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Why do most casinos require that you wager the deposit and bonus?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by chucho, May 3, 2004.

    May 3, 2004
  1. chucho

    chucho Bonus Pimp

    If I deposit at Intercasino I have to wager 20x the bonus only. So if someone wanted to deposit more than the match bonus amount, they would not have to wager any more than if they just deposit the exact match amount. This makes sense, but most casinos require that you wager the deposit and the bonus x amount of times. This is incentive to deposit only the match amount. It seems stupid, can anyone tell me why casinos do this? If I deposit more than the match, I am required to play longer just because I decided to deposit more. It is punishment for not being a pure bonus hunter.

    The other thing that I could never figure out is why some software's, Playtech and Odds On, do not tell you when the dealer has black jack until the hand is over when the dealer is showing a 10. So I have 6, then 9, then 13 then 16 and I hit a 5 for 21!!!! I am so happy, oops, the dealer had black jack the whole time, why did he not tell me before as it was a waste of my time. Also, thanks a lot for letting me split those two aces only to find that you had black jack the whole time....you basically stole my extra wager as their was no way I could win the hand. I know, play by the book and don't split aces against a 10. It is dumb though, who ever wrote the software had never been to a real casino because that would never happen in a real casino.
     
  2. May 3, 2004
  3. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    There are a hundred (not literally, but alot) different BJ variants around, and some do not check for bj with a dealer 10 showing. Its just a different variation.

    As for the wagering question, they are requiring you to play the equivalent of 10x the deposit + bonus, but making it easier for those that want to deposit more than the amount of the match, since they are supposedly unable to remove the bonus from your account once its been credited. Its just a numbers game really. 10x(d+b) = 20x(b) in 100% match cases.
     
  4. May 3, 2004
  5. pokeraddict

    pokeraddict Webmaster

    Occupation:
    Pro Poker Player
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    The not checking for BJ varience gives the casino an added advantage. If you were to double or split and the dealer had BJ you would lose more.

    In my opinion the BJ game at odds on is especially bad. You can only double on 9, 10 or 11, you cannot double down after a split, you cannot resplit, and the much hated not checking for BJ before you act. Just too many rules in favor of he house that most places do not have.
     
  6. May 3, 2004
  7. HateMG

    HateMG Dormant account

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY

    That's true for European BJ. But if you play Playtech you lose only 1 unit on double or split. So I don't see any point of not checking for BJ in this case.
     
  8. May 3, 2004
  9. pokeraddict

    pokeraddict Webmaster

    Occupation:
    Pro Poker Player
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I know, play by the book and don't split aces against a 10.

    What book is this? You always split aces unless its euro (not checking for BJ first) then you do not split them vs an ace.
     
  10. May 3, 2004
  11. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    You should always split aces against a 10. If you are playing with European no hole card rule, you should split aces vs ace if you can draw to split aces (Microgaming single deck or European BJ), and hit if you get only one additional card (OddsOn).
     
  12. May 4, 2004
  13. Clayman

    Clayman Dormant account

    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Yes, an absolutely wretched game with a HA of 0.73%.

    Yet still better than IGW (Good as Gold) (4D,D10,H17,NO DAS, OBO) with a HA of 0.90%.

    But, of course, neither is as bad as 6-5 single-deck in Vegas.
     
  14. May 4, 2004
  15. fatshaft

    fatshaft Full Member

    Location:
    Isle of Man
    1.As you are now aware, always split aces.

    2. If you had been to a real casino in EUROPE, you will find the peak rule is an American version of BJ, so it would indeed happen in a real casino :rolleyes:
     
  16. May 4, 2004
  17. chucho

    chucho Bonus Pimp

    As for the wagering question, they are requiring you to play the equivalent of 10x the deposit + bonus, but making it easier for those that want to deposit more than the amount of the match, since they are supposedly unable to remove the bonus from your account once its been credited. Its just a numbers game really. 10x(d+b) = 20x(b) in 100% match cases.[/QUOTE]

    I am not sure what you mean, it does not make any sense your statement? I think you are agreeing with me that it is dump to require players to play the deposit and the bonus and not just the bonus?
     
  18. May 4, 2004
  19. chucho

    chucho Bonus Pimp

    Pershps I am wrong and you do not lose the extra bet with playtech if you double or split or find that the dealer has BJ. I know that you can double or split against a 10 with RTG. I see the the Wizzards playtech charts says to double against a 10 so I must have been wrong about that one and it is obvious what to do with MG viper as they check the hole card. But what about old MG and odds on?

    Also, does anyone know when playing at Planet Luck, I global, do you ever use the surrender option and do they steal you extra bet if you double and the dealer shows BJ?
     
  20. May 4, 2004
  21. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    They're not stealing the bet when the dealer doesn't peek and has a blackjack, its just a different variety playing by a different set of rules.
     
  22. May 4, 2004
  23. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I just mean that in most cases where you get 100% match bonus, 20x bonus is the same as 10x deposit+bonus, which is what many places require today. So it is no difference, unless you wish to deposit more than the matched amount. In that case, its good since you don't have to wager as much.
     
  24. May 4, 2004
  25. HateMG

    HateMG Dormant account

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Planetluck and Starluck do take extra bet on your double and split against BJ. They don't check for BJ.
    As I remember you should surrender on 16 against 9, 10, ace and 15 against 10 .
     
  26. May 5, 2004
  27. chucho

    chucho Bonus Pimp


    So it is no difference, unless you wish to deposit more than the matched amount. In that case, its good since you don't have to wager as much.

    If I get a sign up bonus which is a $100 match, 20x d + b wagering requirments, I will have to wager $4000. If I deposit $200 I will get the same match bonus but I will have to wager $6000, I have to wager $2000 more in order to cashin just because I deposited an extra $100. So lets say that I have wagered $4500 and they flip the switch and I am losing every hand. I want to cash out but too bad, I deposited $200 when I should have deposited $100 as I must play another $1500 in order to cash out. Sure I can play longer with the extra money I deposited but then again why not deposit $100 and then if I lose I can deposit $100 after I zero out.
     
  28. May 5, 2004
  29. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    Exactly. It benefits you if you want to deposit more and don't really care too much about the bonus.
     
  30. May 5, 2004
  31. hhcfreebie

    hhcfreebie Dormant account

    Occupation:
    research
    Location:
    USA
    It's not the case.
    Most places (such as FL group) only calculate WR based on the bonus and the deposit that generate bonus.
    If you deposit 100 get 100 and the WR is 20d+b, the WR is 2000.
    If you deposit 10,000 and get 100, the WR is still 2000.
    You can check their terms and conditions. They often give you examples what will happen when you deposit more.
     
  32. May 5, 2004
  33. case

    case Dormant account

    You lost me here, jpm, but I think I'm probably misinterpreting what you say, since I can't imagine any situation where it's a benefit to have a higher WR.

    I also thought most places only required wagering on the amount up to the deposit required for the max bonus.

    If that's not true, it is tantamount to penalizing a player for depositing more. Seems like a poor move to me.

    I, too, am curious why the WR is usually quoted as some multiple of (D+B).

    To make the multiplier smaller (look, only 10X)?

    To increase the difference between various percentage bonuses (a 10% bonus is less than half as good as a 20% bonus, since the WR for the 10% bonus is 11 x bonus x multiplier, whereas the WR for the 20% is only 6 x bonus x multiplier)?

    Random historical decision perpetuated because there's no particular reason to change it?

    I'm going to guess that it's none of these. I think it's probably the influence of an ancient alien civilization intent on studying Terran reactions to obscure rules.

    But I could be wrong, I guess.



    I remain,
     
  34. May 5, 2004
  35. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I know it is getting kinda confusing here. I meant the intercasino way is good because they supposedly can't remove the bonus once you deposit and get it credited. So say you want to deposit $1000 there and its the first time this month. You'll get whatever the match bonus is automatically ($100 this month I think) and start playing. In most other casinos, you now have to wager 10x (or more) deposit + bonus, which is $11,000! For only what amounted to a 10% bonus. But here, you only need to wager 20x the bonus, which means $2000 in wagering. MUCH more reasonable considering its only 10%. And if you're depositing $1k, you're pretty likely to exceed that $2k requirement pretty quickly. Make more sense now case?
     
  36. May 5, 2004
  37. Clayman

    Clayman Dormant account

    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    I think the Inter bonus for May is $90 with a 25X requirement.

    If one is not penalized with higher wagering for a deposit greater than needed to get max bonus, it's always worth a thought to perhaps deposit more to lower the risk-of-ruin.
     
  38. May 5, 2004
  39. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    You're right it is 90 this month, and I agree on the higher deposit part as well.
     

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