Where is the Law to protect players

yahoo2u2

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Location
UK
Hi All
After reading many posts here, it does make me wonder where the law is to protect players from online casinos that rip players off. How can anyone just setup a "casino" and be allowed to trade without some form of governance? The owners should be put before the courts if they are "stealing" players money.

Am I missing something here?

It just seems to be an open market to either change names and start again.

I have even seen sites that have ripped off slots from other sites Novomatic come to mind here. Just changed the graphics and away they go.

Views or ideas anyone
 

Najasaki

Keep It Simple, Stupid.
PABaccred
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Location
Your Happy Place
Hi All
After reading many posts here, it does make me wonder where the law is to protect players from online casinos that rip players off. How can anyone just setup a "casino" and be allowed to trade without some form of governance? The owners should be put before the courts if they are "stealing" players money.

Am I missing something here?

It just seems to be an open market to either change names and start again.

I have even seen sites that have ripped off slots from other sites Novomatic come to mind here. Just changed the graphics and away they go.

Views or ideas anyone

Laws? We don't need no stinkin' laws!

Seriously though, CM is similar to an antivirus or a Judge Dredd to the con-artistry that rogue
online casinos practice. You being a member and following the accredited online casino section on CM will
make you a super savvy gambler and will keep your chances of getting ripped off slim to none...
If you follow the accredited casino section on CM, of course. :D
 

Richas

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Location
UK
I notice you are in the UK. At the moment most of the remote gambling we have access to is regulated in Gibraltar and the complaints process goes eventually to the GRA. This is the respectable end of the market but the GRA are not quite what I have in mind as a consumer protector when the commissioner Phillip Brear gives written evidence to parliament and says:

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The issue of confused customers has been grossly overstated. Where confusion arises it is often because the brand is a UK ‘High Street’ name, or simply because the language used is English and the customer has failed to read or react (click) to the information on the webpage indicating the relevant regulatory body. Additionally, it is universally the view amongst regulators that the large majority of complainants are remorseful losers seeking to recover losses, or customers who have knowingly breached terms and conditions in their efforts to obtain free bets and other bonuses. When these bets win, the win is declined as the customer has ‘cheated’. The customer then complains.

There is a bill before parliament now which will change the law - hence Philip Brear's supportive letter regarding people who go online to a website of a UK stockmarket listed firm, advertising in the UK and with thousands of offices in the UK assuming that they are getting UK regulation not a bet in Gibraltar. This bill will mean that every site offering remote gambling in the UK will need a UK licence. That licence requires the site to appoint an independent 3rd party arbitrator for disputes that is approved by the UKGC and deemed to have appropriate expertise and independence by them.

The sites will also have to have all their software provided by licenced software providers working to the UKGC technical standards.

This is a big leap forward in legislative protection but the Gib based sites are likely to sue the UK government for doing this. They claim that this is just about taxes not consumer protection. It isn't just about tax, that is probably the main motive but for anyone using remote gambling services in the UK this is a far far better arrangement.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
The problem is that the laws that apply are those of the country from which the casino operates. The internet makes it easy to pick and choose where to base operations, and this means that regulatory jurisdictions have to compete with each other. The WAY they compete is often NOT in the interests of the player. If a casino operator thinks one regulator is being too harsh, they just run to a more friendly one, and there is nothing to stop them doing this. Indeed, some operate from countries that have NO regulation, but who's governments will allow them to set up servers and fleece the rest of the world, but not fleece local players. Costa Rica is one such place, it has NO regulatory body for gambling, but operators can operate under a standard offshore company license, employ sufficient locals, and block locals from using the service, and the government will leave them to get on with it.

The Costa Rican government HAVE acted against gambling operators, but not to protect players, but to protect local workers where there are indications that an operator is about to "do a runner" leaving local workers unpaid, and company fees and taxes unpaid.

The UK laws coming into force will NOT protect UK players from being fleeced by operators based outside of the EU, and these rogues will simply use the internet to target new players, something largely unaffected by the accompanying restrictions on advertising in the media that come both with the current whitelist arrangement, and the new secondary licensing one.

If Palace of Chance spams UK players from Costa Rica, tells them they are "legally insured", and they play and get ripped off, there is NOTHING the UKGC can do about it. At best, they could ask the major ISPs to block such sites, or banks to block the deposits, but the US has been doing this since 2006, and still cannot stop Palace of Chance or the rest of the Virtual stable from fleecing US players.
 

bigjohn

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Northeast Coastal USA
The entire internet is kind of like the wild west of US lore. There are small sections that are regulated and controlled but for the most part it is anything goes.

If you run a website of any kind that is objectionable or immoral or deemed illegal you may be frowned upon but there is very little enforcement that can remove your site completely and ban you from opening another one with the same objective. The bottom line is you are basically on your own.

The only way to survive is for people with similar interests to band together and keep each other informed. CM have taken it a step further and asked participating websites to conform to a certain set of standards, hence, the accredited list.

The only international law is the law of the purse. If all the players in the world were to play at only CM accredited casinos the accredited list would grow quickly and sites that did not comply with the standards set here would disappear instantly. I don't feel that would be an ideal situation because it might not let small startup operations flourish and there is a certain charm to The Wild West.
 

Richas

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Location
UK
The UK laws coming into force will NOT protect UK players from being fleeced by operators based outside of the EU, and these rogues will simply use the internet to target new players, something largely unaffected by the accompanying restrictions on advertising in the media that come both with the current whitelist arrangement, and the new secondary licensing one.

If Palace of Chance spams UK players from Costa Rica, tells them they are "legally insured", and they play and get ripped off, there is NOTHING the UKGC can do about it. At best, they could ask the major ISPs to block such sites, or banks to block the deposits, but the US has been doing this since 2006, and still cannot stop Palace of Chance or the rest of the Virtual stable from fleecing US players.

Well the new law stops them advertising in the UK without a UKGC licence and makes it an offence for them to offer the service without the licence. This means that the government can act against them including seizing funds. The advertising restriction include internet adverts.

It also makes it far clearer for everyone - no UKGC licence then they are criminal rogue, avoid. This change is a huge step in the right direction - not least as all UKGC sites will have to offer a proper 3rd party complaint process.

Fleecing US players is made possible by refusing them properly run, legal regulated sites to use.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Well the new law stops them advertising in the UK without a UKGC licence and makes it an offence for them to offer the service without the licence. This means that the government can act against them including seizing funds. The advertising restriction include internet adverts.

It also makes it far clearer for everyone - no UKGC licence then they are criminal rogue, avoid. This change is a huge step in the right direction - not least as all UKGC sites will have to offer a proper 3rd party complaint process.

Fleecing US players is made possible by refusing them properly run, legal regulated sites to use.

Yes, but if their funds are outside the EU, it all depends on the cooperation of the licensing jurisdiction. The US seize funds, but it hasn't stopped the rogues, only the legit sites. The rogues don't care, if funds get seized, that's the players' problem, not theirs. Legit sites will at least pay the player again a different way, but many have pulled out of the US because they can no longer afford to work around the ban.

Internet advertising cannot be stopped because much of it is done through spamming, and the rest via sites out of the reach of the authorities. The only chance the UK has is requiring the blocking of sites flouting the rules, making it much harder for unlicensed casinos to get hold of newbies and casual players. The dedicated will circumvent the blocks, but in the full knowledge that they are unprotected by the UK regulations.

The UK courts have dictated that Pirate Bay be blocked, yet the knowledgeable user can easily circumvent the ban and access the site. Like the rogues, Pirate Bay are determined not to let the laws of individual countries get in the way of "freedom", and have chosen a jurisdiction that does not fully cooperate with takedown orders for the site.

If cross border action was possible, I am sure the US would have shut down Costa Rica as a base of operations soon after UIGEA was passed by using it's diplomatic, even military, muscle. They have used the military to shut down drug routes from Latin America, often overruling the governments in charge.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
Look at the disgraceful Purple Lounge exit from the casino market. The same people involved are setting up a new operation. Betfair is still going strong, and Rushmore is still going. And the same people involved are setting up a new operation. CM accreditation and possibly even courts can't truly protect people.

Legal action often has to be started in foreign countries, which can be very expensive. There do not seem to be many lawyers that specialize in the field, although as the markets grow, there will be more I expect.

I think it's great protection for the player is improving at least for the UK.

Some provincial lottery corporations in Canada have launched online casinos. I'll probably join when they come to Ontario, I'm just hoping I don't lose my current options due to legislation.

I think if I want to put my faith in an overseas casino, I should still be allowed to. I do have faith in some casinos, and that (usually) the CM accredited ones abide by PAB decisions. I'm glad that this resource is out there for the Wild West.

I wish more people did a little investigating and self-educating before plunking down their hard earned money.
 

SirWegs

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Location
Stockholm
Hi All
After reading many posts here, it does make me wonder where the law is to protect players from online casinos that rip players off. How can anyone just setup a "casino" and be allowed to trade without some form of governance? The owners should be put before the courts if they are "stealing" players money.

Am I missing something here?

It just seems to be an open market to either change names and start again.

I have even seen sites that have ripped off slots from other sites Novomatic come to mind here. Just changed the graphics and away they go.

Views or ideas anyone

There is no laws, specially if you play at casino outside EU. You have no chance againts them, Game Over.

Easy tip, dont play with bonuses, usual that is the biggest rip off.
 

requiem

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 12, 2012
Location
Europe
Well it is not only Casinos, which rips people off. There are shady businesses in all areas. So you have to do your research about the casino, like you should for any other company, and then use CM when a problem arise. But established casinos are starting to understand that loyal customers are good for business. So they can't behave in a rogue way without it being to hurtful for the business in the long run. There is also great oppurtunity for new casinos to market themselves for the players, and take different actions to make sure they are not cheating the players.

Just use whatever information out there to make the best decision.
 

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