Whats a Normal Losing Streak look like?

[jimb123]

I just got done reading about "Spinners" losing streak of about $10k at Titan (RTG). I wont go into all the ranting there. But it did make me think.

I'm down about $60,000 now at Microgaming Casinos.
I've gotten 1 win of 2700x my bet ($2 -- whoohoo!!)
No other spins 1000x my bet (video slots)
I think 2 RFs -- 1 single line and 1 during 4play (no pat)
Proably a few dozen $500 to $800 wins on $1 to $3 bets.

Not bad I suppose although it's all gone. But all of that was in the previous years. But No "big" wins since late 2008 except for one Dueces Wild win of $500 on a $1.25 bet I think early this year.

For 2010, it's sucking hardcore at MCG
Here's an email from my Casino Rewards VIP rep on my stats for 2010 as of a few weeks ago (I've tried a little more since but no luck).

<<<email from CasinoRewards:
Lucky Emporer 2010 - deposit: $2,125.80 no withdrawals!
Golden Tiger 2010 - deposit: $2731.71 no withdrawals
Captain Cooks 2010 - deposit: $1444.92 no withdrawals!
Sorry about the layout was the easiest way to do it!
I hope that helps,i couldn't credit you a bonus right now which was annoying but don't worry i am checking to see if you deposit >>>>

1) Average deposit I'd say is $100 (so 60 deposits avgd)
2) Avg bet size $1
3) Biggest win that I recall $500 on 1.25 bet (video poker)
4) Not included above is probably another $1000 in free VIP chips which I used
5) I did have 1 or 2 chances to cashout so far this year for about $500 each but couldnt wait the 48hr timeframe. I did ask for flushing but got no response from support or VIP due to my winning in the weekend.
6) As far as I know I've gotten at least $10k in VIP chips over the years from them and maybe 1 or 2x met the wagering requirements. But don't quote me on that. Just my memory.
7) I really like the variations of the games. Substituting wilds, stacked wilds, no paylines (ways), pick your multiplier, retriggering free spins, high max payouts 50,000x line bet on 1 game and several that have 10,000x to 20,000x. Then add in free spins pays 2x or 3x that.. wow. Big potential. So I played there even though I lost cuz being in the U.S. I thought that's about all I had to choose from.. I tried SuperSlots.. i hated those games.

Anyway, seems like something has changed in 2010 (my humble view). So I have gone looking at RTG, Rival and 3dice -- only to lose another $4k with only 1 cashout possible (Rival Slotso) for $150 ($26 bonus which I got as high as $2300 but then they said fine print is $150 max cashout.. bummer). When I tried Rival with all cash, I can barely manage a bonus round with a 10x bet. 3dice has been even worse although VP wasnt half bad. RTG looks neat with RJs (and I'm in U.S. so that's new to me vs. Microgaming no jackpot rule) but not able to win more than $50 on a spin so far at CherryRed or Inetbet or Lock.

NET: Do casinos have any kind of obligation to making sure players get some sort of fair payout/play over time?
I've made over 1million spins easily at MCG (Golden Tiger, Lucky Emperor, etc). I stopped tracking my spins on spreadsheet in 2010 so I'm sure its much higher now. Only hit 5 scatters 1x. 5 wilds 1x. 1 win worth over $2500 (Betting $1 to as much as $10/spin -- though norm is $1 to $2).

My VIP rep said in the email above "no more free credits for now" but that was in response to my asking what the VIP credits are for. He said they were to 'help offset and minimize losses". Uhmmm I told him I dont think I ever made the WR in all these years on the creidits -- if I had it was a few times and nothing big really. So I felt like yeah I got $10k or more in free credits but so what?

I'm not looking for recourse. I just joined CM in December.. just wondering how does one know when its time to move on from a Casino? I like building up the VIP loyalty/trust relationship so constantly moving around doesnt excite me. But losing all the time and seeing $100 to $300 go away in 30mins isnt fun either. I read other bad streaks at Rival and RTG arent so uncommon either.
3dice looks even worse. You pretty much have to hit a 1 in x Millions chance on a RJ or 5 wilds to win 500x your bet or more.

So are we all really gambling against Millions to 1 that we win something that pays 500 to 1? Sure if you get streaky and win 5 RJ in a week, great. Or even just 1 if its big enough. But for Microgaming with no jackpots/progressives. I'm wondering if anyone really can get ahead with them -- or even break even. The deeper in the hole I get, the more it seems impossible to win my money back.

That would be different on Cherry Red where RTG RJs are $5k to $100k in some instances. Of course that's a pipe dream too. But I just spent $60k or so to get 1 RF $2500 and 1 $5000 5 wilds spin. I'm simplifying but u get the point. Might as well move to a reliable RTG casino -- if there is one. So far can't find luck anywhere.

Maybe the industry as a whole has tightened up? B&M casinos typically at least let me play for a nite on $300 to $400 -- meaning 10hrs or so of play -- vs 30mins online

Hope I didnt offend anyone. Just food (alot of it) for thought. Cheers!

 

[silcnlayc]

This is just my opinion and view of things that has happened in the last few years of online gaming and what has happened.

The casinos have gotten cocky, the ones serving the USA since the UIGEA and feel they can control the payouts to the minimum since they have complete control of the market.

The USA casinos have also decided that the players playing the games are ready to be fleeced since there is no control over them and no recourse and the players keep coming back to prove them right.

Players willing to play now at any casino left in the USA will be doing themselves a dis-service if they feel they might "win" something.

Players need to play ONLY for fun and entertainment and not expect any thing other than a nice quick spin or two anymore.

Players also need to go to their B&M casinos, those close enough to do this because at least there, you get a nice bang for your buck in comps such as free food, free money, free rooms, free shows and concerts.

And when I read this

jimb123: I like building up the VIP loyalty/trust relationship

all I could think of was that many players have been fooled and brought into a false sense of trust with these casinos. Casinos that have no one watching over them. Players need to remember that they are faceless entitites to these casinos and the only value we as players have is our money. Once the money stops , you are no longer a valued player or a VIP etc , etc...do not be fooled into thinking that they care...they DON"T!

So, that is my thoughts on this online gambling farce as of lately...I still dabble a few bucks now and then but not even close to what I did 3 years ago after seeing the changes in the play on these slots...I believe now, the casinos pretty much just think we in the USA are just nuts, or easy pickings or not smart at all because they can and they have pretty much become thieves without a conscience.

Do not get me wrong, I believe that there are great casinos still out there in customer support and quick paying etc...but think of it this way...what do they have to lose ? They got you (the US players) by the houdini's...so they know you will be back over and over again as long as you are being treated good in terms of servies...and they know they will get it all in the end without having to give any kind of enjoyment or value for YOUR money anymore because they CAN..

Once the money has dried up from you as a player...you will be persona non grata no matter how nice they were to you before, you will not get that again till you become a sytematic depositor again. Yes, you will pay them to be nice to you even if you get nothing other than a nice thank you from them....they KNOW this...

Till the tide turns, we are held hostage to their greed....if we continue to feed them believing we are bound to get value for our money soon...which is another false impression given out freely by many...

.

 

[Mavin1]

Good post JMB123! I have done my fair share of ranting, mostly because of RTG, this I find for me is the worst for return over the long haul in my opinion. But having said that, what is bad for one may be good for another. Many of us, individually come to the conclusion that a person can win the first time out while others can deposit dozens or more times and not get a hint of anything more than just prolonging the inevitable end of your deposit.

I personally still feel that things have changed across the board in this industry, but no matter what we feel or evidence we present, nothing will ever be changed as we are just the ones spending our money, while others are making up the rules we have to accept.

It is to bad that we are forced to accept things as they are. But being players/gamblers, we can take a very long time, working it out in our minds as to whether this form of "entertainment" is worth funding at all anymore.

The difference for all of us to play/gamble online, compared to going to the movies or watching tv or whatever, is we have not been looking for meare entertainment, but for the return that casinos, unlike our tv screens, give something back, to keep us coming back.

Sadly more players may be finding themselves on the "Spinner" end of the scale when they keep trying to chase the rainbow, playing with the thought that soon it will turn around and start dumping winnings on the determined player.

But you have to also take into consideration, that while you are playing, so are thousands of others and when the hot streaks do start "popping", it may be one of the other players reaping the benefits from it and not you. This was something I had to come to the conclusion of for myself personally as the stats of RNG, RTP and so on, just didn't satisfy my thinking. Saying that you have to spin a million spins to hit such and such, well my thinking is that number should be significantly cut down when adding into the equation the number of other players also playing at the same time.

So if I personally have to spin x-amount of times to see a decent hit, then I question the random theory. But if a thousand players are also spinning and the million spins are reached much quicker, then the random theory is perfectly acceptable, I just may not be the one to be awarded that good hit, as I am competeing for them with all these other players.

So, my opinion, a player could get lucky right off, rarely, or never. With so many people all around the planet playing against you, this can seriously affect the outcome on a personal basis much more than it did years ago when there were less people playing/gambling online.

So who can we thank for this? Well, gee, maybe the Affiliates for doing such a great job promoting!!!!

 

[just play]

Whats a Normal Losing Streak look like

Follow me around for a while.

 

[Cant_Get_Right]

I just got done reading about "Spinners" losing streak of about $10k at Titan (RTG). I wont go into all the ranting there. But it did make me think.

I'm down about $60,000 now at Microgaming Casinos.
<<<email from CasinoRewards:
Lucky Emporer 2010 - deposit: $2,125.80 no withdrawals!
Golden Tiger 2010 - deposit: $2731.71 no withdrawals
Captain Cooks 2010 - deposit: $1444.92 no withdrawals!


1) Average deposit I'd say is $100 (so 60 deposits avgd)
2) Avg bet size $1
3) Biggest win that I recall $500 on 1.25 bet (video poker)
4) Not included above is probably another $1000 in free VIP chips which I used
5) I did have 1 or 2 chances to cashout so far this year for about $500 each but couldnt wait the 48hr timeframe. I did ask for flushing but got no response from support or VIP due to my winning in the weekend.
6) As far as I know I've gotten at least $10k in VIP chips over the years from them and maybe 1 or 2x met the wagering requirements. But don't quote me on that. Just my memory.
7) I really like the variations of the games. Substituting wilds, stacked wilds, no paylines (ways), pick your multiplier, retriggering free spins, high max payouts 50,000x line bet on 1 game and several that have 10,000x to 20,000x. Then add in free spins pays 2x or 3x that.. wow. Big potential. So I played there even though I lost cuz being in the U.S. I thought that's about all I had to choose from.. I tried SuperSlots.. i hated those games.

Anyway, seems like something has changed in 2010 (my humble view). So I have gone looking at RTG, Rival and 3dice -- only to lose another $4k with only 1 cashout possible (Rival Slotso) for $150 ($26 bonus which I got as high as $2300 but then they said fine print is $150 max cashout.. bummer). When I tried Rival with all cash, I can barely manage a bonus round with a 10x bet. 3dice has been even worse although VP wasnt half bad. RTG looks neat with RJs (and I'm in U.S. so that's new to me vs. Microgaming no jackpot rule) but not able to win more than $50 on a spin so far at CherryRed or Inetbet or Lock.

NET: Do casinos have any kind of obligation to making sure players get some sort of fair payout/play over time?
I've made over 1million spins easily at MCG (Golden Tiger, Lucky Emperor, etc). I stopped tracking my spins on spreadsheet in 2010 so I'm sure its much higher now. Only hit 5 scatters 1x. 5 wilds 1x. 1 win worth over $2500 (Betting $1 to as much as $10/spin -- though norm is $1 to $2).

My VIP rep said in the email above "no more free credits for now" but that was in response to my asking what the VIP credits are for. He said they were to 'help offset and minimize losses". Uhmmm I told him I dont think I ever made the WR in all these years on the creidits -- if I had it was a few times and nothing big really. So I felt like yeah I got $10k or more in free credits but so what?

I'm not looking for recourse. I just joined CM in December.. just wondering how does one know when its time to move on from a Casino? I like building up the VIP loyalty/trust relationship so constantly moving around doesnt excite me. But losing all the time and seeing $100 to $300 go away in 30mins isnt fun either. I read other bad streaks at Rival and RTG arent so uncommon either.
3dice looks even worse. You pretty much have to hit a 1 in x Millions chance on a RJ or 5 wilds to win 500x your bet or more.

So are we all really gambling against Millions to 1 that we win something that pays 500 to 1? Sure if you get streaky and win 5 RJ in a week, great. Or even just 1 if its big enough. But for Microgaming with no jackpots/progressives. I'm wondering if anyone really can get ahead with them -- or even break even. The deeper in the hole I get, the more it seems impossible to win my money back.

That would be different on Cherry Red where RTG RJs are $5k to $100k in some instances. Of course that's a pipe dream too. But I just spent $60k or so to get 1 RF $2500 and 1 $5000 5 wilds spin. I'm simplifying but u get the point. Might as well move to a reliable RTG casino -- if there is one. So far can't find luck anywhere.

Maybe the industry as a whole has tightened up? B&M casinos typically at least let me play for a nite on $300 to $400 -- meaning 10hrs or so of play -- vs 30mins online

Hope I didnt offend anyone. Just food (alot of it) for thought. Cheers!

Simple Solution - All you have to do is Quit gambling and you won't have those problems.

 

[jimb123]

Thanks

Simple Solution - All you have to do is Quit gambling and you won't have those problems.

===
Yeah kinda figured that out lol. But financially I'm ok -- but not wanting to throw away another $50k to $60k if the industry truly has changed and the only place to win $2000, $5000 or more is in Vegas - not online.

It's not all in my head. In 2007/2008 I know I had many many cashouts and many more that I reversed. In 2009 dropped off a cliff. 2010 - NONE. As things worsened, my VIP rep just said keep playing, your big hit will come. Or "results will average out over over time." I kept asking how many spins and how much money before statistically we could say the sw isn't averaging out for me. Just told to keep trying.

I'm not blaming anyone but myself. Just trying to better understand what we're all up against. I'm willing to risk several thousand to try to win something big -- like with RTG and the random jackpots (provided we can determine which casinos truly do it fairly --> ie: does any1 really think 1 person could hit 5 RJs in a week? that story really upset me as smells fishy. Might be legit, but that's gotta be billions to 1.)

Anyway, just thought I'd try to determine if we all are really now risking thousands of dollars to win hundreds.

If the top payouts are billions to 1 (cashapillar) or the games never pay and the feature rarely trigger, then whats the point?

Surely somewhere there's a legit casino with big payouts that publicizes their take in and payouts and has good service. Right? (okay start throwing tomatoes lol)

Guess I'm trying to work out in my head if its worth playing online anymore. What is certain is I think I will play alot less and probably will up my bets. So if I put in $100.. rather than playing $1/spin. I may start raising that to $3. I may lose quicker but if I do hit, it'll be 3x as much. That's if I dont quit.

The more I read the bad beats, bad service, "changed industry" and so on here.. the more it sounds like there's just no legit regulation of the industry and no one is accountable and we're all just sheep. Are we? lol

ps.. forgot to add.. by playing at home.. I cant even get free beer and there are no giant statues of Roman gods to make me feel like I'm in another dimension and I'm destined for great things

 

[RedAndi]

Maybe the industry as a whole has tightened up? B&M casinos typically at least let me play for a nite on $300 to $400 -- meaning 10hrs or so of play -- vs 30mins online

LOL, I had to jump in and say it's so easy to lose that much at a B & M in a short time also!
I have burned through 300-400 in about 2-3 hours playing 25 cent video poker many times. Just depends on how my luck is running and how tight the machines are.
Not defending online casinos at all, just admitting to having bad luck runs in the real also

 

[jimb123]

Agreed Red

BM casinos u can lose too. But my experiences are that I last far longer at a BM casino on $300 to $500 then I do online. Now, my dad will go with me and lose that in 30mins... or he'll collect a nice handpay. Somehow I'm in the middle. I dont win huge but I dont lose right away either 9 of 10 times.

But then I do walk around and 'see' other people win and stop and look at the scenery. There's no AutoPlay. So it all goes much slower. Like I said, there's free drinks -- on occasion an attractive woman who thinks I'm really interesting -- until I realize she's trying to win back her losses for the morning (uh hem dont read into that lol).

But playing at home, I can watch TV and sort of ignore my losing streak and play in my pajamas. And of course the money i save on gas will get me another 50 spins on Thunderstruck!

In 2007/2008 I'd have said I like online better, but I'm quickly changing my stance. To each his own.

 

[RedAndi]

Like I said, there's free drinks -- on occasion an attractive woman who thinks I'm really interesting -- until I realize she's trying to win back her losses for the morning (uh hem dont read into that lol).
QUOTE]

Hey! So that was YOU! lol j/k

And yeah, I do play a little wilder at B & M's cause to me it's exciting to be there and I just get nuts wanting to play and play and play... then *poof* the bankroll is gone. I am not the "smart" gambler by any means.

 

[cheetahwind]

iNetBet does a pretty good job on publicizing payout percentages.

On this page, it even compares to some US States.

Old / Expired Link

Hence why I love playing with them because they at least give you the straight up honest answer.
That's my two cents at least.
Otherwise some others you can just tell they've been hit hard by this economy, just because the slots barely play, and the randoms just take forever to go up. To me the sign of a good casino is when randoms go up rather quickly. You know that people are at least playing at them. Even if the randoms are condensed it's a good sign.
The only thing I haven't quite figured out if the return is good enough for me yet. Is online blackjack and poker. Just because I could swear to you. There are days I can win like it's going out of style. Other days it seems like the RNG can't produce a good set of cards for me at all. At least on the blackjack side.
On the poker side I can't determine if it's because I'm a newb of people are just downright dumb at low player tables, but I rarely can win enough hands for me to be enticed by online poker.
So for me right now I will say I'm on a loosing streak, but I hate to say it. I expect it because I am a bonus player and will probably always be. The most I ever deposit is like $50, so for me to take a bonus. It gives me a boost of cash and helps me bet higher than I would have if I would done my regular deposit.
So good post, but also this post could be used as the ones who are complaining being the ones who are problem gamblers.
I use this as purely a form of entertainment vs investing hundreds of dollars. For what? A few thousand? I mean if you hit jackpot cleo, pinatas, or shopping spree great. That's a great investment. Otherwise stocks seem much more safer to me.

 

[jimb123]

OT

iNetBet does a pretty good job on publicizing payout percentages.

On this page, it even compares to some US States.

Old / Expired Link

Hence why I love playing with them because they at least give you the straight up honest answer.
That's my two cents at least.
Otherwise some others you can just tell they've been hit hard by this economy, just because the slots barely play, and the randoms just take forever to go up. To me the sign of a good casino is when randoms go up rather quickly. You know that people are at least playing at them. Even if the randoms are condensed it's a good sign.
The only thing I haven't quite figured out if the return is good enough for me yet. Is online blackjack and poker. Just because I could swear to you. There are days I can win like it's going out of style. Other days it seems like the RNG can't produce a good set of cards for me at all. At least on the blackjack side.
On the poker side I can't determine if it's because I'm a newb of people are just downright dumb at low player tables, but I rarely can win enough hands for me to be enticed by online poker.
So for me right now I will say I'm on a loosing streak, but I hate to say it. I expect it because I am a bonus player and will probably always be. The most I ever deposit is like $50, so for me to take a bonus. It gives me a boost of cash and helps me bet higher than I would have if I would done my regular deposit.
So good post, but also this post could be used as the ones who are complaining being the ones who are problem gamblers.
I use this as purely a form of entertainment vs investing hundreds of dollars. For what? A few thousand? I mean if you hit jackpot cleo, pinatas, or shopping spree great. That's a great investment. Otherwise stocks seem much more safer to me.

===
Agreed.. i have an acct with inetbet and I do like that the RJ values are low - meaning someone is winning them alot vs CherryRed where they are $10k or higher - alot higher.

So I may give them some more time.. thx

 

[chuchu59]

iNetBet does a pretty good job on publicizing payout percentages.

On this page, it even compares to some US States.

Old / Expired Link

Hence why I love playing with them because they at least give you the straight up honest answer.
That's my two cents at least.
Otherwise some others you can just tell they've been hit hard by this economy, just because the slots barely play, and the randoms just take forever to go up. To me the sign of a good casino is when randoms go up rather quickly. You know that people are at least playing at them. Even if the randoms are condensed it's a good sign.
The only thing I haven't quite figured out if the return is good enough for me yet. Is online blackjack and poker. Just because I could swear to you. There are days I can win like it's going out of style. Other days it seems like the RNG can't produce a good set of cards for me at all. At least on the blackjack side.
On the poker side I can't determine if it's because I'm a newb of people are just downright dumb at low player tables, but I rarely can win enough hands for me to be enticed by online poker.
So for me right now I will say I'm on a loosing streak, but I hate to say it. I expect it because I am a bonus player and will probably always be. The most I ever deposit is like $50, so for me to take a bonus. It gives me a boost of cash and helps me bet higher than I would have if I would done my regular deposit.
So good post, but also this post could be used as the ones who are complaining being the ones who are problem gamblers.
I use this as purely a form of entertainment vs investing hundreds of dollars. For what? A few thousand? I mean if you hit jackpot cleo, pinatas, or shopping spree great. That's a great investment. Otherwise stocks seem much more safer to me.

They could be doing a good job in publishing payout percentages but they told me to DIY when I asked for my paigow poker stats summary. I was asking for the number of games won, pushed and lost. They told me it couldnt be done and I had to do it manually myself.

 

[skiny]

They could be doing a good job in publishing payout percentages but they told me to DIY when I asked for my paigow poker stats summary. I was asking for the number of games won, pushed and lost. They told me it couldnt be done and I had to do it manually myself.

So if there was a discrepancy in your game they can't go back and look at your hands either?