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Virtual Casino Belong on Rogues List

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by 120sam, Feb 4, 2005.

    Feb 4, 2005
  1. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    VirtualCasino/Spin2Win

    Here's my account of recent experiences with VirtualCasino/Spin2Win/virtualted. Sorry it's rather long, but my therapist has advised me to write it all down. I've divided it into parts, so if you don't want to wade through all the detail just scroll down to "Part 4 My issues with virtualted".

    Part 1 Paying in, winning, withdrawal denied, being ignored.

    At You must register/login in order to see the link. the offer for Spin2Win casino is pay in $100, get $250 bonus. If you click on the link you go to Spin2Win, and if you then click on "promotions" you go to You must register/login in order to see the link. . Beneath the offer it says that the WR is 15x, although in the terms and conditions it says 20x. I paid in $100, got the bonus and wagered x20 ($7030) to avoid any misunderstandings. I finished on $515 and withdrew. I received an email about my withdrawal, and sent ID docs (scanned in passport) and their standard faxback form, filled in as requested.

    I then received an email from Mathew confirming that the documents I had sent were in order, but he also needed a Detailed Transaction Sheet (DTS) form. I replied that according to his earlier email a DTS was only necessary for credit card users, and that as I had used NETeller it didn't apply to me, but if he sent me a DTS I'd fill it in and return it anyway.

    I received no reply, so I took a screenshot of my account at Spin2Win, plus another filled in faxback form, and sent them to Mathew, saying that I hadn't received the DTS form, and that if he needed one please send it to me so I could fill it in and return it.

    My next email from Spin2Win read:

    " Your payout request has been denied because of one or more of the following reason(s):",

    1. No DTS form
    2. WR not met
    3. WR for "free chip" not met
    4. Amount requested is less than original deposit
    5. Faxback form not received

    The form was an entirely impersonal standard reply and gave me no clue as to which of the reasons applied to me, I didn't think any of them did.

    I replied to accounts as follows:

    I attach my correspondence with Mathew below, which shows that you have received all necessary documentation except the DTS. If you want me to sign a DTS then send me one, as I requested in my last email.

    This reply was greeted with silence, so I wrote to Mathew:

    Is this what you need? (attached word document). I haven't received a sheet from you to sign, so I can't return one! Didn't your first email say a DTS is only for credit cards? I use NETeller. If I need to sign anything else, please send me a copy of the document to sign.

    More silence. So I wrote again:

    I attach the faxback form (again). If there is anything you still need would you let me know specifically what it is? A list of 4 things it could be isn't much help, because I don't think any of them apply to me.

    More silence, so I tried to withdraw again. I received the standard impersonal annoying "5 reasons" denial email again.


    Part 2 Phone and Livechat

    Their livechat is supposed to be 24 hours. I tried it a few times, and either nobody came on to chat with me, or the livechat window just showed a message saying "send an email to ...".

    So I tried phoning the numbers on their website. They have a USA number, and International number and a UK number. The UK number didn't ring. The USA number and International number rang, but no-one picked up.

    I then came to Casinomeister and found an email link to virtualted, the Spin2Win/Virtual Casino representative. I sent an email, no reply.

    I phoned again and finally managed to get through, to an employee who confirmed that I had met WR and that she didnt know why my withdrawal had been denied. She said her manager wasn't there, and I couldnt talk to accounts, but I should try to withdraw again and this time it should work.

    I tried to withdraw again, got the standard impersonal annoying "5 reasons" denial email.

    I tried livechat again and this time someone came on, Pam. She said my emails weren't being ignored, they just hadn't answered them yet. She didn't know why my withdrawal was refused and her manager wasn't there, but he should be there in a few hours. I told her that if I didn't speak to someone who could give me some answers within the next 5 minutes I was going to pitch a bitch at casinomeister. I didn't get any answers within 5 minutes, so I closed livechat and went to casinomeister, 10 minutes later my bitch had been pitched.


    Part 3 virtualted Speaks

    About 5 seconds after I had pitched, my email "pinged", and there was an email from virtualted (I thought he was out of the office for the next few hours?). He said the withdrawal was denied because:

    1. I had only wagered 6680, not the required 7000.
    2. "We also did not receive your photo with the documents that were sent, to verify that it is a passport."

    I replied:

    1. I wagered 7030, his employee had confirmed that I had met the WR on the phone. Also, even if I hadn't, the WR at You must register/login in order to see the link. below the offer says 15x = 5250, which I had easily met.

    2. My scanned passport didn't have a very good photo, but it was the photo on my passport so it would have to do. I had a copy of the email I sent with attachments, and an email from his employee Mathew saying that all documents were received satisfactorily.

    I also told him that I had just sent a complaint about him to casinomeister and attached a copy of it, as I don't like talking about people behind their backs and thought he had a right to see it.

    Ted replied as follows:

    "This was a signup bonus, you did not use it as sign up bonus, you had previously signed up and used another bonus and played with that. So in actuality you are only entitled to your deposit back since you claimed a bonus that you were not entitled to. I was making the exception in your case and to allow you to still cash out on that bonus, that you did not qualify for. I see it is just better to send you your original deposit back and stick by the rules that you violated and not make an exception. I had replied to the e-mail you sent me less than 5 minutes from the time it was received, and had you checked your e-mail you would have seen I replied back to you well before you logged in to chat and spoke to Pam, and told her that you were going to post . Again, you did not wager 7030 you wagered a total of 6880 with us. 200.00 on your first deposit and 6680.00 on your second. So as I said before, when you complete your wagering go ahead and cash out."

    For the record, It is not true that he replied to my email within 5 minutes. I sent my email from the casinomeister website early in the morning, his reply arrived at 22.28 at night, at least 12 hours later, curiously just after I'd threatened Pam with complaining to casinomeister. My computer is connected to the internet all day, and I actually heard the ping from outlook express when his email arrived, and 22.28 is the time on his email.

    Also, this was my first payment into Spin2Win. The only other time I have made a payment to virtual casino was a 50 payment to WinIt where I claimed the signup bonus. I lost the deposit and bonus there.


    Part 4 My issues with virtualted/virtualcasino

    virtualted/virtualcasino is determined not to pay me my winnings, and so far these are the tricks they have tried:

    1. Claiming I needed to send a DTS when I didn't.
    2. Ignoring emails, not communicating why the withdrawal was denied.
    3. Not answering the phone or attending 24 hour livechat. When I finally got through on the phone or livechat, both times I was told that the employee couldn't help and there wasn't a manager present who could.
    4. Claiming that my passport photo was somehow a reason not to pay me, even though it had previously been confirmed that my documents were satisfactory.
    5. Creating confusion about the WR, which is variously described as x15 or x20, depending where you look.
    6. Claiming I hadn't met the higher WR, when I had and their employee had previously confirmed it on the phone. There is no record of wagering history available to the player at virtual casino.
    7. Saying that I was not entitled to the bonus in the first place, it had only been granted out of the goodness of virtualted's heart, and now that I've complained to casinomeister he's having it back.
    8. Saying it's only one bonus per group. This is not mentioned anywhere in his T&Cs, it's just another excuse invented to avoid paying me.

    Part 5 virtualted's argument about one bonus per group.

    At You must register/login in order to see the link. all group casinos are listed with bonuses advertised. When I see such a page I assume I can get each bonus at each casino. This is the case with other casino groups such as Trident Lounge, Vegas Partner Lounge, Belle Rock, Golden Palace group etc. etc. It is the norm. If a group does only allow one bonus per group, eg casino reward, it is clearly stated in the t&cs of each casino, eg this from Blackjack Ballroom:

    "In the event that you have not made a deposit at this or any other Casino Rewards member casino, you may not redeem more than one sign up bonus within the Casino Rewards network, regardless of the individual casino offering the sign up bonus."

    At the Spin2Win T&Cs You must register/login in order to see the link.
    there is no warning about claiming bonuses at each casino in the group. The only part that could remotely be considered to apply is this:

    "Only one promotion may be applied at one time to any player and promotions cannot be combined, unless otherwise stated. If a customer has a free chip or cash back due to them from a previous deposit, this bonus will be forfeited, if customer makes another deposit before using this bonus."

    This looks like it's referring to the various bonuses offered at Spin2Win, there is no mention of the group, and also "at one time" means you can't claim them all together, but have to claim them one after the other.

    Another difference between casinorewards and virtualcasino is that if you do claim a bonus from a second casino in the casinorewards group, you don't get it and they tell you why. If you claim a bonus from a second casino in the virtualcasino group they give it to you, hoping you'll lose it and your deposit with it. Only when you try to leave with any winnings do they suddenly inform you that it's only one bonus in the group, even though this isn't anywhere in their T&Cs. and as the last in a long line of invented excuses for not paying you.

    Part 6 Returning my deposit

    From virtualted's email:

    " in actuality you are only entitled to your deposit back since you claimed a bonus that you were not entitled to. ... I see it is just better to send you your original deposit back and stick by the rules that you violated and not make an exception. Again, you did not wager 7030 you wagered a total of 6880 with us. 200.00 on your first deposit and 6680.00 on your second. So as I said before, when you complete your wagering go ahead and cash out."

    So what he's saying is that he's taking back the bonus (it's sticky anyway) and my winnings from it, but if I want my deposit back he expects me to complete the wagering requirement on the bonus. Even though I'm not getting it or my winnings from it. This is ridiculous, he's just trying to get me to gamble again in the hope I'll lose my deposit. I've no intention of placing another bet at virtualcasino because:

    1. I don't trust them
    2. I shouldn't have to, I've met the 15x WR and the 20x WR already.
    3. They won't pay the bonus or any winning from it so shouldn't have to meet the WR for them.
    4. Even if I do and my deposit remains in tact, I'm quite sure virtualted will then find another reason not to pay me. All he's done so far is lift up various hoops and expect me to jump through them.

    Part 7 the current situation

    Virtualted owes me 265. This is my balance of 515 minus the sticky bonus of 250. He won't pay, but rather ignores me and then invents one false excuse after another. I've been had. Be warned, he belongs back on the Rogue List he somehow managed to crawl off a while ago. Don't trust him with your money.
     
  2. Feb 4, 2005
  3. unicorn40

    unicorn40 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    cold storage warehouse worker
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada....
    Virtual... still ROGUE

    I agree. This is another in a LONG LIST of complaints that have been posted about Virtual Casino, both here, and on almost EVERY gambling forum all over the internet.

    VirtualTed claims that they have 'turned over a new leaf' with him leading the way. I don't see that at all. I still believe that 'A leopard can't change it's spots'.

    According to VirtualTed, all the complaints are from cheats, fraudsters, bonus abusers, multi account holders, ect. I don't believe you, VirtualTed.

    Virtual Casino belongs on the ROGUE LIST.

    And in the TOP SPOT in my opinion. ;)
     
  4. Feb 4, 2005
  5. nafanny29

    nafanny29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    financail adviser
    Location:
    London, England
    For every 1 savvy player like 120sam that is aware of casinomeister and the like there are proberly 10-20 who are not. They get screwed, never gamble online again and feed the notion that online gaming is totally shit and full of clip joints.

    This industry badly needs regulating.

    120sam hope you get your payment mate.
     
  6. Feb 4, 2005
  7. arbster

    arbster Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the warning 120sam. I'd even started being drawn in by his presence on this forum. Forewarned is forearmed - I'll take my Neteller account elsewhere.
     
  8. Feb 4, 2005
  9. philipfromparis

    philipfromparis Dormant account

    Location:
    Paris, France
    you gave me more than one reason not to play in that place

    This is a place, according to your experience and others comments found on internet's gambling forums, where i will never bet a penny !! And i'll tell it to my friends !!

    What i find the most ludicrous in this story is that they ask you for a DTS when you tell us having credited your account with neteller ! What a shame ! Excuse after excuse, this kind of casinos causes trouble to fair ones !

    Sorry for you about this, but thank you for posting : this helps the industry to become better.
     
  10. Feb 4, 2005
  11. lanidar

    lanidar Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Avenel, New Jersey
    120SAM....
    That's a shame what Virtual did to you ...
    AND I'm sure many others that aren't as savvy as you are.

    I'm TRULY looking forward to your posts and the finalization to your problem.

    PS....I agree that the ENTIRE Virtual Casino Group belongs on the rogue list!!!
     
  12. Feb 4, 2005
  13. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    Good post, 120sam. At least other players will be forewarned what to expect if they risk a deposit (or, even worse, winning :eek: ) at one of these casinos.

    I remember someone asked VirtualTed if the reason there were so many of his casinos was to trap players into playing at more than one and then, if they win, deny the winnings. He claimed at the time it was just because 'some players preferred to play at casinos with different names/characters' :rolleyes: I thought at least he probably did have a water tight (if unethical) case for denying winnings as somewhere hidden in the T&Cs it would say you could only play at one Virtual Casino. Having checked again now it seems it isn't stated clearly anywhere. As you say, the website actively encourages playing at more than one of the casinos.

    The best advice to prospective players would probably be to click on VirtualTed's name here and have a read through all his posts. These are often entertaining and disarmingly honest (what other casino manager would dream of admitting only 5% or so of his players manage to cash-out, or that he doesn't understand his own terms and conditions?), but the general attitude shown to winning players should make anyone think twice before depositing.
     
  14. Feb 4, 2005
  15. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    120sam,

    Just one question. Did you use the same computer to register at both WinIt and Spin2Win. If so,you should have downloaded the same casino from virtual. If that is so,you should have been wary of them not giving you the signup bonus again. Actually,this was waiting to happen. In another thread,I actually told Virtualted that they should not be having virtual casino use different casino names. Who can blame players for thinking they are entirely different operations. So Ted,come over and give your side of the story.
     
  16. Feb 4, 2005
  17. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    Yes, I used the same computer. I was surprised when I downloaded from Spin2Win that it appeared to be the same casino as the one I downloaded from WinIt. However, this isn't the only group that has many casinos using the same software, eg Cryptologic, Microgaming, Golden Palace group. The virtual casino group has many websites and different casino names, so I assumed that as at the other groups, I could claim one bonus per casino. I thought they were all different operations in one group using the same software.

    The signup bonus codes for each casino in the virtual casino group are different, and so are the bonus amounts, which encourages you to think they are separate casinos and bonuses and that you can claim all of them. Nowhere does it say that it is only one bonus per group (I read the WinIt and Spin2Win T&Cs before depositing).

    When I entered the bonus code for Spin2Win the bonus was credited immediately. I took that as confirmation that new customers can claim the signup bonus at each casino in the virtual group (I'd already had the bonus at WinIt). If virtual casino have a policy against this, I would expect them to tell me in the T&Cs, and also not to credit the bonus.

    I've never come across a casino that gives you a bonus it doesn't think you're entitled to. If you erroneously claim a bonus at casino rewards, Vegas Partner Lounge, Cryptologic casinos etc, they don't credit it. You send them an email asking why and they tell you. No problem. Virtual casino gives it to you and hopes you lose it with your deposit, and if you win, it takes the winnings off you anyway.

    I don't accept that I wasn't entitled to claim the signup deposit at Spin2Win, it's just the latest in virtualted's series of dodgy excuses for not paying me. His email didn't refer to anything in the T&Cs that say it isn't allowed, because there is nothing. It's as valid as his objections to my not sending a DTS and my passport photo. If he offers various bonuses and I accept those offers by depositing and risking my own money, he has to stick to his side of the bargain, and not invent new terms that weren't in writing or brought to my attention before I deposited.
     
  18. Feb 4, 2005
  19. gfkostas

    gfkostas Ex-Bonus Whore

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    Where is ted here to address that issue? Am expecting his intervation in public on that
     
  20. Feb 4, 2005
  21. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    The problem with the godzillion Virtual "clone" sites is that they do all download as Virtual, and as such Virtual does have some justification in claiming only one bonus per group. However, in the first place, since a player downloading Virtual from a clone site simply ends up signing up again and again with the same Virtual casino, WHY does the software not block the subsequent account applications? The personal details are identical - why can they not pick up on this and block the request? In the second place, these godzillion Virtual clones obviously cause no end of headaches. If Virtual want to run sister casinos, they should stick to maybe a maximum of four or five, and have them run as SEPARATE ENTITIES: DIFFERENT sites downloading DIFFERENT casinos with SEPARATE bonuses, so if play Spin2win (or whatever) I can claim the bonus there and not get into this ridiculous mess. I suppose churning out more and more of these clone sites gives them a lot more outreach, but it isn't remotely helpful to the player.

    Also, that the player is required, bonus and winnings forfeited, to complete wagering on said forfeited bonus, is ridiculous.

    Sort this out, Virtual.
     
  22. Feb 4, 2005
  23. Black21Jack

    Black21Jack Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Courier driver
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    The Virtual Casino site has got to be the worst set up and most confusing casino website I have ever been. According to the Virtual website they have 10 DIFFERENT casinos to choose from all offering their own promotions. When you download the casino from any of these it is just the Virtual Casino software.

    1. If a player who does not know this and already has an account with Virtual Casino they will open an account thinking they are opening an account with the casino of the webpage they downloaded from and will most definitely be accused of multiple accounts with Virtual Casino(very sneaky)

    2. The bonuses are confusing as hell and there are so many different ones. I am assuming that you used the following promotion as quoted from the Spin2Win promotions webpage at You must register/login in order to see the link. :

    Which is held to the following rules as quoted from the Spin2Win promotions rules webpage at You must register/login in order to see the link. :

    It seems as though they are holding you to the following promotion quoted from the Virtual Casino website at You must register/login in order to see the link. :

    I don't even play here and my brain is hurting from trying to read all the promotions from both websites; thevirtualcasino.com and spin2win.com even though they are both the same casino. I could be wrong, not sure if that is the promotion but trying to navigate through those websites is painful.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2005
  24. Feb 4, 2005
  25. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    For a limited time SPIN2WIN Casino is offering a
    250% Sign-up Bonus:

    Deposit $20 get $50 FREE!
    Deposit $100 get $250 FREE!
    Redeem coupon code : E43KK

    Bonus Rules : Bonus will be credited instantly as soon as you make a deposit by redeeming the coupon above.
    Max. bonus money is $250. 15 times play through and the max. you can
    cash out is 10 times of your deposit!


    That's the one I claimed, at the link in my first post.
     
  26. Feb 6, 2005
  27. unicorn40

    unicorn40 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    cold storage warehouse worker
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada....
    Where is VirtualTed?

    Hummmm.....

    Funny... VirtualTed has chosen not to respond or discuss this issue. :what:

    Maybe there just isn't anything to say. :rolleyes:
     
  28. Feb 6, 2005
  29. universexf6

    universexf6 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Harakiri
    Location:
    A Country Called Full Of Geld
    In my opinion people naturally think they can claim the sign up offer per each virtual sister casinos. I realized it is players who must check vainly if this is true or not. I realized they are trying to fool you into some set up by spawning as many as sisters sites.
     
  30. Feb 7, 2005
  31. 120sam

    120sam Banned User

    Location:
    Germany
    I've just been told that part of my original post has been copied to:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    With a referral back to this thread. For the avoidance of any doubt, I am more than happy for my post to be copied / referred to at any place where online players meet and discuss.

    I don't do the forum thing much myself, I think I posted once at Rpoints about a year ago, and this is my first post at casinomeister. I was going to shrug off my loss at virtual casino, take it as a lesson and get on with my life, but I was persuaded by friends that I should at least warn other players.

    I don't have any great expectations of virtualted or of seeing my money again, the main purpose of my original post was to warn other players not to make the same mistake I did, so the more people who see it, the better. If anyone wants to copy it please refer people back to this thread too.
     
  32. Feb 7, 2005
  33. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Hi Unicorn40 - please bear in mind that Vted probably doesn't work weekends (like me :D) and he was last here in the forum on Friday before this thread was initiated. I'm sure he'll join the party sometime soon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2005
  34. Feb 7, 2005
  35. jinnia

    jinnia Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Lady of Leisure
    Location:
    Bite, ME
    It was the call of the Super Bowl and Vegas that kept many people off line this week-end.
     
  36. Feb 8, 2005
  37. virtualted

    virtualted No longer working for Virtual

    Location:
    Costa Rica
    Still in Vegas

    I am still in Vegas. I get back later this week , but will be in contact. I am in LA now. I do not have the exact details with me, but look at and reread the e-mail I sent this person. He played 2 seperate SIGN UP bonuses, less than a few minutes apart. So when he called in to service they did not see that the two different bonuses came only minutes apart when he said he had completed wagering. Look at the post and see that I told him what his wagering requirements were, he is just about there, and in fact can even add to his bonus before cashing out. He states that we are hiding his wagering , as everyone here knows RTG software does not show you where your wagering is, but if there is ever a question or doubt we can always show you the logs, we never hide anything. Since I can pull the exact playing logs when I get back and can post them for all to see, how does this player think that he has made an exact number of his play.
    So since this player has decided to forward with all of this publically, lets get your opinions on this.
    If a player plays a bonus he is not entitled to, like 2 sign up bonuses, or a non blackjack bonus, and plays black jack, or such like that. Does the casino have to pay him, when and if he wins?
    As you see by my original reply to him, He had used a sign up bonus with a 15x play through, since he had all ready used a sign up bonus 5 minutes before that. I told him I would still honor the bonus and just make him play the terms and conditions on the site 20x, as if he was a regular playyer, as he was at this point.
    So some one tell me what we have done wrong?
    Ted
    From Los Angeles for now
     
  38. Feb 8, 2005
  39. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    Finally, the trademark unprofessional and incoherent response to public criticism we've all come to know and love.

    At two separate casinos with separate sign-up bonuses (to the untrained eye).

    What do you mean he 'can even add to his bonus'?

    As far as I remember he didn't say the wagering was 'hidden', just that there was no way he could check. So he called you up and you told him he'd met the wagering requirement. In fact, far exceeded the 15x wr mentioned for the particular bonus.

    :what: You decided to increase the wagering requirement on the bonus he was cashing out? After he'd already wagered it? It's out of the goodness of your heart?

    You set up your casinos to trick players into playing more than one, safe in the knowledge that if they ever win you can claim back their winnings as in fact there's only one casino where you can only claim one sign-up bonus - despite the fact the terms and conditions don't make this clear.

    After he won your customer service didn't respond to his queries and instead you spent your time finding any possible excuse you could not to pay/to delay payment. It appears you only came up with the 'multiple accounts' reason when you'd exhausted other options.

    You also appear to want him to complete the wagering on the bonus (even though he's already completed it), but then you won't give him this bonus or his winnings, you'll just pay back the deposit. Is this true?

    Anyway, that should be enough you've done wrong for starters!
     

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