What Are The Players Rights ...


Senior Member
Jun 20, 2005
As a player of Micro Casinos and an avid reader of Mr.Meister forum ( thank you for the awesome forum, you provide for us all. ) . I've really developped an unsettling feeling towards some of the eCOGRA sealed Casinos. In the complaint section there are a cple of topics going on. Which brings up a question that I think should be addressed.

What are the players rights :what:

For the players that take bonuses on those deposits. We must make sure in writing ( via email. Not phone. ) that we do indeed, qualify for the bonus. But not only that, we must take screen shots of the terms and conditions on this bonus that we want to partake in. However, after reading some current posts. Doing the above is still not 100% guarantee in receiving the bonus.

I personally don't play at one group of Casinos do to the fact on the spam emails I get on a daily bases. With each one I receive, I report to Spam Cop. So I've totally stopped playing at this Micro group that seems to think I don't already get enough junk mail, so they make sure I get theirs.

Then another group of Micro, decided to up their min deposit to $50.00. I ask myself, why would I want to deposit that amount, for the support they provide or lack of, is the better term to use. When along, I though they were trying to improve the way the support staff worked.

It appears even the good groups at one time are slowly going downhill. Or perhaps not downhill, but doing such things to players that may come across as looking a wee bit "shady." Why do we the players have to go through such much B.S. to spend our money..lol. I love the "loyal program/points." However, is it really worth all the B.S. that one has to go through, for it?! I think NOT!

With all my rambling being said. ( or typed ) I do know of ONE right that we the players DO indeed have. That right is to play at a Casino that provides five start treatment. Regardless if you're a high roller or that of a low roller. I always said to myself, IF and when, I make their club rouge member list. That would be the end of me spending my money at any other Micro Casino out there. 32Red doesn't have a loyal program. But you know, the support and the treatment is by far better than any other Micro out there. Not to mention, the chips I've found in my acct. is by far more than any loyal program out there. So I suggest to those players out there, that seem to be having so much trouble here lately. To give 32Red a try. You will see the five star treatment that is often mentioned in posts on this forum.

~Best Of Luck To You All In 2006~:thumbsup:
I know dealing with casinos can be a hassle. But players have the right not to play at casinos which they do not like. Hopefully if enough people do this those casinos will change their ways or go out of business.

Other than that players do not have many if any rights. Especially in the US where online gaming is a grey area.
I think Adam has a point - players have the ultimate weapon in their hands - that of withholding their business from casinos that do not provide the right level of integrity, sensitivity and efficiency. Unfortunately bonuses, the hassle of going elsewhere or other reasons tend to blind some players to the value of that weapon.

That said, for balance I think we have to see this issue in perspective:

1) It shouldn't happen, but it does because that's the human condition - people make bad decisions and silly mistakes, and there are of course those who are thorough-going crooks from the get-go and should be thrown out of the industry. Casinos are no exception and in a global industry with diverse standards (and in some places none at all) they sometimes get away with it. That is why eCOGRA is trying to impose some sort of uniform international standard of operational practice on the casino owners that commit to its principles.

The ideal would of course be government regulation that works all over the world, or perhaps collaborative regulation between those major jurisdictions that protect most of the players. That is not happening right now and regulation by individual nations will always be confined to companies that choose to operate and license in that particular jurisdiction.

Other ways of approaching the problem like eCOGRA try and cross these national divides and can (and have) helped players. This is the cue for eCOGRA critics to point out that the Fair Gaming Advocate did make one screw-up some time ago, ironically involving the Lake Palace group. That single bad FGA decision was revisited and overturned by the Board when the case was reopened after an appeal by a poster here and at WOL.

Players should never accept bad treatment or inefficiency - and certainly not dishonest practice. Where they have a legitimate case against a casino they should complain to Casinomeister, the licensing jurisdiction, eCOGRA, the future UK Gambling Commission, Montana and whoever else provides a channel to chase these incidents down and *encourage* the casino to do the right thing.

And players should use that ultimate weapon of withholding their business - hitting wallets definitely gets the attention of any business.

2) We mainly see the baddies aired here and that can colour our perception that the whole industry is rotten. It isn't, although it does suffer from the reputations created by badly run casinos like the ones referred to in the first post here by PNW Girl 38. There are many online casinos out there that occasionally screw-up but are fundamentally honest and handle huge volumes of player business every day without hassles. There's always room for improvement - consistent perfection eludes most of us.

3) There are unquestionably irritating identity and other requirements imposed by the casinos, and these need to be frequently re-examined in the light of new ideas and technologies...but in many cases these are measures that the casinos have had to introduce over time to guard against fraudulent players and other thieves (yes, players can be crooked, too!) Or, growing international requirements to curtail non-gambling related misdeeds like money laundering.

I agree that 32 Red deservedly has one of the strongest reputations on the Internet, but it is not alone in providing usually safe and honest gambling.
It's an important topic, thanks for starting it, PNWGirl38. And an excellent analysis, as usual, by Jetset.

I agree with both posters. While 32Red is not the only good casino around, it is a perfect case study on how to properly run an online Casino. From what I've seen in the forum lately, it looks like a lot of people are taking their business from some other MG groups to 32Red, because of the problems PNWGirl38 mentioned.

From the recent discussions here, I have noticed that the main issues making people unhappy are related to 1) bonuses and 2) customer support

Simmo! pointed out elsewhere in this forum that a lot of players would like to see more emphasis on rewarding loyalty, instead of match bonus offers with tight WR's attached. I could not agree more. Sure, the bonuses cause a lot of grief to players, but more importantly, bonus-related queries and hassles seem to overload the casino customer support teams, which results in poor overall support. A regular, non-bonus player is not happy when he/she gets poor CS because the CS is too busy handling the sign-up bonus players' issues.

The problem is, it seems that a lot of the casinos get most of their profit from new players signing up for the bonuses, at least in the short term. It seems that unfortunately the casinos can't afford to focus on their loyal players. Obviously I don't have the solution to that, but I think 32Red is showing that focus on loyal players will give better results in the long run, and risk of bad publicity is smaller.

I'd like to see the monthly cashback % for loyal players increased at the expense of signup bonuses. To me, getting some of my losses back at the end of each month is a strong incentive.

I agree with Jetset that organizations such as eCogra are important, and need to be developed further. I think Casinomeister is already such an organization, and the Meister has proven that he can really make things happen, more so than eCogra I think. Clearly, a regulatory organ is needed to protect the players, and such an organization can protect the casinos as well.

We can encourage this development by playing at Casinomeister approved and eCogra approved casinos; by voting with our wallets.

I agree that Bryan, despite his finite manpower resources (no offence, Vortran!) gets through a tremendous amount of dispute work along with his many other business tasks, and his advantage over and above a wide circle of contacts is that he can operate across software platforms, bureaucracies, industry politics, personal animosities and national boundaries.

But I think he would agree that other channels can be useful in spreading the load.

The Fair Gaming Advocate issues quarterly reports on disputes stats involving "Play It Safe" seal casinos, and I think it may be interesting to look at the next one and compare volumes handled. Of course, the FGA only handles complaints about seal casinos, but that encompasses a huge chunk of the total online gambling business and should therefore be a good indicator.

But the main concept here is that players do have people to turn to when they have genuine complaints. Unfortunately, it is mainly the savvy players who have discovered the value of message boards like this who know that.
Such excellent reading and valid points. Thank you members!

To quote SlotMachine : "We can encourage this development by playing at Casinomeister approved and eCogra approved casinos; by voting with our wallets."

Couldn't have been said better! :thumbsup:
Thanks all for your support.

Yes, I am a busy guy - and players disputes are only a part of what I do, oddly enough it is not my main preoccupation. I do it mainly because I can.

My main focus - preoccupation - goal - is to provide information.
Google "online casino information" and I'm there.

I wish there will be a day that players will come here mainly to gather information and screw around with each other in the forum. I wish that the PAB section would wither-up and blow away. That's my dream.

But as long as there are sub-standard casinos allowed to do business on the Internet, there will be no shying away from this.

I wish I had a dollar for every visitor that came here AFTER having a problem. I receive these emails all the time, and probably a third of the PABs that come in are from players who wish they knew this site existed before they dealt with knuckleheadcasino.com or its brethren. I hear it all the time.

Google "online casino problems" and I'm there too.

I do no marketing - this is not a marketing site and my expenditure per month for marketing is zero. It's all word of mouth - viral marketing. And it's good. So far in the past several months I've been interviewed by US News & World Report, LA Times, and Rollingstone Magazine. The mainstream press knows about me and that this site makes a difference.

Many players don't know about Casinomeister until it's too late. But then many of those who do find it too late start to get involved and that's a good thing. My advice is to spread the word. That's all.

And like Jetset mentioned, I can't do it all. My little robot helps me with the webcasts and can spot a rogue pretty well, but that's about it. So Casinomeister is not perfect - I can't answer all the emails, I refuse to work weekends and holidays, and if it's snowing outside you'll find me building a snowman, and if it's bitching hot out - I'll be chillin' in the shade. And don't forget guitar day.

But other than that, we try to do the best we can with what we have.

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