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Why disallow games through T&C and not through software?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by bridgehajen, Apr 13, 2007.

    Apr 13, 2007
  1. bridgehajen

    bridgehajen Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Software Engineer
    Location:
    DK
    Hi,

    I had a thought a few days back. It immediately struck me as obvious and something that greater minds must have thought before me. I'm posting it here for comments, especially from the casino representatives that hang around the forum.

    Allow me to explain ...

    When a player takes up a bonus, the T&Cs typically disallow a range of games for various reasons. With T&Cs generally being hairy and complicated beasts, some players will overlook the restrictions and play games which are not allowed. Perhaps they hit a jackpot but the casino, citing the T&Cs, refuses to pay. A public dispute results, which benefits none of the involved parties (the player becomes frustrated and the casino gets bad publicity, whether deserved or undeserved).

    This is not a hypothetical example. It occurs in this forum from time to time.

    So, here is the obvious idea .. why not simply disable the games that are not allowed? Grey out the buttons. You can configure all kinds of stuff, such as table limts and the like, so why not make it possible to configure this? Of course, the software would have to keep track of whether the player has an uncleared bonus and what are its conditions. But you probably already do that somehow. (And don't worry about the actual terms and the T&Cs on the web site getting out of sync, just let your web server generate part of the text based upon the terms in the database or config file.)

    That was the idea. Free, unpatented, and up for comments.

    And of course you may argue that it is up to the software providers to build this kind of functionality. But don't forget that they are paid to do what you want them to do. If a large number of customers request something they will get the idea.

    And finally; I am aware that Microgaming devised an elegant solution to the problem by introducing the EZ Bonus system, which is one of the things that gives your software a good reputation. But what about the other software providers. I don't have any statistics but it appears to me that RTG casinos get into a lot of troubles on this account ....
     
  2. Apr 13, 2007
  3. mikepipe

    mikepipe Dormant account

    Occupation:
    owner
    Location:
    still progressing
    a good idea, which is not new, we had discussions about often here in the forum.
    I think, you are right, especially for RTG and the other providers. MG-problems hardly happen.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Apr 13, 2007
  5. RobRival

    RobRival Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical Support
    Location:
    Canada
    Hello,

    Rival Powered casinos with the Rival bonus system (most of the licensees use it, however Superior and Bet Empire do not) have this feature. Instead of banning games out right, however, the bet limits are modified. Wagers on games that do not count are simply not added to the wagering for the bonus.

    So far, none of the operators have used the feature that specifically prohibits a game from being played (that is, the bet limits are 0 when a promotion calls for that).

    Rival designed this system to be easy for players to use, and to avoid the headaches of terms and conditions, tracking wagers, and retroactive changes.

    I hope this answers your question,

    Rob

    Rival Technical Support
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Apr 13, 2007
  7. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    also try to work in:

    a dialog message "wagers on this game do not contribute to the bonus wagering" or "wagers on this game count only 25% or a fourth towards the bonus wagering"

    where some game must not be played while on bonus: "wagering on this game will forfeit your bonus eligibility and playing now will *nullify any subsequent winnings.* contact support to have your bonus removed if you wish to play this game"

    and in cases where the wr is permanently increased if one decides to play certain games "warning: wagering on this game will increase your wagering criteria from *15 times* to *75 times* bonus and deposit" or similar

    clearly with today's technology this can be achieved. if any casino would take the leap of faith and implement these sorts of conditions to make bonus play crystal clear and fool-proof, invariably players would flock to this place. big juicy offers and clearplay structure don't hurt either :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Apr 14, 2007
  9. EasyRhino

    EasyRhino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Analyst
    Location:
    San Diego
    I think partly it's due to the technical complicatedness of doing such a thing. Especially at an RTG, where the game restrictions sometimes vary wildly per coupon.

    And, to be frank, for some operators, I think it's a convenient way to jack over less careful players who into losing more money that usual with the bonus.
     
  10. Apr 14, 2007
  11. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    Bingo!
     
  12. Apr 14, 2007
  13. tim5ny

    tim5ny Quit Gambling

    Why don't they do it through the software? Are you kidding? Do you know how many people they scam out of their winnings because of the fine print! Only a small fraction of gamblers even know that there is help out there from guys like Casinomeister. The rest are at the mercy of the casinos.
     
  14. Apr 14, 2007
  15. bridgehajen

    bridgehajen Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Software Engineer
    Location:
    DK
    Well, I agree with the point of view that some operators use it as a way to cheat customers. But I also believe that for any serious operator it's far more profitable in the long run if the player has a good inital experience with the casino. This will assure that a certain percentage of the players eventually comes back to lose their own money. Welcome bonuses fit into this perfectly by increasing the chance that the players wins, which most players attribute mainly to luck, "hot slots", "nice dealers" or whatever. Heck, if it weren't for them nasty bonus hunters, there would hardly be a need for T&Cs ;)

    Speaking of bonus hunters, I guess I should comment on CocoaRob's post. I downloaded a Rival casino (my first one) yesterday and I must say that the software is quite slick. Only problem was that it sometimes froze when it couldn't contact the server but I guess I should say that my ISP is amazingly unstable. It also seems like you have found a good way to manage the bonus terms, not far from the idea that I posted above. And the idea with changing the betting limits while in "bonus mode" is also a clever move. All in all, it's quite difficult to get a +EV from your bonus, so I guess that you did your homework properly .. ;)
     
  16. Apr 14, 2007
  17. nielsenj

    nielsenj Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Scandinavia
    The idea of letting the casino software block games that are excluded from reaching wagering requirements is new to me and I like it. Some difficulties with blocking games are mentioned earlier in this thread, but if there is a will from the software developing companies and online casinos to implement a game blocker, surely they can find a way. It would be a good additional feature for the future at legitimate online casinos who are concerned about transparancy and honesty.
     
  18. Apr 14, 2007
  19. cerdikola

    cerdikola Low Roller

    Occupation:
    ñ
    Location:
    Spain
    That will never happen.

    That's why casinos avoided a lot of jackpots and big winnings to be paid :lolup:

    PD: Rival software and 888.com are the most fair in this situation, they just change table limits and you're able to play ;)
     
  20. Apr 15, 2007
  21. 3Dice

    3Dice I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    Thanks happygobrokey, very good idea. 3Dice also uses a reduced contribution towards the WR for certain games (so we can allow all games), but an added messagebox like that will really help keep things clear. Passing it on to the engineers.

    In a more general response to the original question, I think this discrepancy is caused mainly by the speed of development/testing. The lifetime of a bonus system and set of specific rules often is much shorter than the development cycle a sw company with many licensees has. For a casino to request a change/feature in the software will take months and changing the T&C on the website takes less than a day. I think its more an issue of not being able instead of not wanting to ..
     
  22. Apr 18, 2007
  23. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    It would be trivially easy for a gaming software provider to supply a flexible system that allows each individual casino to lock out games for a given player based on the bonus claimed.

    Most casinos don't want this feature. They want to freeroll players whenever possible. The whole bonus T&C thing gives them the perfect opportunity.
     
  24. Apr 18, 2007
  25. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    Some casinos are working on software solutions: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...n-xxl-club-casino-bonus-terms.html#post153687

    Some already have them in place.

    Some situations are so complicated, because of individual operator's offerings within a platform, that it would be almost impossible (as someone mentioned earlier)

    Some casinos probably do use the miasma of bonus confusion to 'free-roll' the unwitting, just as an unscrupulous player will find a loophole to exploit a casino's offer.

    To the OP question, there are many reasons. I dunno.
     
  26. Apr 18, 2007
  27. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    miasma and unscrupulous in the same sentence...

    someone's been watching the national vocabulary championships on gameshow network ;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Apr 18, 2007
  29. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    MY thoughts exactly... :mad:

    . . . . :lolup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Apr 18, 2007
  31. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    Naw, I just had to pull out the big werdz 'cuz I'm a ploppy:D

    'one who ruins an advantage player's play'? Nah, I just have droopy draws and plop posts here and there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2007
  32. Apr 18, 2007
  33. XXLClubCasino

    XXLClubCasino Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    Curacao
    I've passed the link to this thread to our Playtech account manager to forward it to the developing team. Playtech is currently working on a couple of improvement in this area. They will hopefully manage to implement this feature as an option to a casino operator.

    I truly believe this would help both the players and the casino operators to increase player satisfaction. We try to be as transparent as possible given the boundaries set by the actual playtech platform. Any type of improvement in the right direction should be welcome.

    Looking at our numbers I must say that only a minority of players get "trapped" in bonus related issues (maybe around 10 cases over a year). Our policy in this case is to void the winnings and let the player decide to either get full refund of his deposit or leave his deposit + bonus and play in non restricted games. Also this problem mostly occur with foreigner players not reading their email or the T&C. I agree that forcing players to read the casino T&C is not the way to go at all and a software solution blocking the games would be a very welcome addition to the casino client software.
     
    1 person likes this.

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