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Poker Complaint What happend Betsafe ? No more trustworthy ?

Discussion in 'Poker Complaints' started by upaymybills, Mar 25, 2013.

    Mar 25, 2013
  1. upaymybills

    upaymybills Account closed - <a href="http://www.casinomeister

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    botosani
    Hi guys,

    One of my poker friends wich I know him perssonaly tried recently to verify his acount with Betfase after he had some good runs in small buy-ins mtt and won a total of 700 euros so he wanted to cashout a part.

    He sent them the following documents : ID photo , moneybookers card photo front/back and a letter from moneybookers , no older then 3 months were you can clearly see that is same adress as on his ID and the answer from Betsafe risk departement wass the following : Our Risk department has made decision to Permanently close your account and we won't be able to help you. This decision is final.

    I've personally tried to get in contact with a Betsafe manager and kindly ask them to review the situation of this player because here is a misunderstanding but with no succes.Mr Patrick Klimmer ( Betsafe Head Manager ) wass verry rude and recommanded me I shouldnt write him anymore about this because it wass confirmed and I taked few minutes from his precious time talking about my friend and accord to his words is a " criminal "

    Skype chat :

    Quote:
    3/22/2013 2:53:26 PM] Patryk KLIMER: You friend have provided fake documents
    [3/22/2013 2:53:30 PM] Patryk KLIMER: End of story
    [3/22/2013 2:57:53 PM] criclevit.mihail: can't be , i've seen those documents
    [3/22/2013 2:58:10 PM] Patryk KLIMER: it is confirmed
    [3/22/2013 2:58:44 PM] Patryk KLIMER: end of conversation
    [3/22/2013 2:58:56 PM] Patryk KLIMER: you know what you should know
    [3/22/2013 2:59:00 PM] criclevit.mihail: no tbh
    [3/22/2013 2:59:12 PM] Patryk KLIMER: dont take my time anymore with criminals
    [3/22/2013 2:59:45 PM] criclevit.mihail: you are wrong my friend
    [3/22/2013 3:00:05 PM] criclevit.mihail: he can get legal authorization
    [3/22/2013 3:00:05 PM] Patryk KLIMER: dude seriously
    [3/22/2013 3:00:12 PM] Patryk KLIMER: dont write anymore
    I would attach here same documents wich wass sent and accepted by Fulltilt and WilliamHill but wass rejected by Betsafe because according to them are fake and his 700 euro frozen.

    1. Photo of ID card



    3. Front Card Photo



    4. Back Card Photo



    5. Photo of moneybookers letter , recently received among with moneybookers card

    ( see next post )




    6.Photo of him with his ID in right hand :


    ( see next post )



    7.Photo of him holding his moneybookers card :


    ( see next post )



    Photo 6 , 7 wass made at my request.So , I would like to know how Betsafe risk departement jumped at the conclusion that those documents are fake and refuse to verify his acount and accept his withdraw request.

    As you can clearly see , Betsafe bassicaly locked without have a good reason and frozed 700 euros from him , they got no proofs to sustain their actions.

    Any help , advices about what we can do to solve this heavy abuse is welcome.I wrote this topic in his name because he got no acount on here and his english is verry verry poor.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2013
  2. Mar 25, 2013
  3. upaymybills

    upaymybills Account closed - <a href="http://www.casinomeister

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    botosani
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2013
  4. Mar 25, 2013
  5. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    From what I saw the rep WAS rather rude and/or curt; however, I'd be curious what parts of chat AREN'T included.
    Anyway, I'm surprised the mngr even spoke to you about another's acct, let alone tag him a criminal; pretty heavy accusation.
     
  6. Mar 25, 2013
  7. upaymybills

    upaymybills Account closed - <a href="http://www.casinomeister

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    botosani
    The only part from the chat were i cut it off it wass when I related him the problem.I thougt if my post would be verry verry long not many people would read it.Anyway I would sent a link to Mr Klimer to offer his right to defend my accusations and proove to you that what I wrote earlier is fantasy.

    The manager spoked with me about his acount because im connected with a eastern european affiliate.
     
  8. Mar 25, 2013
  9. lnspin

    lnspin Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Webmaster - Mygamblinglife.com
    Location:
    WorldWide
    Please supply a blood sample for DNA analysis. Thank you..

    Only thing i can think of was how did he deposit ? Was it a fraud deposit or a deposit from a stole credit card.?
     
  10. Mar 25, 2013
  11. upaymybills

    upaymybills Account closed - <a href="http://www.casinomeister

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    botosani
    He didnt maked any deposit.The money wass build from freerolls then he won over severall mtt this amount.He tried to verify his acount , then deposit and try to cashout a part of his winnings , but they suspend his acount because he provided fake documents as Mr Klimer suggested.

    Here is the last chat he had with live chat operator from Betsafe and since then they refuse to answer at his e-mails.

     
  12. Mar 25, 2013
  13. Mouche12

    Mouche12 Kitty Lover PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Translator and facilities manager
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    1 person likes this.
  14. Mar 25, 2013
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The documents don't look fake at all, and I am looking at what the casino sees, an image file, not the actual documents themselves.

    It would appear you have been lied to about the true reason for non payment, it has nothing to do with the documents, hence they are not interested in all this proof, nor even the offer to have them notarised.

    They could have evidence that your friend isn't the one playing, and is merely allowing his ID to be used by another. This could be where the "he is a criminal" comes from.

    The casino also seem to have shared some personal information about your friend's account, including the potentially libellous statement that he is a criminal. If your friend gave them permission to do this, fine, if not, very questionable (there is another heated debate on what casinos are prepared to share with "fourth parties" about a case).

    The best way forward is a PAB. Even though your friend's English is poor, yours is good enough to be able to help him fill in the PAB form and understand the PAB guide.

    If you are going to try a PAB, neither you nor your friend should discuss this further in public.

    Incidentally, you have exposed your friend's full name and address in the forum, arguably more of a security risk than the information you have blanked out. You can remove these images from within your profile settings even if you can no longer edit those posts, or you could ask a moderator to remove the images and just describe what you posted.

    He should also remove that sticker from his Skrill card as it can appear suspicious if present on an image sent to a casino that is already questioning the legitimacy of an account.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Mar 25, 2013
  17. Sovietsky

    Sovietsky Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Live
    Location:
    Swe

    Totally agree!

    Posting IDs and Skrill info on a forum is not a good idea.
     
  18. Mar 25, 2013
  19. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Something ain't right.

    Why on earth would you post SOMEONE ELSE'S personal ID in a public forum? Its totally irresponsible and you've probably provided sdocument experts" here say that they're "good to go".raudsters with an easy ID scam opportunity.

    You can't submit a PAB on your friends behalf. He has to be the one to do it, although you can of course assist.

    In my experience, players who go to such extreme lengths as you have are trying to divert attention away from the REAL reason for the non-payment and blackmail the casino in public. Of course, it may be 100% legit, but it is extremely rare for 100% legit cases to have to go to this extreme.

    I'm also suspicious of newbs posting "for their friend". I hope the actual player isn't you.

    Forget "libel" or any other legal nonsense, and whether any "document experts" here say that they're "good to go". If the casino won't accept them, the word of one of these self-certified "experts" doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Mar 25, 2013
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The are "good to go" in the sense that they have been well prepared, show some background around the ID card etc, all the things a player needs to do in order to make their documents easy to verify. Taken on their own, the pictures look like they have been taken of genuine documents, and each one is consistent with the other in name, address, etc.

    This can only mean this has nothing to do with the validity of the documents themselves. This leaves the misuse of genuine documents by another party in order to gain a free chip. Of note is that despite his poor English, Skrill wrote to your friend in English, so surely he would be unable to understand the letter, which contains important instruction. I am sure Skrill, like Neteller, offer support in a number of languages, so maybe your friend was OK with his English when applying for, and operating, his Skrill account, but his skills have now deserted him.

    It is also possible that your friend's "excellent English" during his interaction with the poker software, and sudden attack of "poor English" now, is what has made the operator suspicious.

    If I were a betting man, I would not bet against Nifty on this one.
     
  22. Mar 25, 2013
  23. upaymybills

    upaymybills Account closed - <a href="http://www.casinomeister

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    botosani
    As I mentioned before , I'm somehow connected with a affiliate and this is how I got in contact with Betsafe Manager.I don't have any reason to lie , all what I wrote here is what it wass told to me from bouth parts , player and manager.

    What it looks suspicious for me it's this.Why they would suspend his acount based on documents he sent and accusing him that are fake ? Can't be real.At least manager should provide a propper explanantion.

    I would ask him to open a acount on casinomeister and open PIB.Thanks for all advices !

    P.S can a mod remove those images from this thread ?
     
  24. Mar 25, 2013
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Please define "somehow".

    You are not the affiliate, merely "somehow connected", yet you were able to get the casino manager to share such detail about your friend's account:confused:

    I can understand the affiliate your friend signed up through being able to get this level of contact with casino management regarding this account, but you:confused:

    It is not all that common either for casino management to discuss a player's account "with their friend".

    Something just isn't right here, and now we have an affiliate in the equation.
     
  26. Mar 25, 2013
  27. upaymybills

    upaymybills Account closed - <a href="http://www.casinomeister

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    botosani
    His sites wass under my management for around 6 months , this way I got all his contacts/affiliate deals.I'm still working with them as a super moderateur on his forum.
     
  28. Mar 25, 2013
  29. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Admin note: I removed the ID images for security and because the pictures are of a 3rd party.
     
    3 people like this.
  30. Mar 26, 2013
  31. upaymybills

    upaymybills Account closed - <a href="http://www.casinomeister

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    botosani
    Just a small update : Mr Klimer ain't Head Manager on Betsafe , he's key acount manager.My fault , just received this information.
     
  32. Mar 26, 2013
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Still pretty high up in the organisation.

    Did your friend happen to join through this same affiliate site?

    How close a friend is he? Not sure I would let any of my friends just walk off with images of my documents and post them in a forum in a language I don't understand.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Mar 26, 2013
  35. upaymybills

    upaymybills Account closed - <a href="http://www.casinomeister

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    botosani
    Might be same affiliate , no ideea.

    He isn't a close friend , just a poker guy I know for few months and he wass more like desperate because he didn't had any ideea what he could in this situation and 700 euros is like 3 months basic salary in Romania , so you can understand now why.
     
  36. Mar 26, 2013
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    ..and he gave you his documents:confused:

    What he can do in this situation is join CM and PAB. If he is willing to give you his documents, I am sure he will be willing for you to guide him through the PAB process and translate his answers into English for the PAB form.
     
  38. Mar 26, 2013
  39. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Can you smell it too Vinyl? :D
     

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