Why do people join rogue casino's??

[Casinomeister]

...Here we go again..New Kid on the Block bashing. Hasn't been here long enough to be entitled to an opinion, eh?

Take a deep breath..............let it out.

It's cool. I don't mind criticism. Just so it's rational and not whacked out.

.
What drives me nuts is the attitude of some of the more established members - the Thought Police - trying to dictate their views to the lesser beings who are newbies.

But you are an established member as well. The only ones allowed to dictate here are me, Simmo! and Max

When I worked at a provider, I was asked to write a press release with out-and-out lies, and I told the bosses that it was going to work against them, and they're like "stop being holier than the pope."

I think I got that press release

I know where you're coming from - there are scads of sleazy people in the business. It's all about the $$ - they couldn't care less about the industry or their players. Scary stuff.

Oh, and LOADS of users have never seen this site.

I know. I rely on viral marketing and word of mouth...so get the word out

maybe you meant imposter, know what I mean Laurie......you should!!!

Eh? lost me there.

 

[LaurieJim]

maybe you meant imposter, know what I mean Laurie......you should!!!

.whats up garry, mad at me?.well this is about rogue casinos and i will come clean and say that yes i have played at those and lost my ass....

 

[NASHVEGAS]

Eh? lost me there.

Probably a good thing but it does not take away my back and forth debate of the moral dilemma and concern I have. I would hope you would be concerned also but I will just hope for the best for now!!

 

[Casinomeister]

Probably a good thing but it does not take away my back and forth debate of the moral dilemma and concern I have. I would hope you would be concerned also but I will just hope for the best for now!!

Well, if you need to start a new thread, then please do. Please don't derail this one with cryptic messages. Thank you.

 

[babs7262]

Nash

Ive gotta step in here, and Bryan, please do not encourage a new thread. I know whats he's talking about and this has gotta come to a stop. (not this subject on rogues, the nash/laurie thing)

Nash,
You may think you have every fact and you may feel that there is moral dilemma going on but your wrong. When you have a plan set up that is all you are obligated too. You are really causing an unwanted stir in her life right now and its uncalled for. Be mad at me if you must but to simply put it.....Its none of your business what she does , where she plays and who she talks to. She is a forum member here like everyone else and not your child.

I suggest you stop with the cryptic stuff and leave her alone. Now she went and posted stuff that she didnt want to just to block your glory of doing it. Please..leave her alone, its her life. BTW Bryan..I know you get tons of PMs, can you please read mine now. thanks

I apologize for further derailing this thread but I dont want a fresh one to start. Its funny how you left for awhile and decided to come back after she makes a post

 

[anniemac]

I swear, sometimes I get so aggravated trying to keep up with a topic. Why is it when a discussion is going along pretty well someone has to come in a throw a dig at someone else?

I was enjoying the topic and getting some good tips/advice and, here we go again, another off-topic personal jab.

Let's all try and play nice and leave each other alone and focus on topic.

 

[NASHVEGAS]

.whats up garry, mad at me?.well this is about rogue casinos and i will come clean and say that yes i have played at those and lost my ass,.........

Not mad at all and I could care less where you gamble......Loganberry's post hit home and alludes to deception which I thanked.......There was no attempt to embarass as you posted thereafter..... Long before we ever spoke I was somewhat aware of more than you just chose to reveal (nature of the beast is word travels fast as we were in somewhat inter related businesses) and I always have realized bad things happen to good people,.......therefore, my concern for the real Laurie has been directly expressed to you in the past.....I am sorry Laurie, maybe I should not be or have been conflicted and/or have/had a moral dilemma with your past which is somewhat contrary to your recent actions.....Maybe I should not have been concerned for your current overall well being and future.....It is/was a dilemma based on all......and to all, I certainly do not live in a glass house.....I will continue to hope for the best.

 

[suzecat]

.whats up garry, mad at me?.well this is about rogue casinos and i will come clean and say that yes i have played at those and lost my ass....

Dear laurie...............I have come clean about my rogue days and of course I was a newbie way back firmly settled in the belief that I wasn't being ripped off. More seasoned players tried, ad nauseum, to educate me of what I was involved. More than deaf ears were the problem I had, there was also the closed brain thing. Spin forward to the future and guess what? Everything the seasoned veterans had warned me about had happened! I recently made my mea culpas to those brave folks and boy did that feel good......like lots of weight lifted from my shoulders!

So this "gambling" forum is a very good thing with lots of members who have a multitude of talents and abilities......and pasts. That's a very cool thing and just would not be the same if any one important element was missing..........yes laurie....I am talking about you.

My apologies to anyone I have offended.....and I am certain there are loads of you....still learning at my old age to curb the "foot in mouth" syndrome. It's really very helpful to have the chance to practice Thanks everyone.

 

[USA2112]

Let a lowly content writer like me tell them that they're making their money on a rogue casino that's cheating players, and they'll tell me to mind my own business. I've got a Kiki to feed and clothe, so I can't pick my clients.

Some content writers would not even bring it up so it's good you do, whether a rogue affiliate would care I doubt it.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

Thanks to everyone's support and contributions on this. Particular thanks also to lots0 - who said a lot of stuff I was attempting to say, only a lot moe coherently.

One or two people did mention I was criticizing a lot of stuff here - well that wasn't my intention. I was really just throwing a few questions up in the hope that things can work better.

It has been a facinating debate and it is a very lively community here .

 

[jetset]

I agree - particularly good points from Lots0 and USA2112, which deserve further discussion rather than derailment here.

The concept of real regulation (ie that has teeth and the will to discipline; best practice, sensible regulations; officers to adjudicate player disputes; stringent auditing, probity and test processes and practical safeguards for player funds certainly appeals to me, and hopefully it is evolving, albeit mainly in Europe, including the UK.

Were this sort of specialised online gambling oversight instituted in the U.S. and Canada, I believe the player would be a helluva lot better protected (albeit probably taxed - there's always a downside!)

My personal view is that such regulation needs to be at national or (in the case of the USA) state government level and staffed by people who have empirical knowledge and know what they're doing.

There is additionally a genuine move by most major online gambling companies through outfits like EGBA to improve business practices and responsible gaming standards as a practical means to distinguish themselves from less concerned operators - the controversial "self regulatory" approach if you like. And of course to favourably position themselves in an environment where licensing and regulation is now a distinct possibility.

Reviewing events over the past couple of years, I think there is a degree of harmony developing among the more responsible jurisdictions regarding their requirements. There are growing reports of more collaboration involving both jurisdictions and self-regulatory bodies and that needs to continue in order to develop a sensible set of common international standards based on the exclusion of dishonesty and protecting the player/consumer. The Internet presents unusual circumstances due to its cross-border nature, and uniform standards would be useful.

There will always be argument over which jurisdictions are "real" regulators and which are not, usually based on personal experiences of players who have used the jurisdiction for the most common (player) purpose - lodging a complaint.

Unfortunately, most regulators have not yet cottoned on to how critically important to their credibility it is to be responsive and communicate their activities and findings in this regard.

Another aspect that I think influences perceptions of a jurisdiction is the content of its licensed operators list - if that includes outfits with a persistently bad reputation, this reflects (as it should do) on the cred. of the jurisdiction.

What, and how transparently, the jurisdiction does about bad operators is an obvious factor in how it is perceived by the gambling public.

Here, I think Lots0's reference to the scandalous UltimateBet and Absolute Poker affairs is a great example - I think most people have a very uncomfortable feeling that there's a huge cover-up going on there to this day.

When it comes to defining what constitutes a rogue, perceptions are again coloured in many cases by personal experience, but there are surely clear 'hallmarks' of the rogue casino operator - these have been listed here many times and are based on common sense and fact.

In the absence of regulation of the information and affiliate portals (which I don't see anytime in the immediate future) a definition of what constitutes a rogue would possibly be wasted on some affiliates and webmasters anyway, because as we have heard there are those who don't give a damn.

All the more important for players to find and support those who do give a damn, imo!

I believe players, and especially new players, need to be encouraged to carry out individual research before laying their cash down. That includes somewhat more than a cursory glance at the first entry on page one of Google, and hopefully regular visits to information portals that have both credibility and solid information.

If more players did that, and stayed the hell away from casinos that have a record of unfairly disqualifying bonuses, spamming, operating with dodgy 'licences', slow or no paying players, using questionable software etc etc etc, then said players would probably be a lot safer.

 

[KikisMom]

Better to have your net winnings taxed than to have your winnings not paid by some rogue casino.

When I worked in-house, I criticized and verified up and down.

Their regard for the law was absolutely zero. But, I don't see them rogued here.

I notice, though, that their good friends over at Cassinova are 100% rogued.

 

[jetset]

Another question that strikes me is how diligent affiliate marketers are in properly researching and keeping up to date on what's happening to players at online casinos they promote?

Whilst a conscientious approach to affiliate business is clearly not an imperative for some (and hopefully a minority) affiliates, there are others who take their ethics and responsibilities seriously and genuinely try to avoid promoting the more notorious operators. They also go out of their way to help expose bad operators, warn players and assist screwed players in resolving issues.

But anyone can set themselves up as an affiliate with very limited capital, it would appear, and you have to wonder how long it takes for some of these folks to overcome a lack of practical experience and knowledge.

That's assuming that they are sufficiently committed to want to run a reputable and integrity driven affiliate business.

A related point: do affiliate programs take enough time and effort in vetting and even randomly monitoring new affiliates and their websites? Do they feel a sense of responsibility to the player to do this?

 

[bwin]

Personally I would consider WH and Bluesq 100% legit but BWin? - c'mon.

why is this? I would really like to know more

 

[lots0]

A related point: do affiliate programs take enough time and effort in vetting and even randomly monitoring new affiliates and their websites? Do they feel a sense of responsibility to the player to do this?

That is a very good point to bring up.

I have yet to see any affiliate program that 'vets' their new affiliates in any way.

Every single affiliate program out their specifically targets 'new' affiliates, even the affiliate programs I consider to be 'respectable' and 'trustworthy'.

The affiliate recruiting on these sites never mentions things that experienced webmasters want to know. They only target 'new' affiliates by telling them how 'easy' it is to put up a few banners and make a truck load of money...

No experienced webmaster is going to want to know how to copy and paste the HTML banner code to their site... Yet that is about the total of the information given by just about every affiliate program out there.

What experienced webmasters want to know is what software is the casino using, what the payback rate is set to, what kind of player retention do they have, what kind of cross promotions does the casino do...etc.

These are the kinds of questions that experienced webmasters want to know and in just about every case getting that kind of info from any casino affiliate program is like trying to pull a Grizzly's tooth with a pair of pliers.

 

[GaryWatson]

Some of the reputable sites have non reputable affiliate programs.

Bodog put a bit of effort into vetting initial affiliate sites. All other sites I know just accept anyone.

One affiliate program I know of at the moment have no interest in tracking players. Its a real shame. I like the site, I trust their site, I dont trust the affiliate team, they cant be arsed responding. I feel like withdrawing all their links. Im just leaving them on for the players benefit. They will get no more exposute on future sites.

The site is a major UK bookmaker with an established rep. They affiliate program tarnishes this

 

[jetset]

That is a very good point to bring up.

I have yet to see any affiliate program that 'vets' their new affiliates in any way.

Every single affiliate program out their specifically targets 'new' affiliates, even the affiliate programs I consider to be 'respectable' and 'trustworthy'.

The affiliate recruiting on these sites never mentions things that experienced webmasters want to know. They only target 'new' affiliates by telling them how 'easy' it is to put up a few banners and make a truck load of money...

No experienced webmaster is going to want to know how to copy and paste the HTML banner code to their site... Yet that is about the total of the information given by just about every affiliate program out there.

What experienced webmasters want to know is what software is the casino using, what the payback rate is set to, what kind of player retention do they have, what kind of cross promotions does the casino do...etc.

These are the kinds of questions that experienced webmasters want to know and in just about every case getting that kind of info from any casino affiliate program is like trying to pull a Grizzly's tooth with a pair of pliers.

A thought provoking post which imv highlights important areas where this industry (and the protection of the player) could be significantly improved by affiliate programs.

But do affiliate programs on the whole care....?

 

[jetset]

Just for interest, assuming that affiliate programs did try to recruit a more experienced and honest level of affiliate, what sort of criteria should it apply to its selection process?

Or is it simply a case of recruiting volume over quality when it comes to affiliate marketing?

 

[DiamondGeezer]

why is this? I would really like to know more

Low ratings at SBR and Bookmakersreview where you were on the red list and are still orange. Also you are regulated in Malta which I consider to be a weak jurisdiction.

William Hill and Bluesq are both A rated and are at much stronger jurisdictions than yourselves. No offense but it is just reality.

Getting accredited here would be a big step forward and hopefully you are going in the right direction. If you were accredited it would reassure a lot of players for sure.

 

[GaryWatson]

Just for interest, assuming that affiliate programs did try to recruit a more experienced and honest level of affiliate, what sort of criteria should it apply to its selection process?

Or is it simply a case of recruiting volume over quality when it comes to affiliate marketing?

As I said, Bodog is the only site I have ever signed up at that really take an interest on what the affiliate sites are doing when they try to sign up for the program.

They reject affiliates on a regular basis, some suggest its down to lack of pagerank. This is not true. I was accepted with 0 pagerank on a fairly new site.

Their criteria was content on the website. They want to know what the affiliates aims are. They see the affiliate as an extension to their reputation. They required a lot of other information. I think I had about 5 or 6 emails back and forward before they accepted. It only took a day or 2 because their affiliate team made themselves readily available. You wont see their popups on a porn site.

I was very impressed with bodogs strategy. Although fairly strict, I think they do a great job.

 

[GaryWatson]

I agree with DiamondGeezer. I feel safer with UK based bookmakers. Some have 100 year+ reputations they intent to keep in tact. It would be silly of them to risk it on online scams. My only wish is that some of them would take a more active role in vetting their affiliate business side. Some I know I cant trust. As for the gameplay, I feel fairly safe with sites like william hills etc

 

[lots0]

But do affiliate programs on the whole care....?

I don't believe they do. Or if they do care, they sure don't show it.

If the affiliate programs thought that marketing to experienced webmasters would make them money... I have no doubt the affiliate programs would target the information that experienced webmasters want.

But the casino affiliate programs, in general, have decided that marketing to 'new' unexperienced webmasters is where they are going to make money.

Or is it simply a case of recruiting volume over quality when it comes to affiliate marketing?

For most casino affiliate programs it is simply a matter of quantity and not quality.

As far as Bodog, I have not seriously looked at their affiliate program as I am not a big fan of Calvin's. However, if they are 'vetting' affiliates, I might have to take a good look at their program.