Virtual Ted??

virtualted

No longer working for Virtual
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Location
Costa Rica
Funny as this may sound, I want you to argue. Before I got involved on this side of the line, I am and will be a gambler. Anything that can be done to reform or standardize inter net gaming I am all for. From my side I see a lot of player abuse and when I first got here I saw a lot of casino abuse. All I really know of the business is through this Casino, and through RTG, software. I can only hypothesize about other casinos and such. Someone said earlier on the thread about degenerate gamblers, and I have to tell you that there is a larger number than most will admit or even dream of, but what should be done? That is the kind of questions I really wish I had answers to. Thanks
 

555YY

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Location
PA
best part of playing at virtual is sometimes you have to play to lose :D

the first time after i cashed out i still had like some money left over b/c i withdrew my max. so then i asked support if i can redeposit, they said i'm not allowed to until i used up the funds in my account :lolup:

i asked them to take it away, they said you have to play with it. i asked if i win can i cash out, they replied no :thumbsup:

so i had to basically play to lose, went to roulette, bet it all on a single-number... and won!! :lolup:

so i spent the next half-hour trying to lose all my money :notworthy :notworthy
 

jinnia

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
Bite, ME
virtualted said:
I can not speak for any software except RTG, and all I can say from the casino operator end it is nit rigged or manipulated.

Rigged is a word that got picked up on, manipulated is more exact. A question...

Don't RTG give the tools/codes to the casino operators to set their own payouts..etc and only the managers are allowed to do this?

I was told that, so I'm just asking.
 

amandajm

Dormant Account
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Location
London
bethug said:
joely, in vegas you have to read, the table limit, you can pick your cell phone up, one time counting cards they told me i cant go from 10 to 100.

Joely they giving you money to play with, they should have terms, even the california lotto have terms, credit card have terms, the note on your house have terms, free govement cheeze have terms.

People do open multi accounts, and they get busted and they need to be exposed.

joely do you even play?

Yip, I know these things. Confusing or unrealistic terms are everywhere one looks. If the terms suck imo then they suck imo.

No Damian, I never gamble.. Never have and never will lol..

I thought I was in the virtual yoghurt knitting forum..
 

virtualted

No longer working for Virtual
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Location
Costa Rica
Jinnia,
We have no control over excpectation on the games. What we do have are on Video poker 3 pay tables to set the game to. This has no bearing on what hands are hit or dealt. It does mean the difference between getting paid like 400 coins or 350 for a straight flush, which is offset by getting like 20 -25 for a flush. Basically off set a larger payout item for more smaller payouts. On slots we can set the machine in basically the same way. Every machine is different, but can change the % from like 97% to 94%. This is no different than Vegas casinos setting certain machines near entrances and buffet lines to pay at a higher % than a bank of machines in the middle of casino. We have no control over frequency of payouts though.
 

jinnia

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
Bite, ME
virtualted said:
Jinnia,
On slots we can set the machine in basically the same way. Every machine is different, but can change the % from like 97% to 94%. We have no control over frequency of payouts though.

If you can set slots from 97% to 94% (of which in my opinion they are set a lot lower), does that not mean it affects the frequency of payouts? At 94% it's going to payout less frequent than at 97%. Or is it they pay out lower amounts?

RTG slots played very well in my opinion until this last February, then they seem to have gone way down in payouts, even in getting one coin in return after playing 200. And I also noticed the progressive slots rolls backwards, -example-, I can play the Bonkers game and when I log out, it shows $140, when I log in the next day, it's rolled backwards, amount now shows $125/30, this is also seen just by exiting a progressive slot and re-entering it just a few minutes later. Why are they set to do that? I asked another RTG casino about that and was told that's acceptable, same thing happens in Vegas.

I've never been to Vegas so I have no idea how they program their slots, but I have 'never' seen that happen at any land casino I do travel to for play, nor at any other online casino that's powered by a different software.

If a progressive hits and payouts at $230, just how much money has been sunk into it before paying? 5, 10 thousand?? Can you, or, will you give a ballpark figure on that?
 

virtualted

No longer working for Virtual
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Location
Costa Rica
Jinnia,
I know you have your beliefs, but if you are asking a question than I will give you the answer. Since you brought up "Bonkers" I will give you how it is configured as of this morning.
coin % Jackpot Jackpot reset amount
.05 94 117 60
.25 97 702 300
.50 94 1541 600
1.00 94 2746 1200
5.00 97 6794 6000
The Jackpot never goes down unless it was hit and reset. We can not change the reset amount or how much the Jackpot gets too. That is why on a game like Super Diamond Mine the 1.00 coin Jackpot is 227,000. if it hits it will reset for 10,000. So actually if you play for the Jackpot this is over 100% payout. The reason the Jackpot is so out of line is that the winning combination has been hit 4 times over the last couple of months by players not playing Max coins. So since they hit the sequence the random counter on it resets, even though the Jackpot is not paid.
I am willing to bet that pretty much other softwares are set up the same way, but have no idea.
As far as what has been put in the slot you need to remember that when the slot is turned on there is all ready the jackpot, so when the new money goes in only a portion of that bet goes towards the jackpot. I do not have the actual %'s.
Jinnia I hope this helps you out. I am not trying to change your beliefs I am just telling you what it is on this side of the machine.
It's funny that we look at eact numbers sometime that we totally forget about the luck and fun factor. I think if everyone took Casinomeisters advice on the games we would have a lot more happy winners. My last time in Vegas I was playing Blackjack where the setup was terrible, I said to my friend, the house odds here are stagering. I said no one can win. So I sat down and proceded to lose my entire buy in, the whole time saying "I knew I could not win here". Like players who think that a switch is turned on or off, depending on their bet. When you start believing these things it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.
 

jinnia

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
Bite, ME
virtualted said:
Jinnia,
I know you have your beliefs, but if you are asking a question than I will give you the answer. Since you brought up "Bonkers" I will give you how it is configured as of this morning.
coin % Jackpot Jackpot reset amount
.05 94 117 60
.25 97 702 300
.50 94 1541 600
1.00 94 2746 1200
5.00 97 6794 6000
Maybe at your casino they hit that low, but not at the few I play at, progressives are set to hit way too high, in my opinion. A normal jackpot hit on a slot (not a progressive) pays (example) $150, but on that same game that is a progressive, it go up from 800 to $1400 before a hit happens. Example; Diamond Deluxe pays at a non-progressive machine at $150, but on a progressive one, it can go over $1400, and that's on the nickel machine. Lowest I've seen it hit was $300, which is acceptable.

virtualted said:
The Jackpot never goes down unless it was hit and reset.
Not true at all. I play slots and slots only, (tried blackjack recently..ridiculous!) and play them one heck of a lot, I SEE this happen at every RTG casino I play at. I've even e-mailed the casino(s) about it and was told that they do that and as long as it stays within a $15 rollback, that's acceptable, but to inform them if it rolls back more than that.
virtualted said:
We can not change the reset amount or how much the Jackpot gets too. That is why on a game like Super Diamond Mine the 1.00 coin Jackpot is 227,000. if it hits it will reset for 10,000. So actually if you play for the Jackpot this is over 100% payout.
Ok, with that statement I now understand what is meant by the percentage payouts.
virtualted said:
The reason the Jackpot is so out of line is that the winning combination has been hit 4 times over the last couple of months by players not playing Max coins. So since they hit the sequence the random counter on it resets, even though the Jackpot is not paid.
If the jackpot is hit with only one or two coins, they only get paid the normal jackpot, not the progressive.

Shouldn't the max coin hit be seperately set from hitting with only one or two coins? That would seem only more fair.
virtualted said:
I am willing to bet that pretty much other softwares are set up the same way, but have no idea.
They may be, but I have not seen it at any other than the RTG powered casinos.

virtualted said:
As far as what has been put in the slot you need to remember that when the slot is turned on there is all ready the jackpot, so when the new money goes in only a portion of that bet goes towards the jackpot. I do not have the actual %'s.
Understandable about only a percentage goes toward the jackpot, a business needs to make a profit.

virtualted said:
Jinnia I hope this helps you out. I am not trying to change your beliefs I am just telling you what it is on this side of the machine.
Granted, some are only beliefs, but some are due to seeing and 'knowing' what I see and experience frequently! And no, not just a run of bad luck. Only online, I do great at land base. That's the reason I'll blow a bit online just to kill a few minutes when bored, but I do my serious gambling at land based casinos, 'certain' land based casinos.

virtualted said:
It's funny that we look at eact numbers sometime that we totally forget about the luck and fun factor. I think if everyone took Casinomeisters advice on the games we would have a lot more happy winners. My last time in Vegas I was playing Blackjack where the setup was terrible, I said to my friend, the house odds here are stagering. I said no one can win. So I sat down and proceded to lose my entire buy in, the whole time saying "I knew I could not win here". Like players who think that a switch is turned on or off, depending on their bet. When you start believing these things it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.
Oh yes, luck and PLENTY of it does it take (along with a thick wallet), to even get a few minutes of just 'play time'.

I'll leave with this which can be construed as it being said about a gambler AND the gambling business::

George Washington: "Gambling is the child of avarice (greed), the brother of iniquity and the father of mischief."

Thomas Jefferson: "Gambling corrupts our dispositions, and teaches us the habit of hostility against mankind."

Benjamin Franklin: "Keep flax from fire, youth from gambling."

Statesmen and leaders such as these cannot be brushed aside as unimportant. They were concerned about the orderly moral development of our nation. They felt that gambling would be a HINDRANCE to such.

Columbia Encyclopedia says,
"Gambling flourishes in the United States usually under the control of a criminal element, and with the blessings of corrupt police officials."

Everyone will draw their own meaning into the statements above!
 

virtualted

No longer working for Virtual
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Location
Costa Rica
I'll leave with this which can be construed as it being said about a gambler AND the gambling business::
George Washington: "Gambling is the child of avarice (greed), the brother of iniquity and the father of mischief."
Thomas Jefferson: "Gambling corrupts our dispositions, and teaches us the habit of hostility against mankind."
Benjamin Franklin: "Keep flax from fire, youth from gambling."

Statesmen and leaders such as these cannot be brushed aside as unimportant. They were concerned about the orderly moral development of our nation. They felt that gambling would be a HINDRANCE to such.

Columbia Encyclopedia says,
"Gambling flourishes in the United States usually under the control of a criminal element, and with the blessings of corrupt police officials."



Everyone will draw their own meaning into the statements above![/QUOTE]

Well I don't know what the odds are at the lottery, but I am sure they are worse than slot machines.
I think this is also common knoweldge.

1700s: Many of our Founding Fathers played and sponsored lotteries. Some examples:

Benjamin Franklin used lotteries to finance cannons for the Revolutionary War.
John Hancock operated a lottery to rebuild historic Faneuil Hall in Boston.
George Washington operated a lottery to finance construction of the Mountain Road, which opened westward expansion from Virginia.
Thomas Jefferson, $80,000 in debt at the end of his life, used a lottery to dispose of the bulk of his property.
NASPL lottery timeline
 
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jinnia

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
Bite, ME
virtualted said:
Everyone will draw their own meaning into the statements above!

Well I don't know what the odds are at the lottery, but I am sure they are worse than slot machines.
I think this is also common knoweldge.

1700s: Many of our Founding Fathers played and sponsored lotteries. Some examples:

Benjamin Franklin used lotteries to finance cannons for the Revolutionary War.
John Hancock operated a lottery to rebuild historic Faneuil Hall in Boston.
George Washington operated a lottery to finance construction of the Mountain Road, which opened westward expansion from Virginia.
Thomas Jefferson, $80,000 in debt at the end of his life, used a lottery to dispose of the bulk of his property.
NASPL lottery timeline

It doesn't matter what form of gambling there was centuries ago compared to the forms of it now-a-day, gambling is gambling!

The 'greed' is also there, by the player and the gambling companies!

Deborah Green -jinnia -gap
 

jinnia

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
Bite, ME
virtualted said:
So its one of those "DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO" things?

Is your statement regarding my last post? Then explain. I have no idea as to how the 'do as I say, not as I do' remark goes along with my post.

Are you into the Christmas "Spirit" today??

But since you said it, dealing with the online casinos, that's the message that is put out to the players.
 

jinnia

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
Bite, ME
virtualted said:
So its one of those "DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO" things?

jinnia said:
Is your statement regarding my last post? Then explain. I have no idea as to how the 'do as I say, not as I do' remark goes along with my post.

Are you into the Christmas "Spirit" today??

But since you said it, dealing with the online casinos, that's the message that is put out to the players.

Ok, I got into the Christmas 'spirit', so I'm thinking a little straighter. Your statement was referring to what I posted of Washington, Jefferson..etc. and their statements on gambling.

So No, it's not 'Do As I Say, Not As I Do' for they did not say not to gamble, they were only stating how they felt about it and what it would lead to.

Deborah Green -jinnia -gap
 

linda7

Non-Gambler
Joined
Apr 12, 2002
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Slots on landbased vs. online

VTED, landbased casinos in Vegas, AC, etc. can not change the winning percentages without the consent of the Casino Control Commission. The only reason that machines placed by the doors, end of the aisles, near the buffet, etc. hit so often is because these machines get the most action. Not because they have a higher winning percentage set on the game. As for progressives, I play them all the time in Atlantic City. When the winning progressive sequence comes up, and max coins are NOT played, it does not reset the Jackpot to go higher. Each machine is constantly playing, whether someone is literally spinning it or not. If you are lucky enough to spin at the precise time that the JP sequence is set to hit, you win. Once the play button is hit, your wins or losses are already determined. The spinning of the reels is for entertainment only. As for your casino moving the percentage up and down at your own discretion is not honest, in my opinion. Also, allowing someone only 10% to be the maximum amount they can win is wrong in my eyes. I play all the time, and I am a degenerate gambler. Luckily, I can afford to be. However, I would never play at a casino with such sticky bonuses, (even tho I rarely take bonuses), capping how much I can win and then waiting a week to process a payout. To me, if a casino needs that much time to pay a player, they are on a short leash for cash. I only play with two casino groups, and when I win, I have my money in my hand within 48 hours.
 

amandajm

Dormant Account
Joined
Nov 5, 2001
Location
London
That is what I took it to mean too. Have found it hard to keep up..

Since when do special Jack "pots" get emptied before the special Jackpot is actually won.
 

lanidar

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 5, 2003
Location
Avenel, New Jersey
linda7
I only play with two casino groups, and when I win, I have my money in my hand within 48 hours.

Hi,
How are you?
Where have you been? It's been months since I've seen you online.
I was surprised and happy to see linda7 again. :D

Which two casino groups do you play?
I've started Intercasino again and I've been at Will Hill quite a bit.
Stanley Group no longer has a bonus, so, being the "Bonus Hunter" that I am, I stay away from that group.
But, these three all pay witin 24 - 48 hours.

Glad to see you're back. :)
 

jinnia

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
Bite, ME
linda7 said:
VTED, landbased casinos in Vegas, AC, etc. can not change the winning percentages without the consent of the Casino Control Commission.
With online gambling businesses Linda, the owner/managers would be considered the Casino Control Commissioners and with no laws to govern them, they do as they please.
linda7 said:
When the winning progressive sequence comes up, and max coins are NOT played, it does not reset the Jackpot to go higher.
That is correct Linda! I travel to Kansas City, Booneville, Mississippi, Oklahoma, several places to play at land based casinos, and I have hit the jackpot playing one or two coins and the progressive kept on going, it did not reset, I was only paid what that one or two coin play would pay out
linda7 said:
As for your casino moving the percentage up and down at your own discretion is not honest, in my opinion.
Completely agree with you on this!!
linda7 said:
Also, allowing someone only 10% to be the maximum amount they can win is wrong in my eyes.
Not to mention a high percentage wagering requirement.
linda7 said:
waiting a week to process a payout. To me, if a casino needs that much time to pay a player, they are on a short leash for cash.
Short on cash, or, the longer they leave the money in their bank, the more interest they make on it? And they do this for they are into 'math' instead of the gambling business. They don't gamble, they 'calculate'.
amandajm said:
That is what I took it to mean too. Have found it hard to keep up..

Since when do special Jack "pots" get emptied before the special Jackpot is actually won.
With this statement::
virtualted said:
The reason the Jackpot is so out of line is that the winning combination has been hit 4 times over the last couple of months by players not playing Max coins. So since they hit the sequence the random counter on it resets, even though the Jackpot is not paid.
That is what is being said. And it should NOT be programed that way.
 

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