What happened to Slotland?

[Slotmachine]

Didn't it use to be on Casinomeister's approved list? I don't see it anymore. Problems?
SM

 

[jamiester]

yes

read this thread:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/slotland-fraudulent-video-poker-games.5371/

I believe they were removed because of the issues outlined in that thread. There is much belief among players that there is something fishy about their software and their "98% certified" payout claim as well.

 

[guesswest]

read this thread:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/slotland-fraudulent-video-poker-games.5371/

I believe they were removed because of the issues outlined in that thread. There is much belief among players that there is something fishy about their software and their "98% certified" payout claim as well.

I stumbled on that thread you linked just last week while browsing through the archives. I've got to say it's one of the best threads I've seen on here, with Chalupa making a very well articulated argument. A note on their 98% payout, i read somewhere, can't remember if it was here or another forum, that their stated payout includes bonuses. Which I agree is a bit fishy, as 98% to most would mean put in $1, get 98c out (obviously with huge variance).

 

[eek]

I read the thread up to page 6 with some surprise.

Slotlands unique system has been common knowledge for years.

Many moons ago when I used to run a site and considered putting up slotland I was also going to put up a slot-machine-only disclaimer with the link.
I'm surprised Bryan didn't do this, it would have saved any confusion at his end for the place.
Then gamblers could decide if they wanted to play there.
Theres plenty of slots only players around.

Apparently
Slotland has good cs.
They pay when you win.
They are one big slot machine.

What more do you guys want ??

 

[guesswest]

Well, I think it's all been pretty much covered in the original thread so will keep it brief. But in response to that - if you have a machine showing a deck of cards, it's pretty much universal law/etiquette that it works on real odds, the ones associated with a real deck of cards. True, it is in there, buried way deep in an ostensibly trivial part of their website - but most gamblers are going to take adherence to real odds in video poker as a given. With that in mind, if they're going to offer a slot machine that looks and acts like VP, they need to make it crystal clear to anyone playing it, right there on the machine, that it isn't real VP. You say it's been known for years, but I'd bet most people playing their VP still don't know this. I consider myself a fairly savvy gambler, I read T&Cs on all sites before playing, and it would never in a million years have occured to me to check if it was real VP before playing.

 

[eek]

So all Bryan has to do is stick a disclaimer on his afflink.

The place pays out when you win.
The CS is ok.

This is what players want, this is what they're looking for, isn't it ?
A slot player would have no issues playing there.

Some of us think that the entire ecasino industry is just one big slot machine anyway...
A place that actually admits it is a slot machine gets penalised...go figure.

 

[tim5ny]

Slotland has by far the worst software and games I have ever played in my life. You have to keep up with the industry and competition, but they seemed quite happy to just keep putting along with the same ol thing.

 

[eek]

But if you have 2 places you can play at and the one with the gorgeous graphics has bad CS or payout problems, while the one with the crappy graphics has no payout or CS issues....

Where are you going to play if you're a slots player ?

William Hill has a horrendous CS reputation, how many people have avoided the place because of this ?

...nice graphics tho...

 

[guesswest]

The problem that I see with having Slotland in the accredited list, with or without a disclaimer, is that it gives this site's endorsement of that practice. Slotland were well aware of the thread Chalupa started, wrote on it several times, and though they made some very minor changes, essentially refused to post info about their VP odds in a prominent place on their games. You say it's been known for years, but I just don't think that's true. I'd say it was breaking news when that thread was started, and even after the exposure generated from the original thread, it's still going to be a small minority of Slotland customers are aware of this. I'm sure there are people playing VP on SL as we speak, playing incorrect strategy etc, and losing money, because they're oblivious to this. The only reason SL could have for not wanting to post that info is to dupe players IMO - I'm trying to be fair, but I just can't think of any other reason, can anyone?

Anyways, regardless of anyone's position on this - bearing in mind SL's very generous affiliate program, I think it speaks volumes for the Meister's integrity that he took them off the list based on player complaints.

 

[eek]

Finding places that:

1 pay out winnings
2 have decent customer service

Is hard enough for most players.

A slot machine is just another gambling device.
Some people like slot machines, its what they play, its ALL they play.
pluslotto

is another place like slotland, and has a good reputation.

If you want to fix the world and all the bad people in it then fine but for a slots joint with an ok reputation to get kicked from a gambling site seems kinda weird to me...

 

[caruso]

Finding places that:

1 pay out winnings
2 have decent customer service

Is hard enough for most players.

Hardly. I can name you a handful of Cryptos, RTGs and Playtechs, and many Microgamings, that do the above.

Slotlands game presentations and explanations are just too fudgey and sneaky. They should not be on ANY recommended list, and the linked thread explains exactly why.

Of course, paying theirs affies 25% of deposits, they'll always be top of most banner farmers' homepages. Personally, I'm glad to see the back of them here, and give Bryan credit for pulling them. You can betcha he kissed a decent income goodbye in the process, and he didn't parade the fact at all.

 

[tim5ny]

But if you have 2 places you can play at and the one with the gorgeous graphics has bad CS or payout problems, while the one with the crappy graphics has no payout or CS issues....

Where are you going to play if you're a slots player ?

William Hill has a horrendous CS reputation, how many people have avoided the place because of this ?

...nice graphics tho...

If it were impossible to find another casino to trust, then I would go along with your point.... but there are others out there with "modern" software that you can trust. I am a Microgaming person. I like the slots, and they are very professionally designed... and you can't get more trustworthy than 32Red.. so I'm quite content where I am.

 

[guesswest]

The point isn't that they only offer slots, or that there's anything wrong with slots. It's that they offer a game they call video poker, is identical in appearance to video poker - but isn't video poker. Accordingly everyone playing it with correct VP strategy is throwing away money, and has every right to feel cheated. They refuse to make it clear to players that this game is not what it's designed to look exactly like - that's deceptive. If it wasn't true that they wanted people to think this game was VP, they'd have no problem posting the fact that it wasn't on the game itself, which numerous people requested they do. They were not willing to do that. It's an issue of honesty and ethical practice. It is nothing to do with anyone having a problem with slots, I mostly play slots myself.

Additionally, paying 25% of deposits to affiliates while offering a 98% payout doesn't even make maths sense, especially when you factor in their bonuses. And since the software is proprietary, and no external testing done, theres no way to get to the bottom of that. That alone could be seen as enough reason to not have them on the recommended list. It's not like they got rogued.

 

[spearmaster]

if you have a machine showing a deck of cards, it's pretty much universal law/etiquette that it works on real odds, the ones associated with a real deck of cards

I will have to disagree with this. You need look no further than the purported video poker machines available in most arcades in the UK.

The issue is that Slotland actually claimed that this was video poker, and conforming to Vegas standards, which clearly was not the case.

Other than that, they are a reputable and safe operation.

 

[dominique]

I will have to disagree with this. You need look no further than the purported video poker machines available in most arcades in the UK.

The issue is that Slotland actually claimed that this was video poker, and conforming to Vegas standards, which clearly was not the case.

Other than that, they are a reputable and safe operation.

I never saw them claiming that their slots conformed to Vegas Video Poker standards. In any case, they do not claim that now. And have not in a long time.

Vegas is full of slots depicting cards. I personally like slots depicting cards and play them.

Slotland has always done right by its players, pays out well and is a very reputable place.

If you don't like HTML software, don't play there.

 

[guesswest]

I never saw them claiming that their slots conformed to Vegas Video Poker standards. In any case, they do not claim that now. And have not in a long time.

Vegas is full of slots depicting cards. I personally like slots depicting cards and play them.

Slotland has always done right by its players, pays out well and is a very reputable place.

If you don't like HTML software, don't play there.

It's a legal requirement in Nevada that any machine depicting only cards has to work on real odds, ie how an actual deck of cards would work. There are no video machines depicting only cards in NV that are slots, or if there are, they're illegal. Slotland used to say they conformed to Nevada gaming law, which was clearly false. They did remove that comment, as a result of the previous thread, but still refused to state clearly on their VP that it wasn't real VP, and didn't behave based on natural odds. I can see no reason why they'd refuse to do so unless they wanted their players to be unaware that they weren't playing a real video poker game.

As to VP slots in the UK, I live in the UK and I've never seen slots like that. I'll take Spear at his word that they exist, but even if that is so - VP is real VP on every other casino site, and players will take this for granted. There is simply no reason why SL would refuse to make this clear unless they wanted to benefit from people believing it to be real VP. If anyone can give me a valid reason as to why they'd refuse to display this in the game itself, other than to lure unsuspecting VP players, I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong. And truly I'd like to be, as SL do indeed have good CS and payouts.

They even advertise how competitive their pay table is for VP, which is false and ridiculous since all the paytables they're comparing to are based on real VP. Someone could open a site and offer a billion credit return on a natural royal if they programmed the VP to only have it come up every trillion deals, the paytable is meaningless. To say the paytable is 'generous' is false, they're referring to a completely different game. Put simply, they are burying this fact, I can only assume because it's convenient to do so, and going out of their way to imply their VP slot is real VP.

I should say in fairness to SL that they've improved the game description since that original thread started. But the disclaimer is still buried in the instructions (which hardly anyone has any need to look at), and the games are still divided into slots/card games. VP is supposed to be a game of skill after all, making VP a slot removes all skill. It's SL's perogative to make a VP themed slot by all means, but if they're going to do that I think they should be expected to make it crystal clear that that's what it is.

 

[dominique]

Well, darn it, just last week in Vegas I played a couple of games that depicted cards and were slots.

Or maybe they were really VP and just pretended to be slots?

At Slotland it says:

You may try your luck at the Jacks Or Better, the game based on the most classic video poker ever.

and

Striking Sevens machine is similar to popular Deuces Wild video poker. In this game

and

enjoy exciting triple play action at the WildHeart based on Double Joker video poker machine.

"Based on" and "similair to" does not imply that it is the actual game, quite the contrary.

I have rarely done business with any place as responsive, transparent and prompt as Slotland. I wish they were not HTML because then probably more people would enjoy their quirky games. On the other hand, they are a classic and have been doing good business for many years.

 

[spearmaster]

Dom -

Go back and read the older thread. I promise you that the descriptions and terms now are NOT the same as they were earlier.

Slots depicting cards are not as common as you think they are - and in fact mostly do not depict whole cards, only symbols. It's very easy to tell a slot from a video poker machine.

Guesswest - you've never seen the video poker machines in the slot or video arcades? Guess you must already know what ripoffs these places are

 

[guesswest]

I'll not labour this, as I think I'm already guilty of thrashing out material that's been covered the first time around The original thread is a really interesting read, for anyone that's got the time on their hands to sift through it.

On the issue of slots depicting cards. They key factors are 'only' cards, and actual cards (as opposed to symbols like A,J etc). Any video machine depicting only actual cards in NV (and most jurisdictions) has to behave in the same way a real deck/s of cards would. This is not a minor point or a technicality, it's exactly what makes VP a game of skill vs slots pure luck. I don't play much VP myself, but I do play regular poker for a living. It takes a LOT of time to learn all those hand odds, and knowing that I can appreciate what a big deal it is for a VP player to find out a VP machine isn't dealing a real deck - it cancels out all that ability. There are no video slot machines in NV featuring only real cards, or if there are they're run by some clipjoint with a deathwish, I've certainly never seen one. Like I say, I haven't seen the VP based machines Spear mentions, but I can believe it as the UK has very crappy laws for AWP (amusement with prizes, category for low payout machine). The UK does have better legislation for higher payout machines, a category into which SL's VP would definitely fall - but regardless, UK law blows and it's a poor example to follow.

And yes, they changed their language a bit to use words like 'based on' - and they did bury the disclaimer about odds one level higher. But ultimately, numerous people made the very simple request that they post this info on the game itself. And being that the whole site is HTML it'd take them all of 2 minutes to do put that one sentence up. They wouldn't do so. They have a game that looks like video poker, is called video poker, and most people who find it will think it's video poker. If they were genuine in saying it wasn't their aim that people were fooled like this, they'd have no problem posting that info on the game, as requested.

I used to play at SL when I was at University, the HTML was the reason why (heavy handed firewall). It's true that they have good CS, true that they payout. But a refusal to make it clear that the game they offer isn't what it appears to be, is an honesty problem for me - and judging by the posts in the original thread I'm not the only person that feels that way.

 

[The Dude]

Just to set the record straight and to eliminate any speculation, here's the deal on Slotland.

Slotland was listed here for a number of years with virtually no problems nor complaints. When the issues about some of their game descriptions were brought to my attention - I tried having these clarified, but unfortunately they were a bit too slow in rectifying these problems. They were on a media buy here at Casinomeister, so when their campaign lapsed I let them go (there were no Slotland aff links at Casinomeister - wish I had a nickel every time I've said this). Also, I've been tightening up some of the conditions on being listed here as well. The licensing jurisdiction (Anjouan) doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

But nevertheless, Slotland has been in the business for a long time. I've had a very good relationship with them, and have even visited their offices in Prague. They have a high profile with webmasters, and as far as I'm concerned, they treat their players well and have always conducted themselves in a very professional manner (sans the problematic ad copy). I honestly don't think that webmasters who tout Slotland are motivated to say nice things by their affiliate paychecks, but by the fact that Slotland satisfies its customers. I rarely had a problem with them when they were listed here.

 

[Slotmachine]

What about their payout % ??

Thanks for the clarification Meister. Much appreciated. My concern is not the "VP" issue. It's whether their games are random. And that they post 98% payout "certified", but nowhere does it say, certified by whom?! With that sort of affiliate % and bonuses and high payout...I can't do the math, but it seems fishy. I have gotten the "JACKPOT" combination a couple of times, but only when I've played less than max lines, it appears on the, surprise, unbet lines. Given that it's so unlikely to hit a progressive jackpot combination, and I've only deposited like 200 bucks, and gotten the jackpot combination a couple times (on the line that I did not bet on), I find it hard to believe that the reel movements are based on an RNG. OK, they may still be fair, I'm not saying that, but I'd like to see a PWC payout certification to back up that 98% claim.

SM

 

[Bruce Hamilton]

I just made a $50 dep. at "Boredom"land and got their 100% match, but IMO it was a major waste of $50! Their proprietary "software" appears to be nothing more than dynamic HTML... I was playing a slot machine @ $2 per line (5 lines), and everytime I clicked on the handle to pull it, the page simply refreshed itself with the reels in a different location and I either won xx amount or lost $10. I thought the proprietary software at Global Player was boring, but this made GP look like Playtech.

 

[thelawnet]

Just to set the record straight and to eliminate any speculation, here's the deal on Slotland.

Slotland was listed here for a number of years with virtually no problems nor complaints. When the issues about some of their game descriptions were brought to my attention - I tried having these clarified, but unfortunately they were a bit too slow in rectifying these problems. They were on a media buy here at Casinomeister, so when their campaign lapsed I let them go (there were no Slotland aff links at Casinomeister - wish I had a nickel every time I've said this). Also, I've been tightening up some of the conditions on being listed here as well. The licensing jurisdiction (Anjouan) doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

But nevertheless, Slotland has been in the business for a long time. I've had a very good relationship with them, and have even visited their offices in Prague. They have a high profile with webmasters, and as far as I'm concerned, they treat their players well and have always conducted themselves in a very professional manner (sans the problematic ad copy). I honestly don't think that webmasters who tout Slotland are motivated to say nice things by their affiliate paychecks, but by the fact that Slotland satisfies its customers. I rarely had a problem with them when they were listed here.

I think it's good that you don't promote them.

They have a cash cow, which is their players, and they milk them for all they can.

When your games are not fair it's easy not to have complaints about non-payment, because they pay out whatever they like, because there is no chance of say an unexpected $20,000 slots jackpot being hit.

Disregarding the video poker con job, it's good that you won't recommend a casino that is as much of a rip-off as they are.

There is simply no way that they can pay 20% of *deposits* without having awful payout percentages.

Their 98% payout must be bullshit.

On average a player deposits $1000

$200 goes to the affiliate (nice deal, I'm not sure some of the players realise that when they deposit at slotland via certain other gambling forums they are effectively making a $200 donation to the webmaster)
$50 for payment processing costs
$50 for other costs and overhead (guess)
$100 casino profit

Total remaining: $600, or 60% - at 98% payout you would need to wager an average of $20,000 to lose that much.

With slots being as high variance as they are, and the games apparently as tedious, I can't really see that a 20* turnover as likely.

So there's no question that the player gets a really raw deal here.

I don't see how such a joint could ever be 'recommended'.

 

[dominique]

Yes, Slotland is HTML. For some platforms, that is the only type games they can play.

No, I am not profit motivated. Because Slotland is HTML, it doesn't really bring in a lot of money - players are much too used to fast and flashy games. Slotland doesn't draw the big numbers. If I wanted to make every penny I could on slots I would list only Micro slots because they have the biggest following. It's not always about money. For me, a lot of what matters is a clean industry. I know it can seem like a losing battle sometimes, but we do win battles and make progress.

I have a number of players on WebTV browsers who have few choices of where they can play, and most of the other choices are rogue. I get consistently good feedback from these players - they play, they win and lose just like I do every place I play slots. Except at playtech I guess - I never won at slots there.

Then there is another group who is almost like a Slotland cult I guess - who have been playing there for years and years. I get nothing but good feedback there.

I have met the folks from Slotland in person and I get a really good impression.

To me, Slotland is like an old Mom and Pop store. They don't have all the stuff you have come to expect, but the stuff they do have is quality and they are honest people.

And that is why I am standing up for them.