What MG slot's hot - and what's not!

[johnsteed]

Phoenician should be called the... Snow-Owl Casino

***


My experiences over the course of the past 3 days are these...

1) Tombraider has been a major letdown this past week. My BIG mistake was entrusting to much of my capital into the game in hopes that it would eventually become getting hot. It never happened. Live and learn.

- Phoenician Casino: Ice cold
- 32Red: Fair/Warm
- Capital Casino: Hot


2) Mermaids Millions can be a better game to play (over Tomb Raider) because the sounds are far more tranquil (recommendations from Simmo! and Pinababy69). Well, I didn't do so well here, aside from one screen with 4 scatters. Few highs, although I think that this game should be better than it played out for me thus far.

- Phoenician Casino: Ice cold
- 32Red: Warm
- Capital Casino: Warm

In the end, and as stated in above thread, will be staying FAR away from Phoenician for a while now.

Sidenote: For as awful as the slots were to me (horrendous) this past week (with the exception of Capital Casino that is), BJ has been supernova-horrendous to me at 32Red and Phoenician.


***

 

[vinylweatherman]

Seems to be a feature of MG

I find that MG somtimes seems to "lock down" into a certain state over an entire session or group of sessions. The normal feel that a run of bad luck will even out to close to house edge simply does not happen (lock down). This must have something to do with the algorithms used to convert the RNG output into gameplay. Lockdowns can go the other way though, and a magnificent run is the result and you feel you can do no wrong. This is dangerous as it can make you feel above the laws of gambling and eventually, and often imperceptively, the tables will turn and the casino will take it all back if you don't sit back, have a cuppa, and hit that "withdraw" button for at least some of it Yes, I have made this mistake myself, and the temptation to think the run is still on and another big hit is just around the corner is difficult to resist. Simply because on rare occasions another big hit really does turn up!
I have also found that there is a noticeable advantage in wagering small, not in absolute terms of course, but in relative terms of return against stake.
I played that Muchos Grande on the min 1c coin and was hitting map bonus frequently. When I play on a 5c coin it is different, the maps seem to hit with the usual 1 in 100 or more frequency, although the higher stake is producing better line wins. I have also found that doubling or quadrupling stake on the free spin slots seems not to lead to the average bonus round paying double or quadruple, it seems to increase less than double for a doubled stake. I have had my best free spin round on Thunderstruck on the 1c coin, $220+ for a 45c bet. I have played BJ and won $800 by level staking $1 at vegas strip for 80,000 deals. On table max this run would probably have bankrupted the casino, although if "random" it should be just as likely to happen at $500 per game as $1 per game, yet the casinos are not worried about this sort of run! $800 would have been $400,000 - only the biggest could take this hit from the tables as opposed to a pre-funded progressive.

Clearly 3 and 1/2 hours of play with only 1 or 2 free spins is well outside statistical expectation. These games will do 800 to 1000 spins per hour or more on autoplay, 4 hours would be 4000 spins with one or two bonus rounds of free spins. Does indeed make Thunderstruck 1000 for 3 rams look good!

There is another type of "hidden" cycle I have found present in MG casinos, and the way to tell that you have gone into a fresh cycle is easy.
After you play, say, BJ you will find that whenever you return to the game you will have the state of the last play still displayed, along with your coin/wager set to the same value as your last bet. This is NOT cleared by removing and reinstalling the casino, and is not in the registry keys left behind. Eventually though, you will go back and find the table clear and your coin reset to the table default, often the minimum. This is due to a server clearout cycle, this will NOT clear any unresolved bets that might be remaining, but will clear the memory of resolved last plays. This may have something to do with the Playcheck purge cycle of 21 days. I have found that after this process a clean slate is granted and a game that seems to have been locked down into a permanent bad mood will perk up to more normal play (not necessarily winning, but you at least feel you have a fair chance with out dealer 21's and BJ every time on your 20's)

When I first played Phoenician it was frigid for 3 weeks, but then warmed up to be the only Casino Action casino I have ever had a net positive result with.

 

[johnsteed]

They're purging, we're running...

***


Great post vinylweatherman.

All of what you said, I feel, has some validity to it.

While it's easy to recognize your last hand of BJ (as you said, it's still on the screen for an extended period of time), how do you approach slots (to know that the "PlayTech purge cycle has indeed taken place)? Or do you simply assume that when you look to see if the last BJ hand you played has been refreshed (clean slate), it would apply to all the games?

I have also found that there is a noticeable advantage in wagering small, not in absolute terms of course, but in relative terms of return against stake.

Agreed. I would look no further than to the wonderful runs I've had at Thunderstruck off of the .09 cent minimum bets placed per spin. Wonderful luck. Increasing from cents and into the dollars, I've generally found the game to run cold (especially in the Free Spins sessions). True or not true, I'm not sure, because someone like Simmo! has done quite well off of large bets (at least, I assume so).

But I think that I've done MUCH better at BJ, alternating between $2-4 bets (sometimes increasing to $6). If the game isn't in "lock down" mode (no greater indicator than by dropping down 30-40 units within 10-15 minutes of beginning to know that you're in for a REAL doozy), I do feel that I can gradually build-up a decent amount of credit in a 2-3 hour sit. I'm not sure why, but recently, ONLY Capital Casino doesn't seem to destroy me instantly on increased bets exceeding $10. I've been running into too many of those lose 10 in-a-row (w/3 pushes) streaks as soon as I increase my bets.

...not necessarily winning, but you at least feel you have a fair chance with out dealer 21's and BJ every time on your 20's...

Yes, I recognize that things AREN'T going to be good when THAT happens all too frequently. When the dealers 6's aren't busting, my alarms are going off.

Sidenote: I can't tell you the amount of times where there's a push on BJ's (single-hand BJ), and the very next hand either you or the dealer will get a BJ.

Clearly 3 and 1/2 hours of play with only 1 or 2 free spins is well outside statistical expectation. These games will do 800 to 1000 spins per hour or more on autoplay, 4 hours would be 4000 spins with one or two bonus rounds of free spins. Does indeed make Thunderstruck 1000 for 3 rams look good!

WAY OUT of statistical expectation. I wasn't even going to mention that at first, because it sounds WAY TOO out-of-the-box out of what to expect from these games. I don't want to come off as some kind of liar, believe you me.

I was alternating between Mermaids Millions & Tomb Raider, and whenever I dropped down $25 on one game, I'd leave and go the next game. I did run into quite a few treasure chests/aztec treasures to keep me going, but I've never gone more than say + 850 spins... and that was at Thunderstruck (which I'd "historically" view as streakier than Tomb Raider... as I'm still new to Mermaids Millions). My guess is that I went about 1,200 spins (give or take a hundred) on each game without hitting the Free Spin feature. I assumed that "generally", the most you can go without getting a free spin on those two games, was about +550-600 (as a WORST case scenario). Hahaha (trying not to cry), well, WORST case is much higher I see.

vinylweatherman, have you considered that once you make a substantial (above $500) withdraw, that most casinos will throw you in "lock down" mode on your next deposit (or next few deposits)?

When I first played Phoenician it was frigid for 3 weeks, but then warmed up to be the only Casino Action casino I have ever had a net positive result with.

Well, it has scared-me-off from making any deposits there for the next while. I'm sounding tautologous (in accordance to my views...) about casinos with instant withdrawals, but they just seem to play EXTREMELY tighter (and not-so-random) after a decent withdrawal was made. Truth or not, I'll never know.

This is due to a server clearout cycle, this will NOT clear any unresolved bets that might be remaining, but will clear the memory of resolved last plays. This may have something to do with the Playcheck purge cycle of 21 days. I have found that after this process a clean slate is granted and a game that seems to have been locked down into a permanent bad mood will perk up to more normal play.

If you recognize that you're thrust into the F**K-ME-Mode, do you withdraw, and wait for the "purge cycle" to end? If so, has this worked to your benefit?

Well, lots of great points (theories) made there vinylweatherman.


***

 

[silcnlayc]

Video Poker Runs

Hi Everyone...

Just figured I'd toss in a thing or two on the video poker games I just started to play recently. My husband and I, were sitting here enjoying the "newness" of VP, and kept getting an interesting thing happening which we both noticed almost instantly together after about 3 days of playing.

I would be playing midlevel bets (for the full amout) and I would ALWAYS try to double up, if the winnings were half my wagers. Anyway, after almost 3 days of this, we noticed when I went to doubled up, I would lose about 75% of them, but, when the next hand was drawn, on the next bet/draw, I usually got a pat winning hand. (about 95%) of the time.

I continued playing this, and sure enough, almost 3 weeks into this new pastime for me..it still does it. Strange, but now I ALWAYS double when I have less than 1/2 my bet won back on a play, so I can win on my next hand! (I increase my bet too right after and back down after the win)

I have hit a few royals with and w/out jokers (on different VP games w/ and w/o wilds)

Thought this might be of interest to see if anyone else is having this oddity happening to them...

 

[Ivy29]

Doubling Up

silcnlayc--I can't say I've never done the double up feature, but mostly I have it turned off or just don't do it when that isn't an option. Doubling up is risking sure money without the benefit of earning wagering credit in either comp points or WR on a bonus. This is true in live casino gaming, as well. You can have the double up turned off on most live VP machines by a slot attendant, and I will never play one with that feature because it slows me down and is annoying.

The person that first introduced me to VP told me "never bet the double, it's a sucker bet". I'm not calling you a sucker, by any means, but I know I never forgot that.

Also, one of the bartenders at Treasure Island in LV told me that he had seen two people double a $1 ($4000) royal--one won, the other lost. I don't think you can even double a royal anymore on casino machines, not that I'd ever do that.

 

[vinylweatherman]

In Reply

In MG, the purge cycle can be seen on slots too. It's just less likely that you will remember the result of your last spin. Normally you will notice this on slots if you tend to play at a certain coin size and find it reset to the default again. You could always screenshot the last spin for reference.

I believe the purge cycle is run on a game by game basis, and is related to how long it has been since you last played. I note that Playcheck has 2 levels, last few days, or an advanced option for last 21 days. These are stored on the MG server. Since to retain the last play uses server memory, it is clear that a clearout cycle is needed to prevent the thing from clogging up. I suspect that a regular maintenance job is run off peak to clear out memory. This may be triggered by need, or run to a schedule. After it has run, you will no longer be able to view plays with Playcheck. If the software IS using last play data to influence the algorithms it can't do this if it has been purged, hence the clean slate.
I have seen tales of helpdesk staff vaguely admitting to this cycle by telling unlucky players to leave the game for a couple of weeks and their luck should improve.

Johnsteed, your session was not quite as bad as I thought, only a mere 1200 spins with no free spin bonus. Although awful, I have noticed a sub-cycle in these games too. Sometimes it will hit ONLY Idols/Treasures but not the free spins. If frequent bonuses of this type are coming along 1200 without the free spins is not so bad. Often I have noticed that when free spins rather than bonuses are going to be hitting you will repeatedly be getting 2 scatters on 2 different reels. Although this is not a sure indicator, one of 2 things will soon follow:- the scatters will dry up in the end or 3 scatters will hit . This can then be the start of a free spin cycle where these will hit a couple times more, although they may not produce much.
These slot dry spells seem a feature with all the slots, almost as if a switch is thrown where a run of nothing balances out the longer spell where small hits and big wins pushes the payout higher than normal house edge. This is a bit like the way UK controlled slots balance out the percentage. They will go dry if they pay too far above, and will trigger a run if they fall too far below.
It is my experience with UK "Rigged" slots that make it almost impossible to believe that any software game can be random in the real life sense. Even BJ and VP does not look naturally dealt for a lot of the time.

silcnlayc - I am interested in this VP experience on doubling. This sounds like what would happen with a UK VP machine using "AWP" software (AWP or Amusement With Prizes is the polite term for "Rigged % control software"). This should not happen CONSISTENTLY with random games. Can you confirm this is MG VP. I feel doubling does not give an advantage and I rarely do it except for a bit of fun on small wins. Double a Royal - no chance, remember the saying about Birds, Hands and Bushes, "A Royal Thrush in the hand is worth two in the bush "
(For those of you who have just gone "groaan" I apologise - perhaps a Casinomeister "corny joke" competition could be run).

I most often play the 4 hand versions on the 1 coin, which is 5 per hand and 20 per game. The max is 5 coin with some sites at 2. The autoplay allows a doubling strategy to be programmed in, so if there is any advantage in doubling if you win less than stake and getting a pat winner of at least your stake if you lose it can be run in autoplay. I will try this as an experiment in a practice account - I have 2 now. Practice accounts are worth having as they allow players to try out ideas without risking money if they get it wrong. Helpful for learning new games, but also for running experiments to see if games appear to play fair, or fair but not as expected. I have run an experiment on 50 hand Jacks or Better where I can see that up to 0.5% of the theoretical payout seems to come from the very rare pat Straight and Royal flushes, which requires an extreme amount of play on a 50 hand game as it is the number of starting hands that are important. It is 750,000 on average per Pat Royal.

In the UK, this practice of rigging the games has come back to bite the operators. Many of us players have done well by manipulating the way we play to take this software cheating into account. Often this has resulted in the discovery of bugs, most notably ways to force the machine to overcompensate with a big streak by DELIBERATELY losing wins by making bad gambles. This causes the streak switch to be triggered. By far the best bug is the free win/emptier - a narrow coding error that requires repeated play of a very specific sequence. Free wins are such because they are not registered in the calculation of percentage payout over stake, so the machine will happily keep on giving the win till it is empty. A couple of manipulators have worked by freezing the game in payout mode even though this rives it way above percentage payout, and when unstuck the game will suck fututure players dry for hundreds of pounds to recover the percentage before ever paying mare than 7/8 times stake as a prize.

 

[KasinoKing]

I would be playing midlevel bets (for the full amout) and I would ALWAYS try to double up, if the winnings were half my wagers. Anyway, after almost 3 days of this, we noticed when I went to doubled up, I would lose about 75% of them, but, when the next hand was drawn, on the next bet/draw, I usually got a pat winning hand. (about 95%) of the time.

I continued playing this, and sure enough, almost 3 weeks into this new pastime for me..it still does it. Strange, but now I ALWAYS double when I have less than 1/2 my bet won back on a play, so I can win on my next hand! (I increase my bet too right after and back down after the win)

I have hit a few royals with and w/out jokers (on different VP games w/ and w/o wilds)

Sorry to sound skeptical - but surely if what you're saying is true you would never lose & could bankrupt the casino within a few days!

You basically saying the software is not random - I find that very hard to believe.

Still, if it makes you happy... good luck!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Fact or feeling

It's a question of whether this 95% pat deal on losing is fact or just feeling. If fact it would be an issue as randomly it should not happen that frequently, and the casino should take notice.

I have discovered an error in the VP though. If you select double, but then lose your connection, the unresolved bet is NOT saved, it simply disappears! I have run this a few times in free play mode and this seems to happen all the time. MG servers are supposed to hold an unresolved bet till next time, and I would have been expecting to find the double screen displayed on next login. Further investigation will only take place in free play mode for me, as I expect any error will turn out to favour the casino rather than the player in the long run. Any error in the players favour would be highly critical, and would have very serious repercussions on Microgaming.
Casino software errors are not unknown, we had the recent issue with Playtech errors in Pontoon causing losses to players for winning hands.

 

[silcnlayc]

KK, I know just how you feel and think about what I said, for I too didn't see the relationship between the doubling and next hand being pat until my husband and I saw it at the same time (the light bulb over the head kinda thing).

When I say a "pat" hand, I am talking as in pairs to trips most of the time, which on a mid level bet returns anywhere from $15-$30 for a $5.00 (50 play)to $12.50 (100 play) bet. I am not a large gambler, for I do it in the spirit of fun and entertainment. This is in the VP 50 and 100 play games. The royals return about $60.00, which of course I never double since I won more than my initial bet.

Casinos don't have to fear going bankrupt on these games for you only get 1 royal out of the 50-100 hands every once in a while for a small win. I can live with that. But what fun it is to see those "pat" hands! Now to get a "pat royal" would be the ultimate and a casino breaker for sure as you say!!

 

[loganberry]

100% in the Shade!

Have been away from Online gambling for about 6 months, due to ill-health, but yesterday thought it was time I came back.

Found this thread, and think it is absolutely brilliant, so I hope it doesn't die.

Anyway, went onto Cinema Casino, and found loads of new games (for me, that is) - Witches Wealth, Loaded, Bush Telegraph, Chain Mail, etc etc etc. And I struck hot hot hot on Bush Telegraph and Loaded.

Loaded nicely raised my $200 to $2300, by constantly giving me the 3 fingers bonus (although I got the 2 fingers a lot too. ). The best was over $900 in one bonus spin, due to the blonde one coming up with all 5. I was playing for $5 per spin. (Still can't get used to this coin lark, though).
Did try a higher stake but got absolutely nowhere fast.

I then went onto Bush Telegraph later in the day, and again it raised my $200 to over $2000 by giving me loads and loads of bongo bonuses and free spins (got 4 on 1 occasions, at $18.75 that was awesome - over $1000 that time).

However, my stake was higher than for Loaded. I found that $7.50 followed occasionally by $18.75 really did the biz.

So...hot hot hot for Loaded and Bush Telegraph at Cinema Casino.

And boy, am I one very happy little vegemite!

 

[Addisyn]

Great thread KasinoKing. I get what you are saying. This is simply one barometer, no major science involved. One persons experience during a session. Collectively you come up with a somewhat decent idea of which slots are hot and those that aren't.

I played at King Neptune's two nights ago and couldn't hit a thing on Thunderstruck, Jelly Jaunt or Hitman. It was an overall bust.

 

[Slotster!]

Ha! I must've subliminally remembered this thread or something KK! Nice one!

Ok, STONE COLD - Any of the MG Big four free spin slots! Ladies Nite, Thunderstruck, Tally Ho, Spring Break.

 

[AudiManinBoro]

Im fairly sure that whatever is hitting `hot` in one casino isnt in most of the others. Being a member of several mg casinos this i can readily attest too lol
in deference to this thread title though the current games playing hot for me are

Santa Paws
Ladies night
Mega Moolah

It would be quite helpful to know the casino names of where people are playing at in their posts otherwise how can any comparison be made?
Since jackpot city is treating me like im their most valued customer at the moment this is where im playing at

 

[lojo]

Who said it in a post the other day.... if it ain't hitting for you, that's where I wanna play, cause there's nothing but good luck left (makes as much sense as anything else)

Anyways... Casino Grand Bay is bursting at the seams to pay out on Glory of Rome right now and I don't have enough left to chase it. Agent Jane Blond drained me too (and not in a good way)

Hope that helps... now where's my talisman...

 

[Kaynos72]

2 years old thread bumping ??

 

[lojo]

2 years old thread bumping ??

That's why they aren't closed. Pretty cool, huh?

 

[steinhaug]

You basically saying the software is not random - I find that very hard to believe.

From what I read you are implying the same KK, so it seems vinylweatherman. It seems to be a growing feeling in here, cycles - session drying out - purging data - previous playdata influencing current play - doubling wager doesnt double payout and so on...

I am happy you are exploring this, since I personally are far from convinced we are talking "true random" which all of you are sticking to your hearts. And please save your playcheck data all the time!

 

[lojo]

From what I read you are implying the same KK, so it seems vinylweatherman. It seems to be a growing feeling in here, cycles - session drying out - purging data - previous playdata influencing current play - doubling wager doesnt double payout and so on...

I am happy you are exploring this, since I personally are far from convinced we are talking "true random" which all of you are sticking to your hearts. And please save your playcheck data all the time!

Sorry i didn't do my homework, but dude, been busy. Welcome back!
btw They are not saying that, or are they? Can you paraphrase it? Why not just quit gambling if you think it is that fexed up. The statistitions can't give you a winning 'cycle' and you haven't trusted volitility, variance, and chaos and quit while ahead (or did you?) so really, you might want another hobby bra

 

[steinhaug]

Sorry i didn't do my homework, but dude, been busy. Welcome back!
btw They are not saying that, or are they? Can you paraphrase it? Why not just quit gambling if you think it is that fexed up. The statistitions can't give you a winning 'cycle' and you haven't trusted volitility, variance, and chaos and quit while ahead (or did you?) so really, you might want another hobby bra

No worries bro, I have sure quit online gambling for theese reasons. Given a true RNG most of the "findings" you keep doing should not occure, therefore I think it's nice to see you - maby subcontiousnessly - agree something fishy is going on. Why are you angry at me? That I do not understand! I pointed out all valid arguments in previous post, all from this thread not made by me - mr conspiracy, (atleast so it seems judging the friendly replies i get when stating what you are implying so carefully)

And I was not trying to hijack the thread either!

 

[lojo]

No worries bro, I have sure quit online gambling for theese reasons. Given a true RNG most of the "findings" you keep doing should not occure, therefore I think it's nice to see you - maby subcontiousnessly - agree something fishy is going on. Why are you angry at me? That I do not understand! I pointed out all valid arguments in previous post, all from this thread not made by me - mr conspiracy, (atleast so it seems judging the friendly replies i get when stating what you are implying so carefully)

And I was not trying to hijack the thread either!

I am not angry with you. You are one of the inspiring minds here, so sorry if it seemed that way. I believe that anything is possible with 'numbers

good care 'wegian bro