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Watch Out Players.. questions about Dark Knight Rises

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by HIGHIQ, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. HIGHIQ

    HIGHIQ Banned User : misrepresentation and PAB abuse PABnoaccred2 PABnoaccred

    Hello everyone,

    as last week a casinogroup told me they are holding my money becos there is an error on the dark knight rises.. as i have experienced my self that it was perfect and no error to me and the pays where correct..

    as they told me the error exist in the freespin mode which i had also not seen.. and they told me the error has been fixed on the sunday 8th.


    BUT at after sunday i kept playing this slot elsewhere and i saw that the indeed was running same but the freespins payout are wrong... as i see till today wednesday that everywhere the game has been updated with this error ... i will show here u under the following error that was found .. i have also video proof which if necessary will upload it... pIZ4NF_-t9iAWb8a6xVA error darkknight.jpg 1kH5X1iq8_qfo37vmCeG error darkknight2.jpg paytable.jpg


    as u can see iam spinning this game on 3 usd bet.. coins 5 and coinsize 2

    also u can see i have multiplier 3 which u can see under at the picture... now as u can see the pay at normal basic game is 15 usd for 5 kind of aces so it means in the freespin feature it should be 15x3 and i had double split too lets eave that out for now as it should double my pay again.. which actual should be 90 usd per line 5 kind of aces...wi ould u players to take a close look at this and see it for yourself.. i have complaint this at the casino where it happend and other casinos.. .. from one they telling me the pay is correct... then i should ask them can they explain this please... hpvmNnBi4FgWppiB7bZt multiplier.png
     
  2. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Didn't you have pretty much the same issues with Battlestar Galactica previously I.e. concerning split wilds etc.?

    Odd that nobody else seems to be having these problems.

    What EXACTLY did the casino say? Are the taking back your winnings? Reducing them,?

    TBH your post is very hard to follow....and what's with the post title ALL IN CAPS? If it's to make your thread stand out by shouting, then it's quite rude and unnecessary.
     
  3. HIGHIQ

    HIGHIQ Banned User : misrepresentation and PAB abuse PABnoaccred2 PABnoaccred

    hi nifty.. sorry for caps ...as u can see above im spinning 3 usd bet as in paytable pays basic game already 15 usd in freespin mode i have a multiplier 3 which it says it paid me 2612 coins per 5 of kind of aces.. as i have learned this is should be 15x3 leave that double split for now ... pls take a close look and attention ...
     
  4. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    2612 x .02 = $52.24......= which is MORE than 3x15 = $45

    Looks right to me....actually it seems to have paid more...maybe that's the error?

    You didn't answer my other questions..
    .they are important.
     
  5. BigBetting123

    BigBetting123 Dormant account

    Did you place 3 usd bets during your entire session? Meaning, did you "collect" all free spins, up until the feature trigered, while betting exactly 3 usd? Or did you perhaps collect some of the free spins on a lower bet amount?

    The upgrade/fix to the game seems to be that winnings in free spins are now based on the average bet while collecting these same free spins. For example, If you collect half of the free spins on 1.5 usd bets and half on 3 usd bets, your wins in the free spins would be based on the average bet = 2.25 usd. It is also clearly stated in the paytable like this: "All wins within the feature will be multiplied by a weighted average bet".

    This could very well explain your concern and it also seems like a probably explanation to why your line (ways) win amounts are very weird looking numbers like 2612 and 1306.
     
    7 people like this.
  6. HIGHIQ

    HIGHIQ Banned User : misrepresentation and PAB abuse PABnoaccred2 PABnoaccred

    i played this slot starting bet..which 1.20 usd bet took 100 quickly went up to 1.50 and then 3usd .lost around 400 before i hit freespins..as i know MGs slot any slot has almost multiplier in the freespins ..are u saying they are all weighted? as i never saw on other slot or experienced myself..i see the paytable and the multiplier that is what it looked right to me..if it is weighted my own bets.. how im gonna win money then ?

    if they had changed the paytable based on the average bets then i have to say they are right.. but this case i cant say they are right...as some slots like hot ink where u can respin the same spin and u can see the amount it gonna cost to respin it.. then i can choose how to play... now i raise bet or reduce bets i have no clue what iam gonna win when i hit freespin which makes it very confusing..
     
  7. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    They can't allow players to change their bet size when they collect things without any consequence otherwise people would just spin at minimum bet then start to play max bet when the multiplier and number of free spins is high. It wouldn't make sense.

    In some games you cannot change your bet without losing what you've collected (for example, the whole "Untamed" series) while in other games (like Tomb Raider II), the final bonus that you get when you collect all the books is weighted according to your average bet during your collecting session.
     
  8. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    FTR, it appears that it was indeed a glitch and some people took advantage of it early on, as evidenced here:

    With that said, I don't think that they should confiscate your winnings. Please answer Nifty's question (about the reply from the casino).
     
  9. HIGHIQ

    HIGHIQ Banned User : misrepresentation and PAB abuse PABnoaccred2 PABnoaccred

    i have a pab goin i dont know i can say more about it.. all i have said what they gonna do it has happend...
     
  10. Igor82

    Igor82 Accredited Casino Representative

    I'm fairly certain that the game does not pay the multiplier & free spins on the coin size that triggered them, rather on the bet size average as some other MGS slots do (i imagine this is modelled after Tomb Raider II seeing that your free spins continue regardless of your bet), so if you did not spin £3 through, that would explain the discrepancy.
     
    3 people like this.
  11. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    This was the major screwup. Microgaming launched the game with a glitch so that the free spins played at the triggering bet. This is why the casino is seeking to void the OPs winnings from the slot on the grounds of "malfunction voids play". The glitch was live for about a week it seems, as the OP has been told it was fixed on the 8th.

    What the OP is seeing now is actually CORRECT, it doesn't tally with their earlier play as this was subject to the glitch.

    I spotted this a day or two after launch, and a few other members also spotted the inconsistency, but presumed that it had been dealt with by making the outcome of the free spins themselves non random, something like the AWP outcomes. This idea that the free spins or the fight sequences were compensated to account for changes of bet actually put many off trying the game, but clearly not everybody.

    As it turned out, there was nothing underhand going on, the spins and fights were all random, it was a screwup by MGS to use the triggering bet rather than the weighted average as they do in the other games of a similar nature.

    The confusion is down to Microgaming telling some operators there is no glitch, but confirming it to others, who then have valid grounds for voiding free spin payouts where bets were changed.

    A consequence of the glitch is that players could also have LOST due to lowering their bets before triggering the free spins, but I suspect the overwhelming majority were playing and changing bets because they were trying out the game to see if it really was a true advantage play, or merely a mistake on a help file page.

    Nothing has been said as to how the glitch came to light, but if it was due to MGS finding it AFTER launch, it's not good enough as they should have been running the tests BEFORE launch in order to protect their licensees, if not to ensure the reputation of the software among players is maintained.

    However, if there is a PAB in progress, both the earlier incident and this current "error" should both be explained, as they are connected.

    Unfortunately, the player is unlikely to be paid, as it looks like a genuine case of malfunction. It will be an embarrassment to MGS though, as it is such a bad glitch that the casinos are not prepared to absorb the costs themselves in order to keep the issue out of the spotlight, even though it was only live for a week, which should have limited their exposure.

    I suspect that casinos have been hit far harder than they are prepared to admit, as this was still about a week between the discussions about the possibility of a glitch, and the fix. If they let it go and pay one player, they will have to pay them all. If the PAB results in payment for the OP, Max could get rather busy over the next few weeks.
     
    4 people like this.
  12. Patriot66

    Patriot66 Experienced Member MM

    Wow is all I can say.

    If this marquee game has been released with such an obvious flaw then it has to shake confidence in Microgaming.

    The biggest slot release of the year is pushed out to their customers after (presumably) thousands and thousands of hours testing with, what looks like, a basic way to beat it.

    Even after the payouts appear to have been updated, I imagine it will have to be pulled across the board to update the instructions on the pay table and maybe to include an "average stake used" graphic somewhere on the screen.

    Not a huge fan of the slot anyway as it isn't truly random e.g:

    1. The accruing of free spins / multipliers is heavily weighted to the start of each free spins cycle
    2. Multipliers (in my experience) are only added towards the end of each free spin cycle
    3. Free spins are rarely triggered with low free spin / multiplier totals

    Even now this "glitch" is fixed, it still seems sensible to get the first 10 feature triggers on min stake just to unlock the "better" features.

    I can't remember a win over 50x on either of the basic feature options.

    Really interested in how this issue pans out.
     
    4 people like this.
  13. lotusch

    lotusch Meister Member webby PABaccred mm2

    Well even with the glitch in place I managed to have a big losing streak on the first 2 days of the launch of this game.
    I also found out quickly that I could do €0.30 spins and let freespins and multiplier build up and then switch to €1.50 or even higher stake spins but I did not find that very comforting.

    First of all you never know when freespins are triggered so playing on low stakes too long would mean it could trigger them before you raise your stake.
    Second of all even if you had built up let's say 40 spins x 4 mulitplier on 30 cent bets,then raising to 3 euro bets,it could still cost you loads of money before triggering the spins as sometimes it took 600-700 spins or more for me to trigger them.
    AND if they were triggered on 3 euro you could still end up with crappy pays meaning the risk to only increase bets for the sake of the freespins doesnt make sense to me.
    So this "glitch" did no good to me on the end and now they have fixed it I won't even play it at all anymore because to play this slot with higher bets,knowing building up free spins and multipliers takes ages it will cost you dearly before hitting something decent.


    I stick to IR,TFROL,TSII and Burning Desire,all very trustworthy to me and at least I know what to expect from those slots.
    I had some long streaks with nothing but on the end of they they never dissapointed me and came back with an awesome win.

    This new DK slot,meh I never liked it from day one and I am glad overall I ended up even or a few Euro's in the plus. ;)
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Igor82

    Igor82 Accredited Casino Representative

    Again, you assume so (too) much. I itch to quote some things Casinos are privy to and players aren't but alas, i would be breaching confidentiality toward my suppliers. As I said, I'm "fairly certain" and by that please read "dead on confident due to direct feedback in early days" that the game did not in fact change it's model after a live launch, overnight.

    let's consider this for a second: MGS, a test house giant, develops and launches the game in 3 stages, passing thought numerous QA protocols and bazillion spins before launching it live across circa 500 providers, each one with their own integrations, game launch links and set-ups to various platforms (Viper and not) which goes through all the licencing of source code, third party certifications, third party testing houses, large and small provider exposure testing, and really - an absolute nightmare of bureaucratic process, just so you can have a safe experience, not to mention branding conditions and those agreements which while not directly influencing, will hurt MGS if they mess up in respect of future branding contracts....

    so now after all above, 5 days after launch, some dude goes "ooops!! source code was abusable - f-it lets just swap this over right now in a jiffy, change the algorithms, re-assign everything and plug it to 500 operators overnight and none's the wiser... i just hope VWM doesnt catch on to us because in such case we're seriously doomed."

    If you feel my tone is too tongue in cheek and overly sarcastic, it is becuase blanket statements such as these that hold NO ACTUAL PROOF, FACTUAL ANALISYS or ANY EVIDENCE just damage the average user, damage MGS, damage trust in operators and when a non member of a new member see the all-mighty VWM with all his reputation points, they may very well take it at face value. And the value? absolute nill.

    IF there is a glitch, you can rest damned assured that MGS will retract the game (as it happened before), retest the source code and go through a hefty PR nightmare because they answer to more regulation and scrutiny than the pope.

    Moreover, and more relevant to this topic, you are taking away from HIGHIQ chances, if legit, to really look into the casino, their proof, their statement and a fair chance at their winnings. Your reply's aren't helpful - they are guesswork and confusing to the topic at hand - which is: Is this casino truthful or not, and if yes - then they need to PROVE IT. At which point, IF it happens, I'll apologise and MGS will have substantial answers to provide and terrible downfall in their credibility, but that IF needs to happen first.
     
    10 people like this.
  15. lotusch

    lotusch Meister Member webby PABaccred mm2

    I have to say I have found an annoying occurance on MG slots as well.
    1st time I thought it was just a mistake on servers from MG.
    First this occured to me at Redbet,never really got a satisfactory answer from MG about that.
    But I had it on Bet-at and yesterday on Guts too,the MG slots start to lag very badly,all of a sudden my balance shoots up to around €1600 and next spin it goes into error 2 code.
    When back in the game the balance is reverted to the normal balance.
    So a defo balance glitch,I havent e-mailed Bet-at or Guts about it because out of experience with the Redbet case MG will just say that it is not on their end and no software error.
    So basicly they say to f*ck off.

    Redbet compensated me more then sufficient with a few €50-€100 wthdrawable no WR comps so fair play to them. :thumbsup:
    But I never got a straight answer from MG what the story is with this issue although I e-mailed them directly.
    And that annoys me as on the end of the day I put a lot of money in their slots,their products!

    I get regularly error 2 codes with MG slots anyway,no matter what casino I play.

    Nevertheless MG remains one of my favourite slots providers and platform to play on.
     
  16. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    This does not explain why the OP was told that it was Microgaming that confirmed a glitch had been found.

    The OP has in fact shown evidence that the payouts in free spins are now weighted, rather than paid at the triggering bet.

    Players may not be privy to much, but we ARE privy to our own Playcheck logs.

    I actually played the game, and saw the glitch in action. My free spins were getting paid on the basis of the triggering bet, not any kind of weighted average.

    If the "glitch" is only the wording in the paytable, and not the mechanics, it seems odd that this casino is using "malfunction voids play" as the reason to void winnings. It's not the kind of "cover story" usually seen when a casino is dealing with a possible fraudster, and seeking to offer a vague explanation whilst they conduct their investigation.
     
  17. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    again...where EVER did the op say that MG SAID there was a glitch or confirmed anything of the sort??,,he said the CASINO called it a glitch
    this is now TWO threads on the same subject youve misquoted the op to insert your own opinion as fact
     
    2 people like this.
  18. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Here's my "opinion".

    Do the maths.

    This was triggered from a £12 bet, but I had slowly built the free spins by starting at £1.50, and increasing the bet every time I hit the fight sequence.

    This free spin payout has been calculated by using the £12 triggering bet and the multiplier, rather than an average weighted bet.

    The reason these glitches can be so damaging is that everyone (except a few APs) are in denial. This could have lasted for months, but I suspect something began to arouse suspicions, and this triggered an audit.

    I discovered this a couple of days after launch, and decided that the next time a casino offered a big wager challenge promo, I would give this a full blown "field trial". I would most likely NOT have tried to withdraw 20K, but swapped games so that I could earn points towards the scoreboard, and then switched back to the Dark Knight to refill the bankroll.

    It's well known that audits almost always take place upon withdrawals, and rarely during play, and that with no actual withdrawal, there would be little to make any operator think of auditing play on one particular slot among many in a "bust out" session.
     

    Attached Files:

    2 people like this.
  19. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred mm3 webmeister

    The casino would HAVE to call it a 'glitch' regardless, thus invoking the ubiquitous and general 'malfunction voids pays' clauses. It appears TDK had a hrrmphhh...ermmmmm.....humptier (cough).
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Igor82

    Igor82 Accredited Casino Representative

    It amazes me that after years of gaming experience you still think deploying a game onto a market takes about the same effort as installing ms paint. No further comments from me on this topic :)
     

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