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Who plays Black Jack at Vegas Technology Casinos ?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by poser, Mar 13, 2010.

    Mar 13, 2010
  1. poser

    poser Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Hamburg
    Hey,

    is there someone of you who often plays BJ at English Harbour Group Casinos, E.H., Caribbean Gold, Millionaire Casino.... (Vegas Tech. Casinos of this Group) ?

    I really would like to know what you think of this game at those casinos:

    I played BJ there since 2008.

    But since the end of 2009, the gameplay changed significantly, in my opinion.

    Maybe it is just my badluck or so. But since they change the graphics of this game, for me, it just doesn't play like a normal BJ anymore:

    It feels like a fruit machine - normally, the dealer gets much too good cards. For example the number of times when he gets 21 are unbelivable. Or the times when you lose after slit, resplit, double...much too often the dealer gets 21 or so.

    Then, eventually, if you get lucky, the whole thing changes and you get much too good cards.

    My feeling is just, that this is not a normal BJ game. It feels, as if the outcome (win or lose) of a game is not by the cards, but it is set before the game.

    And it's not only me: 2 frieds of mine have the same feeling about it. They stopped playing there 2 months ago, because they dont trust them anymore.

    But I am not completely convinced. I've had many great and bad streaks in many diff. casinos and know that BJ can be strange.

    But the experience in English Harbour and Caribbean Gold (o.s.o.) is really different. Its too long. And it nearly feels like this in about every session.

    Are there any members here that can tell me I am completely wrong?

    Because they play there and have noticed nothing of the mentioned things?

    Many thanks,

    poser
     
  2. Mar 14, 2010
  3. 4 of a kind

    4 of a kind Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll

    Occupation:
    Trans. Tech
    Location:
    New York
    Many online players believe because their playing BJ, it should play similar to a live game. If the RTP is set properly it should have the same feel and results as perfect play live would have in the long run.

    Unfortunately, BJ as well as any other card game offered, and including Roulette, Craps, in fact every game offered online are all programs and considered a slot machine when playing online. Many of these games also are offered in the machine version at B&M's, and they also would be considered a slot machine.

    So, when online if the casino has lowered the RTP for lets say the BJ program, over the long run you should be able to recognize that things are just not right, and should pull the plug and try another casino.

    I am very much a consistent video poker player online, and can assure you that things have drastically changed for the worse over the last six months at all three casinos I play at.

    I can speak strongly about video poker and am convinced that online casinos are struggling to survive and have lowered the RTP on all video poker games. I would assume that also would hold true for most other card games. As far as slots go, just read most of the posts here, and it won't take much reading to see the same is true for slot play.

    Tough times call for tough measures. The casinos are just trying to run a business for profit. Like I said several times in the past and I'll say it again.

    If you don't have the bankroll to carry you deep enough to catch that decent hit that lets you keep playing at a somewhat reasonable cost, back off or pull the plug, and wait for better times.

    Cheap buy-ins even with bonuses that once were able to buy you entertaining long sessions are long gone for now.

    In addition my comments above are of my own opinion, and I have no actual facts other then my own experiences and statistics.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Mar 14, 2010
  5. nisosbar

    nisosbar Ueber Meister PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    Right here
    I want to pipe in here that if the game is fair, there shouldn't BE a RTP setting on BJ. RTP refers to the setting on slots, the average percentage of amount wagered which will be returned to the player. If a particular BJ program is being altered for a certain RTP, then it is, de facto, rigged unfairly. The same applies to video poker.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Mar 14, 2010
  7. bernynhel

    bernynhel Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Loafer
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It wouldn't surprise me. Play somewhere else. Several years ago Millionaire Casino refunded money from unfair double-ups in VP once they were accused and, later, exposed for having irregular VP double-up results, though they admitted no intentional wrong-doing. I had called 'em on it and then everything else happened later, independent of my recognizing the problem. I personally received credits of over $50 - and this just for the estimated double-ups in VP I may or may not have experienced over a year or so with modest deposits. Bottom-line: That casino group obviously has total control over RTP of their games - I'd expect in more ways than one they control various game aspects in all games which effect the outcomes.

    @ nisosbar: online, as in b&m video representations of bj and other table games, aren't all software-operated games really slots?
     
  8. Mar 14, 2010
  9. nisosbar

    nisosbar Ueber Meister PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    Right here
    No, absolutely not. Theoretically, the statistics that govern video poker and blackjack online should be absolutely identical to that of a game which could be played at a table in a B&M casino. 52 cards, dealt randomly, every single time.

    Where this differs from video slots like, say, Scary Rich, is that the 'deck of cards' (the icons, like the professor, the vampire, etc.) are altered to the casino operators preferences, so as to gerry-rig the outcomes to a certain payback. You want to give players some fun for their money? Put a vampire icon on every fourth place on the first reel. Need to conserve? Put it on every ninth place. And there is nothing 'rigged' about that - that's how slots are operated. Totally fair and expected. You always expect to lose on video slots.

    But to do this with blackjack, you'd have to have a program that could be told to, for example, give the dealer 21 and the player 19 every single hand. That is unfair.
     
  10. Mar 18, 2010
  11. DarkMage

    DarkMage Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Bond Fund Investor
    Location:
    USA
    Completely correct, the Blackjack being offered by RTG,MG and other software providers is a sham of the game.

    There is absolutely no way the cards are being dealt randomly, everything is preset. The outcome is known when you click "bet"...

    Call it slotjack not BLACKJACK.

    After playing several hundred thousand hands online over the past 2 years I am absolutely convinced that "slotjack" is one of the worst things you can blow your money on.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Mar 18, 2010
  13. Westland Bowl

    Westland Bowl Tin Foil Hat Club Member CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    not applicable
    Location:
    America
    I've won a bit of money even after winning about $40,000 at Heroes Casino. I've done well at a number of other online casinos. However, I started to see much more losing double-downs and splits. It's like they see my betting patterns and the software starts putting these losing double-downs on assumption that I will bet higher on that hand. I experienced this at 7 Sultans.

    I've also noticed that when I start to play blackjack at a new casino, I get losing streaks like crazy. So I just minimum bet the first few games because I know that the casino has to maintain appearances of fair play by bringing overall player win rate back to 43%. (I use moving averages to determine whether a casino "has to" start letting me win more often.)

    I too noticed a change in online casinos since November/December. It appears the casinos are just outright gonna make me lose by just forcing a loss based upon my higher bets. Winning hands would abruptly end when I start betting higher, every damn time the last several months. I've stopped playing online last month and might not play again until some regulatory oversight comes in.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Mar 18, 2010
  15. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    So, can I now say....perfect play isn't the CORRECT way to play for online blackjack as I have been saying for the last year and a half or longer??

    I play at English Harbor and have had many good sessions. The sessions I do is a hit and run one..once I double or get my bankroll up over 2.5 times I leave and go back to slots..it has worked for years..and I NEVER, EVER played blackjack perfectly online just for this reason. I have been argued with by many forum members and including many affiliates with for the last 2 years about this and it finally shows...perfect play is not the way to go as I tried to tell everyone a LONG time ago..

    I am feeling somewhat vindicated once again..

    The thing many of you do not understand is I have been playing online for years...decades ( :lolup: )...and I know what I know and I am not always WRONG as some would like to try to make me out to be.
    .
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Mar 18, 2010
  17. Cant_Get_Right

    Cant_Get_Right Banned User

    Occupation:
    Work For Home
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Same here. I remember my first online experience was in 1998. The name of the casino was Gold Club Casino. Do any remember them from back in the day?
     
  18. Mar 18, 2010
  19. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Been playing since between 94-96 and I think my first RTG was 4 Roses that changed to American Grand...and etc, etc..Yep, was a long time ago...:oops: :)

    .
     
  20. Mar 19, 2010
  21. funeral979

    funeral979 Senior Member PABaccred

    Occupation:
    retail
    Location:
    Texas
    Some spot on posts in this thread!

    I couldn't agree more....especially with Westland Bowls comment about what happens when you up your bets. I have just seen this way to many times. I posted a screenshot in a thread maybe a year ago of a 23 hand losing streak I had at Vegas Casino Online. A couple of skeptics pointed to the fact that on 3 of the hands I made 'minor deviations' from perfect strategy....and therefore shouldn't have the right to bitch. Well, of course it didn't matter what I did.....as soon as I hit bet the software decided I was going to lose that hand no matter what.

    I too like to play slots then switch over to blackjack to boost my bankroll back up....but over the last year this is simply a lost cause. I have literally had over a hundred sessions in the past year end with a long losing streak at blackjack....leaving me staring at a zero balance and asking myself why the **** did I try to kid myself again?? Online blackjack is a farce.
     
  22. Mar 19, 2010
  23. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    So true and right on the mark about the hand play..it really didn't matter what you did from the time you hit that button...

    I have noticed something which I passed along last year or so ago to the skeptics of any play other than perfect play...is that if you play a few hands perfectly and then switch up..the software somehow misses these switches and then catches up..it is like if I play play wrong 5 hands and win/lose, then the next 3-4 hands are guaranteed to play the same and I switch up to play differently..this is how I have been winning there...like training the software on how you play and it takes a few minutes to rewrite itself to follow my next series of play..it is interesting to see...

    I cashed out a few thousand at an RTG casino doing this just for sh*ts and giggles....to prove my theory....but slots is my love...

    I have played hours upon hours on slots with these black jack wins..you got to feel the rhythm...if it is following your play, switch up and you get like a short spell of solid wins...then switch up again...it really is amazing to catch these games in the series of switches..or learning your play..

    but again, I was told this could never happen because it is random....and perfect play was the only way to win at online blackjack...yea...sure...so now others see that the perfect play is all a joke as I did a long, long time ago..

    .
     
  24. Mar 22, 2010
  25. poser

    poser Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Hamburg
    THX for your replies.

    For me I must say, that I think BJ is fair (in the way that it's like offline BJ) in most casinos with big software providers like RTG, MG, Playtech.

    But since 4 to 5 months, playing BJ at Vegas Technology casinos (E.Harbour...) feels so absolutley not random:

    I had so many sessions where the possibility, that this outcome was really randon has been under 1%.

    For example, one of my tests was:

    I just counted the times, when the dealer busted on a 15 or 16 in comparison to what was expected. This was the most impossible outcome!!
     
  26. Mar 23, 2010
  27. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
  28. Mar 23, 2010
  29. same_old

    same_old Dormant account PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    12th man
    Location:
    Australia
    If there is anyone that knows what they are saying about BJ it is you Westland, I know how much you plpay it and I KNOW you have your strategy as well, hence winning $40,000 of a $200 deposit if memory serves me right.

    I bet you've noticed it seems you need to double down on first two cards being a 8,9 or 10 against a dealers hi card, they think you will play perfect strategy and not douoble down and just take the card.

    the other is a dealers first card being say a 4,5 or 6 and you have say 19,20- the dealer will surely push with you if not hit 21.

    AND let's not forget 99% of the time the first hand in your session you will get 17,18 and the dealer will hit 20
    always picture cards for the dealer first hand.

    If you get a BJ make SURE you lower the hand next..

    You've got to look out for ther pattern like Westland said, bet really small the first say 10-15 hands and then you will see when your expected a return on your bet, BUT remember dont bet to high becasue it will pick up on that and bust you out.
     

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