Poker Complaint What happend Betsafe ? No more trustworthy ?

[upaymybills]

Hi guys,

One of my poker friends wich I know him perssonaly tried recently to verify his acount with Betfase after he had some good runs in small buy-ins mtt and won a total of 700 euros so he wanted to cashout a part.

He sent them the following documents : ID photo , moneybookers card photo front/back and a letter from moneybookers , no older then 3 months were you can clearly see that is same adress as on his ID and the answer from Betsafe risk departement wass the following : Our Risk department has made decision to Permanently close your account and we won't be able to help you. This decision is final.

I've personally tried to get in contact with a Betsafe manager and kindly ask them to review the situation of this player because here is a misunderstanding but with no succes.Mr Patrick Klimmer ( Betsafe Head Manager ) wass verry rude and recommanded me I shouldnt write him anymore about this because it wass confirmed and I taked few minutes from his precious time talking about my friend and accord to his words is a " criminal "

Skype chat :

Quote:
3/22/2013 2:53:26 PM] Patryk KLIMER: You friend have provided fake documents
[3/22/2013 2:53:30 PM] Patryk KLIMER: End of story
[3/22/2013 2:57:53 PM] criclevit.mihail: can't be , i've seen those documents
[3/22/2013 2:58:10 PM] Patryk KLIMER: it is confirmed
[3/22/2013 2:58:44 PM] Patryk KLIMER: end of conversation
[3/22/2013 2:58:56 PM] Patryk KLIMER: you know what you should know
[3/22/2013 2:59:00 PM] criclevit.mihail: no tbh
[3/22/2013 2:59:12 PM] Patryk KLIMER: dont take my time anymore with criminals
[3/22/2013 2:59:45 PM] criclevit.mihail: you are wrong my friend
[3/22/2013 3:00:05 PM] criclevit.mihail: he can get legal authorization
[3/22/2013 3:00:05 PM] Patryk KLIMER: dude seriously
[3/22/2013 3:00:12 PM] Patryk KLIMER: dont write anymore
I would attach here same documents wich wass sent and accepted by Fulltilt and WilliamHill but wass rejected by Betsafe because according to them are fake and his 700 euro frozen.

1. Photo of ID card
Old Attachment (Invalid)


3. Front Card Photo
Old Attachment (Invalid)


4. Back Card Photo
Old Attachment (Invalid)


5. Photo of moneybookers letter , recently received among with moneybookers card

( see next post )




6.Photo of him with his ID in right hand :


( see next post )



7.Photo of him holding his moneybookers card :


( see next post )



Photo 6 , 7 wass made at my request.So , I would like to know how Betsafe risk departement jumped at the conclusion that those documents are fake and refuse to verify his acount and accept his withdraw request.

As you can clearly see , Betsafe bassicaly locked without have a good reason and frozed 700 euros from him , they got no proofs to sustain their actions.

Any help , advices about what we can do to solve this heavy abuse is welcome.I wrote this topic in his name because he got no acount on here and his english is verry verry poor.

 

[upaymybills]

5. Photo of moneybookers letter , recently received among with moneybookers card

Old Attachment (Invalid)

6.Photo of him with his ID in right hand :


Old Attachment (Invalid)


7.Photo of him holding his moneybookers card :


Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[dionysus]

From what I saw the rep WAS rather rude and/or curt; however, I'd be curious what parts of chat AREN'T included.
Anyway, I'm surprised the mngr even spoke to you about another's acct, let alone tag him a criminal; pretty heavy accusation.

 

[upaymybills]

From what I saw the rep WAS rather rude and/or curt; however, I'd be curious what parts of chat AREN'T included.
Anyway, I'm surprised the mngr even spoke to you about another's acct, let alone tag him a criminal; pretty heavy accusation.

The only part from the chat were i cut it off it wass when I related him the problem.I thougt if my post would be verry verry long not many people would read it.Anyway I would sent a link to Mr Klimer to offer his right to defend my accusations and proove to you that what I wrote earlier is fantasy.

The manager spoked with me about his acount because im connected with a eastern european affiliate.

 

[lnspin]

Please supply a blood sample for DNA analysis. Thank you..

Only thing i can think of was how did he deposit ? Was it a fraud deposit or a deposit from a stole credit card.?

 

[upaymybills]

Please supply a blood sample for DNA analysis. Thank you..

Only thing i can think of was how did he deposit ? Was it a fraud deposit or a deposit from a stole credit card.?

He didnt maked any deposit.The money wass build from freerolls then he won over severall mtt this amount.He tried to verify his acount , then deposit and try to cashout a part of his winnings , but they suspend his acount because he provided fake documents as Mr Klimer suggested.

Here is the last chat he had with live chat operator from Betsafe and since then they refuse to answer at his e-mails.

Guntars: Hi, my name is Guntars.
Daniel Iovan: hello
Daniel Iovan: my name is Iovan Ionut Daniel
Daniel Iovan: Dear Daniel Iovan
Your betsafe account is dni92_dani@yahoo.com
A document you have submitted for verification: Proof of ID , has not been approved.
The reason given for this is : The Photo ID you have provided could not be fully verified.
Please upload a corrected version of this document. If you have any questions, please contact us. Our contact details are available on the Contact Us of our website.
Best Regards
Betsafe
Daniel Iovan: ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol
Daniel Iovan: sorry no speak good english
Daniel Iovan: What documents are required
Daniel Iovan: ?
Guntars: One moment please.
Daniel Iovan: ok
Guntars: Risk department is still checking your account. Please hold on.
Daniel Iovan: ?
Daniel Iovan: i do not understand
Daniel Iovan: Attach File-> send you documents ?
Guntars: Our Risk department has made decision to Permanently close your account and we won't be able to help you. This decision is final.
Daniel Iovan: what ?!!!!!
Daniel Iovan: why ??
Guntars: 2.13
Betsafe reserves the right to close down existing accounts without explanation. In this event, or in the event of an account closure by the User, the full balance will be paid out unless any fraudulent behaviour is suspected. Betsafe also reserves the right to report to the appropriate authorities, if any User is involved in any form of suspected fraudulent behaviour.
Daniel Iovan: Well I will send the documents you seek dumineavoastra
Daniel Iovan: extras cont ?
Daniel Iovan: plss no exit account
Guntars: Unfortunately there is nothing that we can do to reopen your account. There is no need for further copies or contacts.
Daniel Iovan: :

 

[Mouche12]

Your friend can use the Pitch A Bitch service at this forum. Good luck! This is the link: Link Outdated / Removed

Once he submits a PAB, please note that this matter cannot be further discussed in the forum.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The documents don't look fake at all, and I am looking at what the casino sees, an image file, not the actual documents themselves.

It would appear you have been lied to about the true reason for non payment, it has nothing to do with the documents, hence they are not interested in all this proof, nor even the offer to have them notarised.

They could have evidence that your friend isn't the one playing, and is merely allowing his ID to be used by another. This could be where the "he is a criminal" comes from.

The casino also seem to have shared some personal information about your friend's account, including the potentially libellous statement that he is a criminal. If your friend gave them permission to do this, fine, if not, very questionable (there is another heated debate on what casinos are prepared to share with "fourth parties" about a case).

The best way forward is a PAB. Even though your friend's English is poor, yours is good enough to be able to help him fill in the PAB form and understand the PAB guide.

If you are going to try a PAB, neither you nor your friend should discuss this further in public.

Incidentally, you have exposed your friend's full name and address in the forum, arguably more of a security risk than the information you have blanked out. You can remove these images from within your profile settings even if you can no longer edit those posts, or you could ask a moderator to remove the images and just describe what you posted.

He should also remove that sticker from his Skrill card as it can appear suspicious if present on an image sent to a casino that is already questioning the legitimacy of an account.

 

[Sovietsky]

T

Incidentally, you have exposed your friend's full name and address in the forum, arguably more of a security risk than the information you have blanked out. You can remove these images from within your profile settings even if you can no longer edit those posts, or you could ask a moderator to remove the images and just describe what you posted.

He should also remove that sticker from his Skrill card as it can appear suspicious if present on an image sent to a casino that is already questioning the legitimacy of an account.

Totally agree!

Posting IDs and Skrill info on a forum is not a good idea.

 

[Nifty29]

Something ain't right.

Why on earth would you post SOMEONE ELSE'S personal ID in a public forum? Its totally irresponsible and you've probably provided sdocument experts" here say that they're "good to go".raudsters with an easy ID scam opportunity.

You can't submit a PAB on your friends behalf. He has to be the one to do it, although you can of course assist.

In my experience, players who go to such extreme lengths as you have are trying to divert attention away from the REAL reason for the non-payment and blackmail the casino in public. Of course, it may be 100% legit, but it is extremely rare for 100% legit cases to have to go to this extreme.

I'm also suspicious of newbs posting "for their friend". I hope the actual player isn't you.

Forget "libel" or any other legal nonsense, and whether any "document experts" here say that they're "good to go". If the casino won't accept them, the word of one of these self-certified "experts" doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Something ain't right.

Why on earth would you post SOMEONE ELSE'S personal ID in a public forum? Its totally irresponsible and you've probably provided sdocument experts" here say that they're "good to go".raudsters with an easy ID scam opportunity.

You can't submit a PAB on your friends behalf. He has to be the one to do it, although you can of course assist.

In my experience, players who go to such extreme lengths as you have are trying to divert attention away from the REAL reason for the non-payment and blackmail the casino in public. Of course, it may be 100% legit, but it is extremely rare for 100% legit cases to have to go to this extreme.

I'm also suspicious of newbs posting "for their friend". I hope the actual player isn't you.

Forget "libel" or any other legal nonsense, and whether any "document experts" here say that they're "good to go". If the casino won't accept them, the word of one of these self-certified "experts" doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

The are "good to go" in the sense that they have been well prepared, show some background around the ID card etc, all the things a player needs to do in order to make their documents easy to verify. Taken on their own, the pictures look like they have been taken of genuine documents, and each one is consistent with the other in name, address, etc.

This can only mean this has nothing to do with the validity of the documents themselves. This leaves the misuse of genuine documents by another party in order to gain a free chip. Of note is that despite his poor English, Skrill wrote to your friend in English, so surely he would be unable to understand the letter, which contains important instruction. I am sure Skrill, like Neteller, offer support in a number of languages, so maybe your friend was OK with his English when applying for, and operating, his Skrill account, but his skills have now deserted him.

It is also possible that your friend's "excellent English" during his interaction with the poker software, and sudden attack of "poor English" now, is what has made the operator suspicious.

If I were a betting man, I would not bet against Nifty on this one.

 

[upaymybills]

As I mentioned before , I'm somehow connected with a affiliate and this is how I got in contact with Betsafe Manager.I don't have any reason to lie , all what I wrote here is what it wass told to me from bouth parts , player and manager.

What it looks suspicious for me it's this.Why they would suspend his acount based on documents he sent and accusing him that are fake ? Can't be real.At least manager should provide a propper explanantion.

I would ask him to open a acount on casinomeister and open PIB.Thanks for all advices !

P.S can a mod remove those images from this thread ?

 

[vinylweatherman]

As I mentioned before , I'm somehow connected with a affiliate and this is how I got in contact with Betsafe Manager.I don't have any reason to lie , all what I wrote here is what it wass told to me from bouth parts , player and manager.

What it looks suspicious for me it's this.Why they would suspend his acount based on documents he sent and accusing him that are fake ? Can't be real.At least manager should provide a propper explanantion.

I would ask him to open a acount on casinomeister and open PIB.Thanks for all advices !

P.S can a mod remove those images from this thread ?

Please define "somehow".

You are not the affiliate, merely "somehow connected", yet you were able to get the casino manager to share such detail about your friend's account

I can understand the affiliate your friend signed up through being able to get this level of contact with casino management regarding this account, but you

It is not all that common either for casino management to discuss a player's account "with their friend".

Something just isn't right here, and now we have an affiliate in the equation.

 

[upaymybills]

Please define "somehow".

You are not the affiliate, merely "somehow connected", yet you were able to get the casino manager to share such detail about your friend's account

I can understand the affiliate your friend signed up through being able to get this level of contact with casino management regarding this account, but you

It is not all that common either for casino management to discuss a player's account "with their friend".

Something just isn't right here, and now we have an affiliate in the equation.

His sites wass under my management for around 6 months , this way I got all his contacts/affiliate deals.I'm still working with them as a super moderateur on his forum.

 

[Simmo!]

Admin note: I removed the ID images for security and because the pictures are of a 3rd party.

 

[upaymybills]

Just a small update : Mr Klimer ain't Head Manager on Betsafe , he's key acount manager.My fault , just received this information.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just a small update : Mr Klimer ain't Head Manager on Betsafe , he's key acount manager.My fault , just received this information.

Still pretty high up in the organisation.

Did your friend happen to join through this same affiliate site?

How close a friend is he? Not sure I would let any of my friends just walk off with images of my documents and post them in a forum in a language I don't understand.

 

[upaymybills]

Still pretty high up in the organisation.

Did your friend happen to join through this same affiliate site?

How close a friend is he? Not sure I would let any of my friends just walk off with images of my documents and post them in a forum in a language I don't understand.

Might be same affiliate , no ideea.

He isn't a close friend , just a poker guy I know for few months and he wass more like desperate because he didn't had any ideea what he could in this situation and 700 euros is like 3 months basic salary in Romania , so you can understand now why.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Might be same affiliate , no ideea.

He isn't a close friend , just a poker guy I know for few months and he wass more like desperate because he didn't had any ideea what he could in this situation and 700 euros is like 3 months basic salary in Romania , so you can understand now why.

..and he gave you his documents

What he can do in this situation is join CM and PAB. If he is willing to give you his documents, I am sure he will be willing for you to guide him through the PAB process and translate his answers into English for the PAB form.

 

[Nifty29]

..and he gave you his documents

What he can do in this situation is join CM and PAB. If he is willing to give you his documents, I am sure he will be willing for you to guide him through the PAB process and translate his answers into English for the PAB form.

Can you smell it too Vinyl?

 

[upaymybills]

Can you smell it too Vinyl?

It's nothing shady here sir.I can assure you off that.I can provide you detailed proofs if you are thinking that I use his identity for multiacounting.First off all he asked for info about what documents Betsafe ask for KYC procces on non-english forum and when they blocked his acount he posted there and asked for help and then I offered my services to try help him because I also know him personally for a while.It's all there , just ask and I can send you PM with link , i've got no reason to lie or defend an guilty guy.

 

[upaymybills]

..and he gave you his documents

What he can do in this situation is join CM and PAB. If he is willing to give you his documents, I am sure he will be willing for you to guide him through the PAB process and translate his answers into English for the PAB form.

Correct , he gave me his documents because I wass curios also to take a look on them after Mr Klimmer told me that are fake and this wass the reason he got his acount blocked.I would ask him to create a casinomeister acount and I would assit him to complete a PAB form.Cheers !

 

[vinylweatherman]

Correct , he gave me his documents because I wass curios also to take a look on them after Mr Klimmer told me that are fake and this wass the reason he got his acount blocked.I would ask him to create a casinomeister acount and I would assit him to complete a PAB form.Cheers !

Mr Klimmer was quite clear, they were not merely "suspicious", he was 100% convinced they were fake, and said so. He even went on to call your new friend "a criminal".

A PAB is the best way to get to the bottom of this, and the sooner the better. Max will be able to see the situation from the casino's side, and find out just why they are 100% certain the documents are fake, something they are not going to tell you as they probably feel you are part of the scam. Maybe your friend has several different identities he is using online, and the casino has found him using another account with a different name somewhere. You don't know him that well, having met after he asked for help on a forum.

 

[dni92dani]

Hi,
I'm Daniel Iovan Ionut.With upaymybills help i'm writing to you right now.

I understood that i'm not allowed to post on forums how long the PAB is still in procces but i've sent on 12 april some important proofs to MaxD and i'm not sure that he got them because I didn't get any e-confirmation mail from hil till now.
I understand he might be verry bussy but all I would like to receive is a confirmation.
Best wishes,
Daniel Iovan Ionut

 

[upaymybills]

Hi,

I'm posting in Daniel name now.

I adviced him to withdrawl his PAB because maxd never answered at his e-mails and this is going nowhere.With my help he provided all proos and in my opinion this wass a easy situation to solve.

maxd had al the proofs : documents , screenshots from e-mails were Betsafe told clearly that the reason Daniel got his acount blocked because they couldn't verify his ID ( poor quality of picture ) and that decision wass final and ireversible tooked by Betsafe team management.My question is now : Shouldn't they ask for a better quality ? They find in him a easy prade.

After some google research i find out that it's normal for Betsafe to lock people acounts and claim that they send fake ID's and confiscate their funds. ( this is not a single case ).Most of people complained about them that since Betsson buyed them they go on a wrong road.I also noticed that 2p2 blocks every thread were people complains about Betsafe without giving s single reason why they do it.

I find it verry rude not to answer e-mails for over then a month just to say that you received them and you tooked note of them and you are curently still working on PAB.I perssonaly trust Casinomeister and even signed up with a casino from 32red group to play because i feel safety here but after just happend i'm asking myself again same question but the answer isn't the same as at start.

My question at the moment is : The PAB free service is a deception ? Just to atract people and make them feel safe when nobody really care and do something to solve them ? You decide.

CasinoEuro Rep wich i got good reason to believe is Patrik Klimmer ( same guy who insulted Daniel and told him that he's a criminal ).This robbery won't going forever.Karma is a bitch.