Why can't casinos do something about the xxx?

blankley

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Mar 11, 2005
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uk
This may well be a forbidden subject, but many of us know all about it and it is a hot topic.
Certain players are using 'aids' to their play, and as a result wr's and game exclusions are rocketing.

Why are the casino's not able to detect it and do something about it and allow those of us who want to play a decent card or video poker game with a sensible wr attached to a bonus?

Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose but we don't stick the minimal stake down on the table and watch it being ground out for hours on end - that's real bonus abuse.
 

Simmo!

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The problem is that whenever there is "free" money to be had, there will be people trying to make the most of it. Human nature. I doubt there's anything that can be done about it except by "play analysis" which is a hot and contentious topic in itself. The problem will always be there while the casinos offer sign-up bonuses IMO.
 

vinylweatherman

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This may well be a forbidden subject, but many of us know all about it and it is a hot topic.
Certain players are using 'aids' to their play, and as a result wr's and game exclusions are rocketing.

Why are the casino's not able to detect it and do something about it and allow those of us who want to play a decent card or video poker game with a sensible wr attached to a bonus?

Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose but we don't stick the minimal stake down on the table and watch it being ground out for hours on end - that's real bonus abuse.
Casinos ARE doing something about it, they are increasing WR and game exclusions.

Microgaming casinos supply the autoplay function that makes grinding out WR on games such as Blackjack or French roulette easy. The response to increased WR from the bonus players has been to employ mathematics to the problem. This has resulted in the strategy of placing one huge bet on a game such as Roulette, Bacarrat, or Blackjack to double the bankroll, and grinding out the WR if they win. This method works in the long term over many sign up bonuses. Casinos have addressed this by limiting players to only one bonus per casino group.
For casinos without autoplay, there are software specific strategy tables on the internet, this still allows the grind, but the player has to sit there and play the many thousands of $1 games themselves.
Large sign-up bonuses, often of more than 100%, can be attacked by playing higher variance games, with the prospect of significantly increasing the bankroll when successful.

One thing the casinos have NOT done though, is to change the system of offering huge sign-up bonuses, and sweet F A to regular players. Instead, they have supplemented the above measures by confiscating winnings from players who they believe have "abused the bonus", This also affects other players who simply had a lucky spell - it depends if their luck looks like a strategy, rather than casual play.

A special case was 888.com and Reef Club. A Blackjack playing robot application was developed and released for this software a few years ago. It was freely available, but went undercover a while back. It allowed the easy grind that Microgaming Autoplay allows. I believe it is now being offered for sale, and other robots are being developed, mainly for poker sites.

The casinos argument is that if you want to play the traditional games that "bonus abusers" play, then don't take the bonus. Unfortunately, they don't offer any alternative way of rewarding such players, such as a decent loyalty point scheme, or even a cashback on losses deal.

What casinos are afraid of is designing an "abuse proof" bonus, as it would have to be so unattractive that it would not act to poach players from their regular casinos, nor attract new players into the market.
 

KasinoKing

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This may well be a forbidden subject, but many of us know all about it and it is a hot topic.
Certain players are using 'aids' to their play, and as a result wr's and game exclusions are rocketing.

Why are the casino's not able to detect it and do something about it and allow those of us who want to play a decent card or video poker game with a sensible wr attached to a bonus?

Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose but we don't stick the minimal stake down on the table and watch it being ground out for hours on end - that's real bonus abuse.
I have to sadly admit that it's a case of the casinos wanting to 'have their cake & eat it'. :(

They want players to either lose all their money through normal play or 'abuse the bonus' so they have an excuse not to pay them. That is the only possible logical conclusion one can draw from their inadequate terms.

If they REALLY wanted to stop so-called abuse, it is incredibly simple; all they have to do is have conditions which state that either no large bets may be played during WR (defining exactly how much a large bet is), or state that playing certain named games during WR will result in forfeiting of the bonus & winnings (like many RTG's do).

An even better and much easier solution would be program the software to control the play as stated above so that it's physically not possible for players to play an 'abusive' strategy during WR.
To my knowledge only Rival currently have these controls via the software.
I really wish the other big name softwares would follow suit, as this would kill off probably 80% of bonus related casino complaints and allow the casinos to offer more 'friendly' bonuses for genuine players who are willing to take a proper gamble.

KK
 

aka23

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Jun 12, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
This may well be a forbidden subject, but many of us know all about it and it is a hot topic.
Certain players are using 'aids' to their play, and as a result wr's and game exclusions are rocketing.

Why are the casino's not able to detect it and do something about it and allow those of us who want to play a decent card or video poker game with a sensible wr attached to a bonus?

Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose but we don't stick the minimal stake down on the table and watch it being ground out for hours on end - that's real bonus abuse.
I believe players using "aids" is more of a concern with poker rooms than standalone casinos, and poker rooms as a whole have greater protection. With poker rooms "aids" could theoretically play at an expert level against beginners and collude with each other. However, with casinos "aids" can't do more than Microgaming autoplay. If it becomes a serious concern, then over time more casinos will add in similar checks to poker rooms and/or forbid use of "aids" in their terms.
 
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vinylweatherman

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Oct 14, 2004
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United Kingdom
I believe players using "aids" is more of a concern with poker rooms than standalone casinos, and poker rooms as a whole have greater protection. With poker rooms "aids" could theoretically play at an expert level against beginners and collude with each other. However, with casinos "aids" can't do more than Microgaming autoplay. If it becomes a serious concern, then over time more casinos will add in similar checks to poker rooms and/or forbid use of "aids" in their terms.
They already do. many have a term forbidding the use of "robots", followed by a rather wide definition of what they call a "robot". Usually it covers ANY means of playing other than the player physically sitting there, and clicking the controls with their mouse. Some even have terms against the "grind" strategy, prohibiting a long series of minimum bets on a single game with the intention of completing WR and then cashing out. Casino Rewards even have a term banning the autoplay feature, which is part of the lobby software itself.
 

aka23

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Jun 12, 2006
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Planet Earth
They already do. many have a term forbidding the use of "robots", followed by a rather wide definition of what they call a "robot". Usually it covers ANY means of playing other than the player physically sitting there, and clicking the controls with their mouse. Some even have terms against the "grind" strategy, prohibiting a long series of minimum bets on a single game with the intention of completing WR and then cashing out. Casino Rewards even have a term banning the autoplay feature, which is part of the lobby software itself.
Yes, some casinos do have such a clause, but I believe the majority of casinos do not. Similarly some casinos have more advanced checks, but the majority do not.
 

blankley

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Mar 11, 2005
Location
uk
An even better and much easier solution would be program the software to control the play as stated above so that it's physically not possible for players to play an 'abusive' strategy during WR.
To my knowledge only Rival currently have these controls via the software.
I really wish the other big name softwares would follow suit, as this would kill off probably 80% of bonus related casino complaints and allow the casinos to offer more 'friendly' bonuses for genuine players who are willing to take a proper gamble.

KK
Only Ladbrokes seem to have addressed the problem with introducing minimum sized bets on the 'abused' games (although they now seem to have gone over the top a bit with their 10% of the bonus rule).

How hard would that be to enforce? You wouldn't get players hogging the servers with six hour sessions betting one unit per hand.
 

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