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When do bonus playthrough rules stop applying ?

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by davos11, Jun 11, 2015.

    Jun 11, 2015
  1. davos11

    davos11 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    uk
    Out of interest and seeing as though terms and conditions never actually give you the information you need or is made as unclear as possible i thought i'd ask here ,

    Lets say the likes of excluded games , max stake etc... , If you play an excluded game or exceed maximum stake but do this after clearing all wagering on a bonus ,Have you still broken the rules ? , Has anyone had past experience with this ?

    In my mind once that money stops being bonus funds and becomes real cash it is surely yours to do as you choose .Obviously this would be what you expect and this is exactly why i'm asking as most terms nowadays prey on ignorance .

    I played a bonus last week and cleared the wagering following all rules , i continued to play with the real cash and about 24/48 hours later and 1000s of spins later i realised i had increased my stake over what would have been the max bet rule if i was playing with bonus funds ,only for about 10 spins but enough for me to start to worry a little .

    I cant see that i have done anything wrong but as we know casinos dedicate more staff to flicking through our play histroy trying to find anyway to screw us then they employ support staff or banking staff haha
     
  2. Jun 11, 2015
  3. Casino2014man

    Casino2014man Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    Noneya
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I have done this at a few casinos.

    Some are fine with it - Thrills yesterday for example :p

    Others can be a bit less fine with it from what I have heard.
     
  4. Jun 11, 2015
  5. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    As above, some are OK, others are not.
    As a general rule I would say you are probably OK at most MG / NetEnt etc. casinos, and possibly NOT OK at some RTG, Rival & Playtech casinos.

    But the only way to be 100% sure, is check with the casino first! (After the WR and before playing on).
    Get it in writing too - either by e-mail or a screenshot of your chat.

    KK
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jun 11, 2015
  7. davos11

    davos11 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    uk
    Thanks guys , Its just so complicated nowadays , I mean i dont even know if i techincaly broke the max bet as i did one of those superspins you get on the new barcrest slots , SO even though your paying say £20 for that "bet" , the actual spin bet is still only £1 as usuall , also you get 5 spins for that super spin .....

    I mean does that count as one £20 bet , five £1 spins with added bonuses or five £4 spins by dividing the £20 super bet by the 5 spins you get making each spin £4 ?

    How in the hell are we really supposed to know whats going on haha ???
     
  8. Jun 11, 2015
  9. Casino2014man

    Casino2014man Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    Noneya
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I am 99.999999% sure they would count it as a £20 bet, as they do with gamble features if you try and double the bet etc they go with the highest bit ;)
     
  10. Jun 11, 2015
  11. davos11

    davos11 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    uk
    Its funny how out of the three potential bet types they would class it as the one that means they can confiscate your money haha , Thisis the type of thing they should have in there terms rather than leave it to opinion or guessing ,
    In hindsight i should have asked first but at the time ( and currently ) i thought ( and think haha ) that the money was mine as i had obviously completed all wagering some days ago and could have withdrawn the money .

    If i was to lose out because of this i will be calling it a day on online casinos as it is just getting silly now ..
     
  12. Jun 11, 2015
  13. Casino2014man

    Casino2014man Non-Gambler

    Occupation:
    Noneya
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Which casino is it?

    Some will be fine, because once you complete wagering they class it as your cash to do what you like with :p

    If I was a casino, I would do the same as doing £20 bets you are more likely to lose it than doing £1 bets!
     
  14. Jun 11, 2015
  15. hedgehok

    hedgehok Meister Member mm3

    Occupation:
    self-employed
    Location:
    Germany
    I recommend to avoid any hassle by withdrawing or continue playing according to any bonus-rules.
    However you should be just fine when playing at any accredited casinos.
     
  16. Jun 11, 2015
  17. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    What you are doing, in my opinion, is giving a casino an excuse to not pay you if they don't want to. My guess is that most will pay but if you're playing a dodgy casino, or a casino feels something isn't right, or they think you "abused" the bonus (never quite got that one!) or were part of some sort of group then they could use that to avoid paying you.

    And we shouldn't forget that the bottom line is that some players are potentially profitable to a casino and others aren't. I would suggest that if you give them cause to examine your game-play, many casinos will categorise you and their decision will be based on whether they think you have the potential to be profitable to them. From what I have heard, this is not just based on what you deposit but more on how you play: what games, bet sizes, betting patterns, cashout frequency, reverses etc.
     
  18. Jun 11, 2015
  19. davos11

    davos11 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    uk
    I do follow all the terms and conditions , My point is there are no terms and conditions for my query ,
    I'm sure they are aware that this type of thing happens and im sure its happened with them many times and im also sure they come down on one side or another ,
    The terms mention about the max bet rule while "wagering" a bonus playthrough but not about after you've completed a playthrough when the funds turn from "bonus blance" to "real balance" .

    I 100% met all the bonus wagering within there terms , Only when it was my own withdrawable money did i try a few superspins .

    I'd rather not mention names and if all goes well i will let you all know for future refrence .
     
  20. Jun 11, 2015
  21. citizenx

    citizenx Non-Gambler MM

    Occupation:
    Stuff
    Location:
    UK

    I'm sure with the most reputable casinos you have no issue. The money is converted to real funds and can be used in any way you like.

    Other less reputable companies may not be so straightforward as others have pointed out.

    If it was me I'd cash out and deposit elsewhere or back into the same casino if I felt there was any cause for concern. That way there is no argument.

    That said, I only play reputable and accredited casinos where I just know this wouldn't be an issue.
     
  22. Jun 11, 2015
  23. davos11

    davos11 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    uk
    Thanks Simmo ,
    In your opinion what should be done about this type of casino ?( not my case but in general ) , As it does seem now a large amount of casinos ( even verified ) make a habit not to mention a fortune by over complicating terms and conditions or using there "DISCRETION" ( i hate that one ) to screw customers out of the hard earned winnings

    It honestly seems like its becoming a culture now ,This type of thing would never happen in a land based casino , INFACT in land based terms this is how my week went

    I went to the casino with £30 and they gave me a £30 match , theres a playthrough , After hours i get through it with some winnings , take my winnig receipt to the cashout and head home with my winnings ....

    Two days later i return to the same casino with some of those winnings and start playing at a higher stake , The bouncer comes over takes all the oney out of my wallet and chucks my out the fire exit ......:(

    We would not dream of accepting this in real life but in the online world its got that bad that we do .
     
  24. Jun 11, 2015
  25. davos11

    davos11 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    uk
    Oh sorry i forgot to mention that it is a reputable site and part of the UKGC , I have played there a long time and made many withdrawals , I see them as being trustworthy but as with all casinos have no morals whatsoever ;) ,

    really appreciate all the feedback and i am confident things should be ok but to me its just another grey area ,An unwritten rule and we all usually know what happens when things are left to the discretion of a casino .
     
  26. Jun 11, 2015
  27. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    You have to accept that a land-based casino and an online casino are very different beasts. For a start, online casinos are way more accessible and land casinos have you ID'ed before you get a bonus, making it far easy to get bonuses online. Whether we like it or not, there are lots of fraudulent players and multi-accounters as a result that make life harder for everyone else. That said, it is a culture that the casinos themselves have invited so I rarely have any sympathy for a casino in a bonus-related dispute.
     
  28. Jun 11, 2015
  29. davos11

    davos11 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    uk
    Sure land based casinos make you show i.d before betting/wagering but online casinos make you show i.d before withdrawing so both still require I.D before they are at any liability.

    Obviously Online casinos could and probabaly should require I.D before depositing but as i said above they are not at any liability or loss until the players wins , In a way its like inviting illegal players to to play and lose ,As winning would never be an option since they would not pass verification .

    In my opinion most business use terms and conditions to protect there money , The online casino industry seem to use terms and conditions to boost profits .This is why i think i may have played my last bonus , Also after reading the thread about the sign up bonuses last week , Gone our the days of the 200/300% bonuses with 20x playthrough ,

    In recent weks my favourite site has gone from the 25x d+b to 30xd+b and on top of that it has reduced the slots i play to 75% contribution meaning its not an almost 40x b+d

    I honestly would think the industry would be pushing bonuses more as unless your Rainman your going to come a cropper at least once or twice saving them massive amounts in what would otherwise be payouts
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Jun 11, 2015
  31. muziq

    muziq Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    govt
    Location:
    in your heart
    always stick to the terms when you take bonus regardless of bonus waging over or not
    why risk a potential cash out even some times chat can be confusing also

    keep the same rule you reverse a withdrawal too

    there is thread about fenix casino denied withdrawal after a part of it was reversed and played with high bet

    my advice is if you take bonus stick to terms if you dont like the terms dont take it ...
     
  32. Jun 11, 2015
  33. davos11

    davos11 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    self employed
    Location:
    uk
    Thanks muziq ,

    I didn't ( i dont think ) break the rules and certainly didnt do it knowingly ,
    Like i said there is no written term or rule for the question i am asking and i never ever usually bet high stakes ,Aside from the few super spins / high roller stakes i did , my stake never exceeded 0.80p a spin , It was part of a long session and i didnt have much balance left and thought i would give these super spins a try as i had no idea what they did , And it was then only a day later when i wondered if doing those spins had maybe breached a term , I checked the terms and it only mentions max bet rules during wagering of bonus money , There is no information for wagering and stakes when the money becomes "real money" / withdrawable as surely then the money becomes like it would be if you depsoited without using a bonus , Just standard "real money"

    To make it clear i had completed all wagering requirements within the rules 100% before i tried the super spins about a day or so after using my real money / withdrawable balance .

    I do always read the rules and i have played alot of places over the years ,MY problem was more that casino management can make up rules at there own discretion and if something is a grey area or borderline then i tend to worry a bit .
     

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