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What to do when PAB could be seen as violating there T&C's

Discussion in 'Other Complaints' started by Godn, Aug 29, 2014.

    Aug 29, 2014
  1. Godn

    Godn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electrical engineer
    Location:
    North west UK
    **SPOILER ALERT**
    "Very long winded thread"



    Hi

    I'm looking for some advice on a issue I'm having with a UK licensed operator,
    So basically this operator offers a pay by mobile deposit method stupidly I deposited using this service,
    I lost the £30 and that's fine we can't win them all so I left the site and returned a few weeks and deposited via my usually debit card method, I made several over a week to the total of £260

    I turned my last deposit of £70 in to £700 and continued to withdraw I've proven my identity and bank account in the past and Evan took part in there promotions with a previous win of £1000 (pic of me with a rubber cheque) so I waited 5days and nothing. This is nothing new as they drag the withdrawal
    Process out and leave the reverse withdrawal option available for as long possible.
    After contacting them I was asked for proof of payment of my mobile bill to O2 I went to explain that my bill has not been paid as it has gone to the back room at O2 due to misleading information given by a online O2 guru this was at the decision of O2 not me. I did how ever send a screen shot of a few correspondents to show I was still in good standing with said provider and payment of the £30 was made to them,

    They still refused to pay out so after lengthy emails and chats over 6weeks I was finally able to produce a scanned copy of my itemised bill and this was still refused and to my belief was told I had to send a unopened downloadable PDF of my itemised bill,

    I point blank refused this for obvious reason in respect to other people's private numbers

    At this point I have zero trust in this operator as they do spam frequently and informed them I would not be sending any more documentation as they clearly stated during a call that do not doubt the payment wasn't made to O2 and they have received payments.

    So I can't understand why they will not pay me my legitimate winnings?
    The way they pick there 3rd party ombudsman is very suspect, the correct 3rd party title
    Escapes me ATM,
     
  2. Aug 29, 2014
  3. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Hi, could you clarify how exactly a PAB would violate their Terms?

    If you could cut-and-paste the actual text of the Term in question that would be ideal.

    Thanks.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Aug 29, 2014
  5. Godn

    Godn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electrical engineer
    Location:
    North west UK
    I actually discovered it on here via a reply fro the weatherman and think its in section 7 of there T&C.

    This is the quote from a unrelated thread about this operator


    Since they are UK based and regulated, the terms can be challenged under the Unfair Business Practices regulations, in particular the one that forbids a user from seeking assistance with a dispute outside of the operator's control. Also open to challenge is their assertion that referral earnings are included under the max withdrawal policy as a free chip bonus. The grounds would be that like an affiliate program, these are earnings for work done, not a free chip.
     
  6. Aug 29, 2014
  7. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    I might know the casino and term you're talking about. I can understand that a casino might have a term like that to protect themselves, but that "our way or the highway" type of thing seems shady to me. Let's say you win big - they could theoretically dick you around for months, and then the minute you tried to go somewhere else for help, then it's all OOPS too bad you broke a term bye bye.

    IF it's the same casino, then possibly you've already broken their term by posting in the forum. :rolleyes:

    I sent MaxD a PM, BTW - that casino might end up in the NO-Can-Do pile.
     
  8. Aug 29, 2014
  9. Godn

    Godn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electrical engineer
    Location:
    North west UK
    Yeah I know exactly what your saying, there T&C is just one vicious circle I've sent max a PM as well of the exact phrasing not heard back yet but I'm sure he will when he gets the time :) i would really like to get my winnings but if I don't because of this post it'll be worth it if the thread helps others .

    They actually forced me to take part in there promotions as well. I called and asked politely if I could not have my picture and full name posted on there Facebook page as I don't like Facebook or my picture being taken. The refused to pay me out till I sent in the picture of me holding a rubber cheque.
    Evan though I'd proven my identity and bank account but I took and sent the picture and they took 3 weeks to pay me out.

    I can't prove this and it's my personal opinion here but I feel they selectively steal from players like me. I'm over £2000 in profit from this operator.

    They are extremely clever in the way they do it .


    But I am a reasonable man so if any of you guys think I'm in the wrong please tell me.
     
  10. Aug 29, 2014
  11. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    Unfortunately the terms are there in black and white and you agreed to them when you signed up. Basically no matter how stupid or unreasonable a term is, if you've agreed by signing up, you're going to be SOL if you try to challenge them after.

    As for this 'not talking about your issue' you're going to have to just work with them and wait for them to sort it. If you go to an arbitrator then you're breaking the term and chances are you won't get anything.

    But I think it's important that a warning be made for other players that if you play at this casino and find yourself with a problem, you're on your own.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Aug 29, 2014
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    If they are UK licenced, the UKGC may be able to help, or even Trading Standards.

    The problem seems to be related to O2, and in this case, it's OFCOM. Something that O2 has done has made the casino fear that they won't get their £30, and it's common practice for casinos to void winnings derived from a deposit that isn't honoured. They may not be satisfied until the issue you have with O2 is sorted out.

    Ranting about the other aspects like Facebook and the Rubber cheque only complicates the issue. These are easily dealt with too, through privacy laws. Depending on how the photo was loaded to their Facebook page, you may be able to delete it from your end after the fact. You should at least be able to un tag it through Facebook. Most casinos have this term, but where a player insists on anonymity, the casino usually honours the request.

    You cannot sign away your legal rights no matter what terms are in a contract, so no company can prevent a customer from complaining about an issue that they have failed to resolve internally. However, following the proscribed complaints process, even if you know it will fail (or is unfair), strengthens your case should you have to take things further (you can show you tried everything possible to resolve the issue with them before "going public" or to a third party). Most regulators DO expect customers to exhaust the proscribed complaints process before coming to them. You will need a state of "deadlock" to exist before many arbitration services and regulators will take your case on.

    If you send a PM to Max he should be able to say whether or not he can take a PAB for this casino.
     
  14. Aug 30, 2014
  15. Godn

    Godn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electrical engineer
    Location:
    North west UK
    That is why i didn't mention the whole privacy photo issue in my original post I just wanted to reinforce how awkward and unreasonable they are

    They have been paid by O2 the payment was not refused. O2 actually gave me the contact details of the third party company that handles this type of transaction,
    I fully understand and agree why checks are made.


    Apart from getting a third party of there choice to intervene I've been nothing but helpful and gave them everything they requested but they've been running me around in circles since the 7/9 this is the first time I've spoken out about this so I apologies if it looks like a rant, I just have a lot to get off my chest :)
     
  16. Aug 30, 2014
  17. Godn

    Godn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electrical engineer
    Location:
    North west UK
    I didn't win anything from the £30 pay by mobile deposit I'd made several other deposits after losing the £30 via my Halifax account using my wages from work



    O2 has been paid by me and the operator has been paid by O2
    They openly admit they have been paid


    They requested a scanned copy of my itemised bill and I sent this but it is still not good enough
    They told me they need to show this bill to the gambling commission
    I laughed when they told me that! I've never complained to any operator but this one thinks I've just fell off the Christmas tree!
     
  18. Aug 30, 2014
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Contact the Gambling Commission and ask if this claim is true.

    Even if the win was not from this £30, they would still use it's non payment as reason for voiding the later win.

    You could also complain to the ICO that they are asking for far more personal data than is "necessary" for them to have in order to proceed, and are holding to ransom your money unless you agree to their demands. This could be a breach of Data protection laws, a separate issue to that of gambling regulations.

    The odd thing is, if they have been paid by O2, and you have an account in good standing with O2, how the hell can they have found out that there was ever an issue between yourself and O2 in the first place?

    If they asked for a scanned bill, and this is what you sent, how come it's not good enough?
     
  20. Aug 30, 2014
  21. Godn

    Godn Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Electrical engineer
    Location:
    North west UK
    I think requesting to see the bill is standard for them,
    i told them I hadn't paid the bill yet, because I couldn't it was sent to the back room by O2
    I'm using the same iPhone5 to type this that I used to deposit the £30
    If I hadn't payed my bill the phone would be locked as it's contract
    I'm going to give thread a break as max is on it


    Thanks for all your advice!! Just pm if you want any more info pal :)
     

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