Question What do you think about skill-based slots?

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Bitcasino.io_Karl

One of the world's leading Bitcoin-powered casinos
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Hey guys :)

In the hopes of attracting the younger generation, skill games are now being introduced into casinos both offline and online. Why?
Because millennials are used to playing games on gaming consoles (PlayStation, XBox), tablets, phones and massive multiplayer roleplaying games (MMRPG).

So what are skill games, and how exactly do they work? Let’s talk about it.

What are skill games?

Skills games are casino games where players are rewarded based on their skill or ability to play a game. The outcome is determined by the player’s ability/skill, rather than by chance. The better you play, the higher the reward.

Skill-based games VS traditional games

Traditional slots and skill-based gaming machines both use RNG-s to determine the return to player. In traditional slots, you make a bet, spin the reels and wait for the outcome. Easy and fun. But with skill-based slots, you can boost your payout. The control over your outcome is generally applied during bonus rounds.

Popular skill games

We have a selection of skill games from Green Jade, a leading gaming provider of arcade skill games.

1. HAMMER OF FORTUNE

HammerofFortune (1).jpg


A highly popular game, Hammer of Fortune ups the ante by with its intriguing narrative and the all-important hammer that affects the payout based on your skill. What’s special about this game is the hammer and its energy levels that can help you get Loot Chest Wins.

* There are 5 energy levels on the Hammer that get filled with energy as you spin.
* What you want to do is to use the Hammer to get the 3 Treasure Chests in the same row so that you win cash prizes or free spins.
* Each of the 5 energy levels on the Hammer lets you can smash one symbol.
* When your Hammer is energised and at least 3 Treasure Chests appear on adjacent reels, you can use the Hammer to smash down symbols (a maximum of 5, equivalent to the 5 energy levels) to get the Treasure Chests into the same row.

2. SIDE BET

Side bet.jpg


Side Bet is a classic 3 by 3 slot game with flip boards that will remind you of old train stations and airports. What’s special is the namesake of this game - the side bet, which affects the payout you get.

* The side bet has its own bet amount that is independent of your main machine’s bet amount.
* In the side bet, you get to choose where you think which symbols will land. You can choose a maximum of 3 symbols at one time, and how much you want to wager on the side bet.
* Your side bet has to be made before you spin the reels.
* If you make a side bet with more than one symbol, all symbols have to be correct in order for you to win the side bet.

3. CANDY WALL

candy wall.png


Want a skill-based casino game that isn’t a slot? Then head over to Candy Wall! Candy Wall requires multiple skill elements in each minute of gameplay, giving you a combination of both skill and chance.

The skill aspect of this game lies with your control of the candy cannon. As the candy falls, your job is to blast it all without losing the candy cannon’s health or getting hit by any of the enemy candies.

As the game progresses, you’ll get fired at by enemy candies and you have to keep watch as your candy cannon can only take a certain amount of hits. The game is lost when candy passes beyond the candy dispenser or when your candy cannon gets destroyed.

Let us know have you played skill-based games before and what do you prefer = traditional slots or skill games?

Thanks :)
Karl
Bitcasino.io
 

Siohmy

Experienced Member
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Aug 9, 2012
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Blighty
By design all skill based games do is increase the casinos edge for those who are not so skilled. The skilled players will not turn a machine into a profitable proposition so while probably fun you are effectively fighting to get to the 95-96% RTP a standard slot gives out. I guess they may be more attractive if you, as a skilled player, can get that RTP up to around 98-99%.

Can’t help but think these may be a short term fad.
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
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Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
Was just going to say that.
A way for casinos to get more money out of the players.
The ones being good at the game can probably expect a normal rtp, and the people being shit at it get robbed.

@Siohmy
If you want 98% return, just complete these levels without dying once.
Every death removes 10% rtp.
Good luck!

 

ChopleyIOM

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I'm not even convinced these are skill games.

For example for Hammer of Fortune RTP is listed as 94.99% with no mention of variable results based on strategy.

You can find the game in demo play if you have a Google on it.

Either way, if we are to assume 94.99% is the 'best' RTP if there is some strategy, that's not even great for a random game, let alone a skill game where you can reduce that further by being crap at it.
 

CasinoNinja

Senior Member
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Apr 27, 2017
Location
UK
How is the side bet a "skill" game? You are still just betting on a random outcome, and increase your volatility by betting on more symbols. I don't see that as any "skill".. ?

Only skill I can read from here is the cannon
 

johnnymcc1966

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2017
Location
United Kingdom
I thought we were going to be talking about completing a level of Tomb Raider 3 without being killed and winning cash. I'd probably give that a try even if it has been 25 years since I last played it.
 

TheD

Newbie member
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Jul 24, 2020
Location
UK
The outcome is determined by the player’s ability/skill, rather than by chance. The better you play, the higher the reward.
I haven’t even played those games you mentioned, but it’s clear from the description alone that it is not trueskill based.

What you described sounds more like strategy. A player is required to learn over time the perfect strategy which will result in a 95% RTP.

If what I’m saying is the truth, then these games are predatory. People will fall victim to believing they can beat the slot If they invest enough money in learning how to play.

There will never be a true skill slot because it would be exploited.

Can you please explain why you believe these games and skill based?
 

Bitcasino.io_Karl

One of the world's leading Bitcoin-powered casinos
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Feb 28, 2020
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Germany
Hi TheD,

In traditional slots, you make a bet, spin the reels and wait for the outcome. Easy and fun. But with skill-based slots, you can boost your payout, and control over your outcome is generally applied during bonus rounds. So if you use your skills and play well on the bonus rounds, you’ll appreciate the opportunity to win more money based on how well you play the bonuses.

Cheers,
Karl
Bitcasino.io
 

ChopleyIOM

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Thanks for that Karl, but why does Hammer of Fortune list a fixed RTP of 94.99% if there are skill elements that can affect the payout?

It also seems to have a sort of 'kickback mechanism' with the chest round, which suggests to me that all the player is doing is modifying the volatility, rather than affecting the underlying RTP.

Moreover, if there ARE skill elements that affect the RTP, then considering that the best case scenario is 94.99% (which isn't amazing to start with), the only conclusion there is that players could really shaft themselves if they make bad choices.

If a player's choices can affect RTP that should be stated in the help file, I know on games from other providers that offer RTP-affecting strategy choices (note I do NOT mean skill, but strategy), the help file will state something like, 'RTP is 89.45% to 95.45% depending on player strategy'.

Moreover, the help file should also list what that optimal strategy is.
 

Copperzzz

Full Member
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Dec 30, 2019
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Netherlands
I think skill based slots are dumb, just create the skill game itself and don't put it in a slot seems a more logical option. Like a Tetris competition with prizes, but then it's just a gaming competition. Skill + slot just doesn't go together imo.
 

ChopleyIOM

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Oh I dunno, sometimes they can work out OK where the skill element is genuine and if you can get good enough at it, you can nudge the RTP of the slot up to around 99% :)

(I'm still quite pleased with this one, beating the 'UNBEATABLE BONUS' at Tropica Casino back in the day, and indeed having been told by several CM members that it was an unbeatable bonus and I would just be setting fire to my money....)

Rival hit this slot (and indeed the bonus) with a nerf bat so big it could be seen from space after I did this, although in fairness Tropica Casino did pay me first!

 
Last edited:

Lemon

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I think the definition of 'skill' varies between countries, especially the UK where increased levels of skill and knowledge over the last 2 or 3 decades have given some people a huge long-term advantage. But we're talking about compensated games where Joe Public are forced to play an 80%-return game with skill elements at more like 50-60%, so a select group of skilful people can play constantly at 150-200%.

The concept of a random slot game with an element of skill in a bonus round is an intriguing one but this niche (but growing) sector will always be very difficlut to crack. If someone does manage it then the rest of the industry will be playing catch-up.
I don't see the value for the player in learning how to play a game optimally if all it does is allow them to lose their money more slowly. At the same time if you offer a short-term RTP of over 100% to players with the most skill it will only be to the detriment of less-skilled players in order to balance it out. There needs to be a genuine reason to put time and effort into becoming skilful at a game.

I wonder whether a bonus round hi-score table where the top-100 every month go into a prize draw would be a better solution? Your name can appear only once, so if you beat your own score it just updates your single entry. 100 different names in the top-100 at the end of every month, 1 lucky person wins a car...?
You'd make sure your name was on that table on the 31st of the month, win or lose.
 

TheD

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UK
In traditional slots, you make a bet, spin the reels and wait for the outcome. Easy and fun. But with skill-based slots, you can boost your payout, and control over your outcome is generally applied during bonus rounds.
As the games are blocked for my country I was unable to test them and can only go by your description so please correct me if anything I say is inaccurate.

In your opening post you said the payout was not determined by chance, but by skill. You have then followed up by admitting the skill element only applies to the bonus round.

The skill element is therefore negated by the fact you must first trigger a RNG bonus. The slot can simply set the average frequency of a bonus to guarantee that even the most skilful player in the world can’t win long term.

It is disconcerting to hear that these games are being used to target new and unsuspecting players. Attempting to lure them in with the false belief that they can beat a slot machine if they invest enough money to hone their skills.
 

Bitcasino.io_Karl

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Hi guys,

In my opinion, the skill games are not used for targeting unsuspecting users. You just need to do some research, learn and of course practise :) In some skill games, there are added community prize pools called compensation pots. The RTP in Hammer of Fortune is 95% when playing the perfect strategy, if a player doesn’t play the perfect strategy they will have a lower RTP. Let’s say they make some mistakes and their longterm RTP is 90%. The 5% that is left over from that player is added to the community pool, where someone, who plays the perfect strategy, has a chance to win that money. If there are a lot of people who make mistakes then it would even be possible to have an RTP of over 100%. You can also read our blog post
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.

Cheers,
Karl
Bitcasino.io
 

ChopleyIOM

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Right I actually took the time to play Hammer of Fortune in demo play to get my head around the 'skill mechanics'.

It took about 10 seconds.

Also, the game pauses whenever there's a 'skill interaction' and whilst it will let you make a bad choice, what you have to do is so blatantly obvious that it's honestly stretching the boundaries of what can meaningfully be described as 'skill'.

Frankly, anyone who doesn't have the mental capacity to play optimal strategy on this game probably shouldn't be gambling in the first place.

So we're left with, ultimately, a game with an RTP that's slightly the wrong side of 95%, and for anyone to achieve more than that by winning out of the 'community pot' that fills up when players make bad choices, is effectively taking money out of the pockets of vulnerable people.
 

incrediblestuff

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I'm not even convinced these are skill games.

For example for Hammer of Fortune RTP is listed as 94.99% with no mention of variable results based on strategy.

You can find the game in demo play if you have a Google on it.

Either way, if we are to assume 94.99% is the 'best' RTP if there is some strategy, that's not even great for a random game, let alone a skill game where you can reduce that further by being crap at it.
Yeah, no worries there: MrGreen had this as an exclusive back when i still played with them, and i was interested so gave it a thorough testing run. Definitely not Skill-based...

I can see what market it caters to though..
All in all most of the so called Skill based or 'adventure' slots are nothing near what i consider challenging, it's all just a click and spin principle, nothing more nothing less. There were some older sites back in the day at least where you could play rummikub and backgammon for money, that's more like it..

3Dice, which you like, had a Patience game for years, which was pretty unique as far as i know - alas they did not bring it back when they migrated to the new browser/mobile platform. perhaps they will at some point :)

Other than that i'm definitely expecting some actual skill based slots in the near future, and i can only hope they reward dedication and skill: that would absolutely be something i am keen on trying!
 

goatwack

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It's just a dumbing-down to an already dumb pastime if anything

Just as I predicted casinos would merge AML with Responsible Gambling to confuse the bejesus out of punters, now we have the rather predictable crossover into video gaming, as also foreshadowed :rolleyes:

So now we're to be the lucky recipients of these bastardized hybrids that have about as much interaction as my elbows.

Because as we're seeing, there's no 'skill' element to be found here, it's simply a chance for greedy developers to bask in their own brilliance, and to swizzle players into HOPEFULLY getting to a respectable RTP %, for when passively implementing them in games just isn't enough anymore :rolleyes:

The only ones truly beguiled by such a weak concept would be a target audience of utter slotting noobs or essentially younger, tech/ device- riddled 'casual' gamers that like to have an 'interactive' flutter, as they veer between their apps.

So in essence it's an awful and cynical cash-grab with no bones made about it, and it certainly has no place in slotting. Don't be surprised if they eventually incorporate microtransactions to give 'losing' players a 'competitive edge' :cool:

twats
 

TheD

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UK
In the hopes of attracting the younger generation, skill games are now being introduced into casinos both offline and online. Why?
Because millennials are used to playing games on gaming consoles (PlayStation, XBox), tablets, phones and massive multiplayer roleplaying games (MMRPG).
I originally thought this was your own personal opinion, but I can now see it’s the sales pitch used by Green Jade.

Of course they are going to claim that their amazing unique patented skill balance pot mechanic is going to flood your casino with a new generation of players. But I doubt they even believe that themselves.

If they are trying to attract video gamers, why set the skill level insultingly low? Gamers are used to being challenged, but here you have a game a toddler could quickly master.

What really baffles me though is why they chose to set the game to 94.99% rtp instead of 95%. The whole point in reducing a number by 0.01 is to make it feel lower than it really is. Many will avoid playing altogether as soon as they see that 94% as it feels much more unattractive than 95%.
 

k6kaysix

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Aug 8, 2016
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UK
Back in the day in the UK as a broke student I spent rather a lot of my time watching TV phone in quiz shows, you know the ones with the premium rate number and 'impossible' puzzles

But then ITV (a major UK TV channel) launched their own call and lose channel and I literally made tens of thousands by just using the free web entry :)

Back to linking the story to this thread and one of the shows was a 'pub quiz' style affair, so you went through a round of 10 or so pub quiz style questions for a chance to be put through to the studio and as a result win a varying amount of prize money (£200 - £500 generally)

Anyway no free web entry going on here but I decided to have a few goes on the phone as it seemed a fun enough little concept, only to quickly work out the chances of being picked to be put through seemed heavily based on your time taken to answer the questions as well as how many you got right of course...enter a laptop sat right next to the TV with Google open and some very fast fingers at the ready! (This was back in 2005ish so picture technology from that year rather than 2020 if you can!)

As a bonus for getting through they even gave you a free shot at a heads or tails style game, get a sequence of 5 right for a bonus £500 which I managed several times but that is just pure luck of course :)

In the end I was getting through literally every night, sometimes several times - I must have easily spent £2,000 on the calls but in return won over £20,000 just from that alone! I became such a regular they even invited me to the studio once to be on TV but sadly I couldn't make the trip in time for the show :(

I used to have a massive folder with all my winner letters as back in those days it was a cheque in the post but unfortunately I think I binned it when I moved house!
 

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