us at This email is not visible to you. and we will be more than happy to help him

    * * * * *

    On 8/2/05, This email is not visible to you. <support@absolutepoker.com> wrote:
    > Dear Kevin
    >
    > Thank you for your email, we are sorry that your friend's account is closed but first of all we can not provide any information about your friend's account since you did not name him

    As I described, that was NOT the point of my e-mail. The point of my
    e-mail was that you cannot go around closing people's accounts,
    refusing to offer adequate explanation or dispute resolution. If you
    believe you can then you must think you're God. News flash: you're
    not.

    > and also because it is not you account

    What, you mean I can feel safe just because it didn't happen to ME?
    Uhh... no. No, I don't feel safe at all. I feel if I deposit money
    into your site I'm needlessly jeopardizing it. That this didn't happen
    to me is not relevant at all. In fact, that should tell you something.
    It should tell you that players who have no interest in participating
    in fraudulent activities or anything of the sort are being scared off
    by your incompetence in handling this situation. I repeat, I do not
    blame you for locking my friend out if you think he did something
    wrong. I DO blame you for blithely assuming that there is zero
    possibility you made a mistake and also explicitly stating that you
    will not help him in this matter, all the while not even saying what
    he's done wrong (other than the broad and unhelpful response that his
    account is "linked" to a possibly fraudulent one). Oh, by the way,
    that leads into the next thing you said:

    > so please have you friend contact us at This email is not visible to you.
    > and we will be more than happy to help him

    Actually, what you guys wrote to him was:

    "Dear Andreas

    Thank you for your email, your account is connected to a player that
    made fraudulent activities at our site, you account will remain closed
    permanently also please note that there will be no more emails from us
    regarding this matter, thank you for your understanding

    Thanks for playing at Absolute Poker! If there is anything else we can
    help you with, please let us know. We're here for you!"

    Note that "There will be no more emails from us regarding this matter"
    bit. That does not sound like you are more than happy to help him, it
    sounds like you are telling him to fuck off. (And that "we're here for
    you" bit seems terribly insincere because what exactly can you do for
    him when his account is closed and you refuse to look into it?)

    You have never stated what the actual offense was, nor what is meant
    by the account being "linked" to a fraudulent account. From my point
    of view, that could mean anything from having unknowingly played with
    a fraudster frequently, to a fraudster who just happened to share his
    dynamic IP address using the site, to you simply not liking him and
    just making shit up. You have not stated if you think my friend, or
    the person his account was "linked" with (whatever that means) was
    colluding, or chip dumping, or making fraudulent chargebacks, or
    whatever. I think this is entirely unacceptable. You MUST clarify what
    was wrong AND provide a means for the user to dispute the claim.

    You might try to defend yourself saying that you take such measures so
    that legitimate players of your site feel safe. Well, now I feel
    exactly the opposite. If I want to play in a poker room, I want to
    play in a utopia; I don't want to play in one that seems to mirror the
    society presented in George Orwell's 1984. So I will tell you now I'm
    not going to buy any non-explanations that you guys behave like total
    jerks in order to make the site safe.

    Now you better get to explaining yourself. Is there another side to
    this story that I don't know, or is this going on exactly as I think
    it is?

    - Kef

    * * * * *

    Thank you for playing at Absolute Poker

    * * * * *

    [end of e-mail exchange]

    That's right. Their response to that long letter was simply "Thank you for playing at Absolute Poker". In other words, they didn't give a rat's ass about my concerns. I don't care if my friend was doing wrong, or my friend's friend was doing wrong; this is NOT the way to handle the situation.

    I'm not going to tell anybody what to do, but I recommend that anybody playing at AP play elsewhere.

    - Kef
     
  2. Aug 4, 2005
  3. jamiester

    jamiester Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Overnight dispatcher
    Location:
    Hampshire County, MA
    I know you're mad but...

    if they didn't take any money from your friend they can close his account for any reason they want. They don't have to justify it. Now IF they took some winnings, that would be a different story.
    Actually, I am going to go back and read the linked thread, something I should've done before bothering to reply :oops: :oops:
     
  4. Aug 4, 2005
  5. furrykef

    furrykef Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    No money was lost in this instance, but there was no money in the account. It is not clear what would have happened if there was money in the account.

    Yes, they're allowed to do it, and for that reason I don't expect Casinomeister to do anything about it, but that doesn't change the fact (well, my opinion, same thing in my self-oriented mind :D) that they are jerkwads, which is why I posted it here anyway. Just because they acted within their rights does not mean I should feel safe and give them my business; just because they acted within their rights does not mean I have no right to protest against their practices.

    - Kef
     
  6. Aug 4, 2005
  7. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    I have moved this to the Poker Table because I believe that is where it really should be.

    Anyhow - you email a poker room, call them assholes, and expect them to kiss your ass?

    Don't expect any sympathy for a first email like that to a poker room that has absolutely nothing to do with your account.
     
  8. Aug 4, 2005
  9. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    It's beyond me why anyone would take furrykef seriously. As soon as they got to the first "a-hole" they probably closed the email and hit delete.

    This is exactly how NOT to deal with a complaint issue. Namecalling is absolutely uncalled for. In doing so - you make yourself out to be a dimwitted customer that doesn't need to be dealt with. Hell, when I got to the first a-word, I stopped reading myself. What a waste of time.
     
  10. Aug 5, 2005
  11. furrykef

    furrykef Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    I wasn't really gonna play there again anyway, so I wanted to vent at them. I did not present the exchange because I thought it was a perfectly good e-mail exchange that might go about resolving problems. On the contrary, when I wrote it I understood that there would be no way of resolving the problems anyway (which they had already stated explicitly), so I felt I might as well have a little fun with them when informed them they lost a customer. No, I presented the exchange because it described exactly how I felt about the situation (well, not quite exactly... my first drafts of the e-mails were worse).

    If you continue reading, you'll see my second e-mail was much more reasonably-written, since I had calmed down a bit. There was no name-calling in that one (unless you count my informing them that they aren't God).

    So, yeah, my initial e-mail was stupid and wouldn't resolve anything, but that wasn't really the point. ;) I never even expected a response to the first one. I DID expect a response to the second one and am surprised they ignored it.

    - Kef
     
  12. Aug 5, 2005
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    So you send the poker room an email, say fuck you and call someone you don't even know an asshole, and then expect them to read anything further from you? How old are you anyway? Why are you wasting my bandwidth with this?
     
  14. Aug 5, 2005
  15. furrykef

    furrykef Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    People do calm down after having had time to do so, you know.
     
  16. Aug 5, 2005
  17. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Yeah but in defense of customer support, they are usually under a lot of stress. It's a thankless job. And they have lives too, y'know. It was probably some young woman who is worried about her sick baby in child care, and then she opens your "fuck you - you're an asshole email". You probably even made her cry.

    So who's the asshole now?

    As soon as someone gets abusive, that's it. No further communication should be entered into. Chalk this up as a learning experience.
     
  18. Aug 5, 2005
  19. furrykef

    furrykef Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    I guess I'm just a hateful person sometimes. I try to be nice most of the time, but lately I just keep finding things to get mad about and I go writing explosive crap like that. :oops:

    Maybe I should use some of my gambling winnings to get some professional help.

    - Kef
     
  20. Aug 6, 2005
  21. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Great idea...or develop a little self-control!
     
  22. Aug 7, 2005
  23. kfellmy

    kfellmy Dormant account

    my customer service job

    back when I worked for Conseco (a job which I hated) my job was to resolve disputes with agents after no one else could fix the problem. So most of the people I helped were pretty ticked off when they got to me.

    The first rule was: if they used foul language and had less than 500 dollars in commissions for the month, I could suspend their account and of course pull the plug on their phone call. I could just cut them off and they don't get their money. I did it quite a few times. So the person you are talking to or emailing may not give a damn about their job or you. Guess what most fit this mold. talk to a few gambling CS people and you will see that they are the enemy. I made close to 17 bucks an hour and hated the job. SO I didn't care about the customers as soon as they said "hell" one time. Ping, phone call over and you get no money.

    Man I hated that job.
     

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