Were do i stand?

Luckyscouser45

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Hi all i had an account with bell fruit a long time ago and self excluded for 6 months. I forgot all about it. Then they changed to admiral casino. I made an account and deposited quite a bit earlier this evening i deposited £35 it credited the account and then within 2 mins i was frozen out of my account on speaking via email to customer services they told me i was banned from there platform for a duplicate account. Feeling very peeved off though as theres money sat in there that i cant use so basically they are witholding. Its not a lot but its the moral of it. I fully understand there policy but i did genuinly forget about my old bell fruit account. :(
 

dunover

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Hi all i had an account with bell fruit a long time ago and self excluded for 6 months. I forgot all about it. Then they changed to admiral casino. I made an account and deposited quite a bit earlier this evening i deposited £35 it credited the account and then within 2 mins i was frozen out of my account on speaking via email to customer services they told me i was banned from there platform for a duplicate account. Feeling very peeved off though as theres money sat in there that i cant use so basically they are witholding. Its not a lot but its the moral of it. I fully understand there policy but i did genuinly forget about my old bell fruit account. :(
They will refund you as you are excluded under that licence and they spotted it quickly. Better now than if you'd won hundreds and it was spotted on cash-out.
 

colinsunderland

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They will refund you as you are excluded under that licence and they spotted it quickly. Better now than if you'd won hundreds and it was spotted on cash-out.

Exactly right, other larger casinos should follow them.
 

Harry_BKK

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Hi all i had an account with bell fruit a long time ago and self excluded for 6 months. I forgot all about it. Then they changed to admiral casino. I made an account and deposited quite a bit earlier this evening i deposited £35 it credited the account and then within 2 mins i was frozen out of my account on speaking via email to customer services they told me i was banned from there platform for a duplicate account. Feeling very peeved off though as theres money sat in there that i cant use so basically they are witholding. Its not a lot but its the moral of it. I fully understand there policy but i did genuinly forget about my old bell fruit account. :(

You posted now in various threads and all are about SE issues, where you do an SE and then register at a different casino from the same group but mysteriously never know that they are in the same group! :confused:

That happens to a normal player once, and after that he makes sure to check if the next casino he/she registers with is not part of group where he/she has SE'ed.

You having multiple issues of this kind and always looking for ways to get a refund, indicates that you are trying to take advantage of the SE regulations.

How many more casino accounts did you open, where you got paid and never raised the question of sister sites?

How many more "oops, I SE'ed at a casino from the same group, but I didn't know that, honestly" moments do you need before this is seen as an attempted fraud? :rolleyes:

My advice would be to seek help for your gambling addiction, since you don't seem to be able to control your gaming, considering your numerous Self-Exclusions. Unless of course, they are made to take advantage of them.
 
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Luckyscouser45

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Me????? Your getting me mixed up with somebody else. I can screenshot every post ive made and not one has been about self exclusion? And they arent paying me back they have sent me a message saying they are donating my last deposit to gamble aware which i think is appalling. i didnt use the last £35 deposit because as soon as i deposited the final time they blocked account. I am livid. And bit annoyed that the above poster is saying i have posted loads about self exclusions that is not true at all!
 

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colinsunderland

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You posted now in various threads and all are about SE issues, where you do an SE and then register at a different casino from the same group but mysteriously never know that they are in the same group! :confused:

That happens to a normal player once, and after that he makes sure to check if the next casino he/she registers with is not part of group where he/she has SE'ed.

You having multiple issues of this kind and always looking for ways to get a refund, indicates that you are trying to take advantage of the SE regulations.

How many more casino accounts did you open, where you got paid and never raised the question of sister sites?

How many more "oops, I SE'ed at a casino from the same group, but I didn't know that, honestly" moments do you need before this is seen as an attempted fraud? :rolleyes:

My advice would be to seek help for your gambling addiction, since you don't seem to be able to control your gaming, considering your numerous Self-Exclusions. Unless of course, they are made to take advantage of them.

Which posts, I can't see any about SE by him
 
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Tirilej

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Me????? Your getting me mixed up with somebody else. I can screenshot every post ive made and not one has been about self exclusion? And they arent paying me back they have sent me a message saying they are donating my last deposit to gamble aware which i think is appalling. i didnt use the last £35 deposit because as soon as i deposited the final time they blocked account. I am livid. And bit annoyed that the above poster is saying i have posted loads about self exclusions that is not true at all!

Don't worry. He knows he made a mistake and took you for someone else. He just didn't have the time to correct it but I'm sure he will later :)
 

dunover

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You posted now in various threads and all are about SE issues, where you do an SE and then register at a different casino from the same group but mysteriously never know that they are in the same group! :confused:

That happens to a normal player once, and after that he makes sure to check if the next casino he/she registers with is not part of group where he/she has SE'ed.

You having multiple issues of this kind and always looking for ways to get a refund, indicates that you are trying to take advantage of the SE regulations.

How many more casino accounts did you open, where you got paid and never raised the question of sister sites?

How many more "oops, I SE'ed at a casino from the same group, but I didn't know that, honestly" moments do you need before this is seen as an attempted fraud? :rolleyes:

My advice would be to seek help for your gambling addiction, since you don't seem to be able to control your gaming, considering your numerous Self-Exclusions. Unless of course, they are made to take advantage of them.


Harry - can you show us where else this person has posted similar before making these statements? If they have, perhaps provide a CM post link in your post so the readers can see this. If you have got this wrong, I know you don't need asking to remedy it. Thanks! :thumbsup:
 

Harry_BKK

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I think your getting me mixed up? Ive not once posted about self exclusion????????? So you are definatly mixing me up with someone else pal.

Sorry Luckyscouser45, it indeed mixed up your thread with posts from another newbie: coolrunnings19. Was reading multiple threads and somehow got you into the mix. My apologies.

Still, and this is not at all directed at you, I am sick and tired of this SE-BS.

If people have a gambling problem, by all means they should do a SE but they should stop opening accounts, instead they should do something about your addiction. Doing an SE and opening accounts shows they are not serious about getting their issues under control.

If not then they should do a Take-A-Break and stay away from SE's. It just asking for trouble.
 

colinsunderland

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Thats not how gambling problems/addictions work though Harry. If the system picked up on registration, it would stop a lot of re-registrations, The onus is on the casino to prevent a problem gambler gambling, not the other way round.

If a coke addict told his dealer not to supply him as he wanted to come off it, then next day the dealers brother (who knew all about what had happened) popped round and said, hey, start buying from me, buy your first bag and I'll give you 100% free, I think most people would say the brother tempted him back.
 

robby811

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but there are a lot coke addicted outhere :D

48682115-15077674696499224.jpg
 

Harry_BKK

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Thats not how gambling problems/addictions work though Harry. If the system picked up on registration, it would stop a lot of re-registrations, The onus is on the casino to prevent a problem gambler gambling, not the other way round.

If a coke addict told his dealer not to supply him as he wanted to come off it, then next day the dealers brother (who knew all about what had happened) popped round and said, hey, start buying from me, buy your first bag and I'll give you 100% free, I think most people would say the brother tempted him back.

I know Colin.

But all I read in the various threads are people doing it all the time and I am sure many if not most know very well what they are doing.

Why SE in the first place, if you are not serious about getting your gambling under control?????????

The onus is not just on the casino. We are talking about adult people here, not kids with temper tantrums. IMO, a SE is something like an admission that you have a gambling problem. As with any diet where the food is just one part to lose weight and stay slimmer, executing an SE can only be a part of the solution. Easy to blame casinos all the time. :rolleyes:

Would love to hear what all the OPs posting on CM with a SE issue are actively doing to curb their addiction other than doing an SE. Most just open a new account somewhere else, don't they?

To my recollection, I very rarely read something like: "I did the SE AND gave up control of my finances to my spouse/partner/parent/friend, I installed Gamblock on my devices, I started going to AG meetings etc. because I want to get my gambling under control."

Most posts are looking purely for tips how to get a refund of the lost deposits, isn't it? :rolleyes: I just don't buy these types of comments anymore: "i didn't know they were in the same group", "they should have blocked me, can I have my money back", "I SE'ed to control my gambling but opened another account in a moment of madness/frustration/add as you please" etc. You want to be serious about getting control of your addiction, THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
 
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dunover

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I know Colin.

But all I read in the various threads are people doing it all the time and I am sure many if not most know very well what they are doing.

Why SE in the first place, if you are not serious about getting your gambling under control?????????

The onus is not just on the casino. We are talking about adult people here, not kids with temper tantrums. IMO, a SE is something like an admission that you have a gambling problem. As with any diet where the food is just one part to lose weight and stay slimmer, executing an SE can only be a part of the solution. Easy to blame casinos all the time. :rolleyes:

Would love to hear what all the OPs posting on CM with a SE issue are actively doing to curb their addiction other than doing an SE. Most just open a new account somewhere else, don't they?

To my recollection, I very rarely read something like: "I did the SE AND gave up control of my finances to my spouse/partner/parent/friend, I installed Gamblock on my devices, I started going to AG meetings etc. because I want to get my gambling under control."

Most posts are looking purely for tips how to get a refund of the lost deposits, isn't it? :rolleyes: I just don't buy these types of comments anymore: "i didn't know they were in the same group", "they should have blocked me, can I have my money back", "I SE'ed to control my gambling but opened another account in a moment of madness/frustration/add as you please" etc. You want to be serious about getting control of your addiction, THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

Yes, but if we go back to fundamentals, the system is broken as it lacks one major stipulation (already in place at many casinos/licensees especially the big bookies). There is still NO requirement for the master licence holder to ensure that they are responsible for ALL properties/white labels under that license to list co-licensees within their terms and secondly cross-reference players across their licence.

While this prevails you're going to see casinos abusing the rules (EMSEB for example with no-lose bets for the casino) and then players trying it on too.

Wholly unsatisfactory all round, agreed, but the regulator bears a fair bit of responsibility for this situation.

P.S. You've also got inexperienced players who are NOT addicted in any way who may SE for other reasons - I know because I did it myself in my naïve days, for example using SE when I had had a big win as my way of saying you'll not ever get it back (before the days of all these DL tools we now have) or conversely a 'rage quit' after a shocking session. As I said, nowadays this shouldn't be necessary with TAB/DL etc. but not so long ago it was a valid option.

So yeah, SE is likely to indicate gambling issues, but not necessarily.
 
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Supababe

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I agree with Harry on many things.
It’s time the whole human race took accountability for their actions.
We are each responsible for our own choices and, whilst addiction of whatever form can affect this choice, it doesn’t negate the fact that choices have consequences. Cause and effect.

To put gambling and SE into a different context....

I grew up in relative poverty. My Dad was a heavy drinker, he knew he had a problem and ‘tried’ unsuccessfully to cut down/stop a few times.
The landlords of the pubs he frequented were surely aware of his drinking problems. I’m pretty sure my mum is likely to have pleaded at times for them not to serve him.
Would it be reasonable for me to blame the pub owners/ brewery companies and claim back the money that he passed over the bar throughout the years? No that is a ludicrous suggestion.
 

dunover

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I agree with Harry on many things.
It’s time the whole human race took accountability for their actions.
We are each responsible for our own choices and, whilst addiction of whatever form can affect this choice, it doesn’t negate the fact that choices have consequences. Cause and effect.

To put gambling and SE into a different context....

I grew up in relative poverty. My Dad was a heavy drinker, he knew he had a problem and ‘tried’ unsuccessfully to cut down/stop a few times.
The landlords of the pubs he frequented were surely aware of his drinking problems. I’m pretty sure my mum is likely to have pleaded at times for them not to serve him.
Would it be reasonable for me to blame the pub owners/ brewery companies and claim back the money that he passed over the bar throughout the years? No that is a ludicrous suggestion.

Yes, it would be ludicrous unless there was a regulatory framework in place which required the vendor to withhold supply once a problem had been reported.
 

Supababe

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Yes, it would be ludicrous unless there was a regulatory framework in place which required the vendor to withhold supply once a problem had been reported.

When I worked behind a bar we weren’t supposed to serve anyone intoxiccated. Not sure if it was a local rule or part of the licensing laws...
 

colinsunderland

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I know Colin.

But all I read in the various threads are people doing it all the time and I am sure many if not most know very well what they are doing.

Why SE in the first place, if you are not serious about getting your gambling under control?????????

The onus is not just on the casino. We are talking about adult people here, not kids with temper tantrums. IMO, a SE is something like an admission that you have a gambling problem. As with any diet where the food is just one part to lose weight and stay slimmer, executing an SE can only be a part of the solution. Easy to blame casinos all the time. :rolleyes:

Would love to hear what all the OPs posting on CM with a SE issue are actively doing to curb their addiction other than doing an SE. Most just open a new account somewhere else, don't they?

To my recollection, I very rarely read something like: "I did the SE AND gave up control of my finances to my spouse/partner/parent/friend, I installed Gamblock on my devices, I started going to AG meetings etc. because I want to get my gambling under control."

Most posts are looking purely for tips how to get a refund of the lost deposits, isn't it? :rolleyes: I just don't buy these types of comments anymore: "i didn't know they were in the same group", "they should have blocked me, can I have my money back", "I SE'ed to control my gambling but opened another account in a moment of madness/frustration/add as you please" etc. You want to be serious about getting control of your addiction, THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

I agree with Harry on many things.
It’s time the whole human race took accountability for their actions.
We are each responsible for our own choices and, whilst addiction of whatever form can affect this choice, it doesn’t negate the fact that choices have consequences. Cause and effect.

To put gambling and SE into a different context....

I grew up in relative poverty. My Dad was a heavy drinker, he knew he had a problem and ‘tried’ unsuccessfully to cut down/stop a few times.
The landlords of the pubs he frequented were surely aware of his drinking problems. I’m pretty sure my mum is likely to have pleaded at times for them not to serve him.
Would it be reasonable for me to blame the pub owners/ brewery companies and claim back the money that he passed over the bar throughout the years? No that is a ludicrous suggestion.

Thats different though. The pub landlords didn't have a legal requirement to refuse service to him. Thats how gambling differs to most other things. Of course people should take responsibility for their actions, and yes, people try it on, however, they don't have a legal responsibility to do so, the casinos do.

One or two lines of code is all it should take to check a new account against the licenses SE list on registration and/or deposit. They manage to do it on withdrawal so can certainly do it at an earlier point. The casinos don't do it simply because, they know a problem gambler is likely to lose a lot before doing a withdrawal, which they can then refuse. It is a no lose for the casino, they will 100% refuse a withdrawal, yet rarely will refund deposits.

Yes players try to defraud casinos, and I'm sure a high percentage of people posting about it are attempting to defraud them, but not all are. Any other business will attempt to negate fraud as much as possible. Casinos can, when registration is submitted, check fields Surname, postcode, date of birth, payment card etc against the SE list for the license holder/group of companies, and if 2 fields match, instantly suspend the account until it is manually checked. Most casinos don't do that though, the ONLY reason they would keep allowing attempted fraud, is because they are making more money from the SE'd customers who, when caught, don't get their money back. Further than that, there is clear precedent from the UKGC that in cases like this, deposits should be refunded, yet, again, most casinos refuse, again, because they are fully aware that 99% of cases won't get to the UKGC and therefore they will never be forced to refund.

The casinos, in a lot of cases, are solely to blame for attempts at defrauding them. Yes the customers doing so should have some sort of penalty, but even then, that shouldn't be up to the casino to decide. If a customer changes some details to get round a SE then deposits could be donated to charity, if a customer has not changed any details, just signed up to another site within the group, then deposits should be returned to the customer.

At the very very least, when you go to self exclude, there should be a pop up at some point saying 'When you self exclude from us, you are also automatically excluded from all sites within our group, at this current time, these are xx,xx,xx,xx etc. Our license is located here (link), if you are opening an account before your self exclusion has been removed, please check the link to ensure the casino you are opening an account with is not listed. If you manage to circumvent our checks then this will void all bets, and you will not be paid any winnings. This information will also be emailed to you for future help'. Any casino rep is welcome to chime in with the reasons you don't do this?

But then, you know, the casinos would lose revenue, so thats unlikely to happen in the near future.
 
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greylady

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I do understand where people are coming from but addiction is a sickness, a brain disorder, that needs treatment like any other. When people are looking for that brain stimuli that comes from be it gambling, drugs, smoking etc, people will do almost anything to get their fix, they can't help themselves so to me I find it a bit harsh when people are critical of them when they have no control over how they feel.

People can use addiction to remove themselves from the 'real world', it is like self medicating to some - maybe I am just more tolerant and less judgemental of people :)
 

Tirilej

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I do understand where people are coming from but addiction is a sickness, a brain disorder, that needs treatment like any other. When people are looking for that brain stimuli that comes from be it gambling, drugs, smoking etc, people will do almost anything to get their fix, they can't help themselves so to me I find it a bit harsh when people are critical of them when they have no control over how they feel.

People can use addiction to remove themselves from the 'real world', it is like self medicating to some - maybe I am just more tolerant and less judgemental of people :)

There are a lot of sick people out there, and a lot of addicts, not just gamblers. Are you feeling the same thing with those that are using drugs or alcohol? They can't help themselves:eek2:

I feel sorry for the relatives to the addict, not the addict himself. He needs to take responsibility for his own actions and ask for help. Then he gets my respect.
That does not mean I don't see them as humans or don't care about them.
 

greylady

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There are a lot of sick people out there, and a lot of addicts, not just gamblers. Are you feeling the same thing with those that are using drugs or alcohol? They can't help themselves:eek2:

I feel sorry for the relatives to the addict, not the addict himself. He needs to take responsibility for his own actions and ask for help. Then he gets my respect.
That does not mean I don't see them as humans or don't care about them.

I used to work for an addiction service and it opened my eyes, it's not the same for everyone, but people drank/took drugs to self medicate to blot out memories of rape/violence/losing their child, a multitude of reasons and yes they were all there to seek help with their addiction but if it taught me anything it was to look at the person and not the addiction as do any of us know what has gone on in their lives?
 
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