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What is Chartwell software like?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by KasinoKing, Apr 12, 2005.

    Apr 12, 2005
  1. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I was searching for 'Chartwell' as I'm thinking about signing up to one of their casinos, and I found the above post in the promo section.

    Deposit just 10 and playthrough 1000 to get the bonus??? :confused:

    I would love to hear from anybody who's actually achieved that! :eek:

    That is obviously some sort of joke. (The un-funny sort).
    But if anyone can give me their thoughts on the fairness of Chartwell, it would be much appreciated!
    Thanks.
     
  2. Apr 12, 2005
  3. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    the software seems fair enough. It's used by Coral/Eurobet (both run by Eurobet), and five casinos run by Victor Chandler. The Victor Chandler casino I believe uses Boss Media. The software is flash, and not as good as wagerworks - it's very slow and has stupid irritating traffic lights to check for dealer blackjack.

    I had a very bad run at Coral playing their single deck blackjack, losing 100 at 5 bets in 210 of wagering. However I went on to win some of it back. I did one of the VC sites (racing post), and made a profit here.

    The main thing is that at least for me on 56k (I have no problems with wagerworks, or any download casinos), and for a lot of others, it's a horrible slow site. So you end up increasing your bet size. It's difficult to see how people would want to play without bonuses, because the software is not much fun.

    The 10 deposit for 50 is pretty silly - the chance of hitting a 1000 target with 10, even with 1 bets (which would take me at least four hours with their software), without busting is tiny. I deposited 200 at racing post, cleared the bonus with 5 bets, and cashed out about 300.

    The regular blackjack does not have particularly favourable rules - the single deck game is better. I know the single deck, and I believe the regular blackjack, have no hole card, making it difficult to find the correct strategy (never double or split against A or 10, as dealer could have blackjack), and offsetting some of the advantage of a single-deck game, since you have less information about the remaining cards. Single deck blackjack rules are:

    dealer stands on soft 17
    doubles only on 9-11
    no resplits
    no hole card
     
  4. Apr 13, 2005
  5. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    well, as above, plus

    They have Jacks or Better with 9/6 paytable but only 20 coins for 4OaK, so payout is only 98.36% (assuming full pay strategy is optimal).

    regular blackjack has double any two cards, no resplitting, dealer sticks on all 17, doubling split hands is allowed. I can only assume that it is an 8-deck game, giving an edge of 0.4877%

    also
    european (no hole card - inferior to regular blackjack) & lucky 7 blackjack (side bet)
    baccarat
    casino stud poker
    pai gow poker
    3 card poker
    red dog

    various slots
    craps
    0 or 00 roulette (why would anyone play double 0?)

    Apart from Jacks or Better also

    Deuces Wild (ugly ducks paytable, but only 20 coins for wild royal flush, not 25), 98.0% payout.

    All American - interesting JoB variant with
    800 coin RF, 90 coin SF, 35 coin 4OaK, 8 for flush, straight or full house, 3 for 3 OaK, 1 for 2 pairs or for JoB.

    Payout is definitely very low - You must register/login in order to see the link. shows 100.72% for a 200 coin SF and 40 coin 4OaK, the 5 coins on the 4OaK is costing 1.13%, and the SF 1.56%. So overall payout around 98.1-98.2%

    Joker Poker (return about 97.7%)
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2005
  6. Apr 13, 2005
  7. Dirk Diggler

    Dirk Diggler Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Company Secretary
    Location:
    UK
    One thing to bear in mind with Chartwell is they offer completely no backup if one of their licensees screws you.

    I personally had my 500 deposit, plus 475 winnings AND a 500 bonus stolen from me by the now defunct tropicalgardencasino.com.

    My opinion is you are much better off on any RTG - at least you've got Montana if things go wrong.
     
  8. Apr 13, 2005
  9. DealerBusts

    DealerBusts Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    I've played their BJ at eurobet and coral cos they give monthly bonuses. Had a terrible time for the last 3-4 months with the single-deck game so much so that i'm relieved now that i've stopped playing with them. I was flatbetting low amounts. The game just didn't feel random or i'm just having a lot of bad luck.
     
  10. Apr 13, 2005
  11. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Thanks for all the feedback guys! :thumbsup:
    I'm not too worried about Blackjack (I hardly play it because every site is rigged, or I am incredibly unlucky...), and I haven't 'got into' Video Poker... yet!

    But their bonuses are VERY tempting to me, so I probably will give it a go.
    I'll let you know how I get on...
     
  12. Apr 15, 2005
  13. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    This may be the worst software I've ever played apart from Gambling Federation.

    My overall results, to date over 3000 hands of 0.2% single deck blackjack, show a house edge of a little under 6%.

    My advice to KK is: if you want to have a crack at those "tempting" bonuses, go ahead, but this software is almost certainly rigged.

    News to me - I wish I'd heard something about that a few months ago, I'd have loved to have taken Chartwell on at the ICE on your behalf. They had a stall.

    Come to think of it, for 900 I'm surprised you didn't pay them a visit yourself.
     
  14. Apr 15, 2005
  15. sirius

    sirius Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Caruso, your results in the single deck game aren't overly bad and you can't really say they are rigged. I think it is about 3SD's below average.
     
  16. Apr 15, 2005
  17. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    I play at Spin and Coral and have no problems with the fairness of the games. They pay quickly and with no hassle. The bonuses are good, very good in the case of Coral.

    However the software is painfully slow and crashes frequently, very frequently in the case of Coral. This makes playing there very frustrating as far as I am concerned and not a very enjoyable experience (apart from the money!)

    Mitch
     
  18. Apr 15, 2005
  19. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    Well that's wrong to start with. The blackjack does not have 0.2% edge, considering that you can only double 9-11, and they have no hole card. It's more like 0.35-0.4%.

    Anyway, 6% of 3000 is 180 is 1410 units won to 1590 lost. Given that you misstate the house advantage, I am not sure whether you are playing correct strategy for no hole card single deck blackjack (e.g., you should never (except for A,A against 10) split/double against ace or 10); if you are not then you are likely playing a 0.8% game anyway.

    Assuming correct strategy, the expected result from 3000 units is about -12 units. You have -180 units, which given a standard deviation of 64 units, will happen to one in every 250 players. Not nice, but not totally convincing.

    My own personal experiences with this software shows me winning very nicely, and my results (except for one) are all well on the positive side of the curve.

    I play single deck blackjack with a 5 stake and perfect strategy, and have no complaints about the software's fairness.
     
  20. Apr 15, 2005
  21. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Well, I went ahead & tried it anyway and I have to admit it was a bit dodgy to say the least.
    As per usual, I played a variety of their games, but I lost on every single one of them :(
    I deposited 50 and had to wager 1000 to get the bonus. But I was broke by the time I had only wagered 817, although the games didn't seem that bad. So I deposited another 50, finished the WR while only losing 2, and got the 50 bonus.
    So at this point my bank was 98 - all withdrawable - and that's exactly what I should have done.
    However, when I made my second deposit a message said I had also qualified to claim their 25 monthly bonus - I had to wager another 500.
    But when doing this, my luck was much worse than the first session, and my balance plummeted to 35 by the time I qualified. Got the 25 bonus, tried to win some of my losses back, but failed, lost another 10 and ended up cashing out 50.
    So my 50 lesson was over.

    What I liked:
    The speed & ease of the game play.
    The bonus gets instantly added to your bank the moment you meet WR - no need to count your bets as you go. And when you get it, you know you can withdraw everything!

    What I didn't like:
    The playing cards all have one large 'spot' in the middle, so I kept thinking 2-10's were aces! :oops:
    The fact that I lost on every game. :(

    Is it rigged? Dunno - the jury is still out on that one! Maybe I was just unlucky...
    Will try the monthly bonus next time & see how it goes...
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2005
  22. Apr 15, 2005
  23. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    I certainly don't need any lessons in blackjack play or house edge from you, newbie.

    The house edge for single Deck, S17, D9, No DAS and ENHC is a little over 0.2%. Factoring in single deck exceptions brings it under 0.2%. I don't play them all, so the theorectical house edge on my game is somewhere between 0.2 and 0.21%.

    Get your facts straight next time and think twice before posting.
     
  24. Apr 15, 2005
  25. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Correct, Sirius. But it raises a very big warning flag.
     
  26. Apr 15, 2005
  27. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Please be mellow. Thanks.
     
  28. Apr 15, 2005
  29. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    Ok. I did check. It's around 0.25%. So not as bad as I said, but I still think you are wrong and 0.21% is too low. But feel free to show me if I am wrong (i.e. some analysis or reputable sources). As a starting point, wizardofodds gives 0.1502% for a game without the no hole card rule, and also gives European no hole card -.11%. So we are looking at 0.26%. Granted that the no hole card exception is likely based on a six deck game, and there will be some variation in this figure, but I do not believe that 0.21% (half the effect that wizardofodds gives) is sustainable.

    Perhaps you don't need any lessons in house advantage, but you could perhaps not respond so sharply to my suggestions. Unless you think you have nothing to learn?

    I don't think it was wrong of me to question you, given that you were accusing (or at least implying) software used by Coral Eurobet and Victor Chandler, two well-established companies with a substantial B&M presence with very good reputations, of fraud.

    From 680 deposited, after removing any bonuses, my return across the different sites is 675, from I guess 6,000 in wagers.

    So given from my own experience, they do not appear to be rigged at all, and so I don't think it was wrong of me to question your play or methodology (given as well that Chartwell has no playlog and the only way to keep track of amounts wagered is manually, or by always withdrawing when you reach any bonus levels). I think it's responsible to critically examine any accusations of fraud very carefully given that many are made and almost none ever proven; the sensible thing to do when reputable companies is defamed and moreover the accusations are not consistent with my own experiences is to look for rational explanations that do not involve fraud. Given a choice between fraud and player error, I will go for player error until I have evidence to the contrary. But that's nothing personal, and I am sorry you took it that way.
     
  30. Apr 16, 2005
  31. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    My apologies, Bryan.

    I take some serious exception to statements like these:

    "Well that's wrong to start with. The blackjack does not have 0.2% edge...I am not sure whether you are playing correct strategy for no hole card single deck blackjack."

    Good grief, I think I've been around long enough for it to be taken on faith that I can play an accurate game of blackjack and that I have an clear idea about the facts of whichever game I'm playing.

    I take even more exception to statements like these when they come from Laddo Twenty Posts who signed up last week.

    In my four years plus I've done my little bit - and occasionally my more than little bit - to assist players, expose sleaze and help keep things clean. I EXPECT a modicum of respect for that, and did not consider a "mellow" response remotely appropriate, in the circumstances.

    I difer to your right to see it differently.
     
  32. Apr 16, 2005
  33. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    "I take even more exception to statements like these when they come from Laddo Twenty Posts who signed up last week."


    The number of posts a person has made is not necessarily an indication of his or her competence or for that matter right to make an observation here i.m.o.

    thelawnet has made some interesting contributions since appearing on Casinomeister and I hope that he/she sticks around despite this rather caustic exchange.
     
  34. Apr 16, 2005
  35. DealerBusts

    DealerBusts Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    At first i winced after reading this but its actually quite hilarious. I have to admit that to a seasoned player like caruso, it must have been like a slap in the face.

    I don't like the single deck game of Blackjack at Chartwell. I remember something that cipher said about the seeding of low value cards by online RNG. I have definitely seen too many prolonged sessions with the dealer consistently making their stiff hands on a variety of casino software.
     
  36. Apr 16, 2005
  37. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK
    well as johnny-20-posts or whatever epithet caruso has for me, all I can tell about caruso is that he has 850 posts (or whatever it is). This doesn't give me any information about his competence at blackjack, as I am sure you are aware you can spend 20 years sticking on 16s against dealer 10s for $500 a hand; there is not necessarily a correlation between experience and playing correct strategy.

    Given that I am new here, as caruso is so keen to point out, I could therefore not know whether he plays perfect strategy or not.

    I am surprised that it is seen as so insulting to firstly point out that Chartwell's game is not 0.2% (which is true - it is at least 0.25% - although I incorrectly stated the actual value from memory (0.2% is the figure given by blackjackinfo.com, but allowing resplits, which chartwell does not )), and secondly to say not that he was playing the WRONG strategy, but simply (as an ignorant newbie) I did not know whether he was playing the right one.
     
  38. Apr 19, 2005
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Chartwell!

    At least you lot can get the games to load!

    I had to install Netscape, with all the pesky ads, for the sole function of playing Chartwell casinos (Coral & VC).

    Chartwell always gives an error when trying to use IE. I have been in contact with Coral, but they could not help, and I use Netscape. This is despite IE being the recommended and supported browser.
    If I only ever play the monthly bonus this is why - it's such a pain! I'll quit when I have lost it all or get a Royal Flush on the VP machine.
     

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