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VIPCASINOS does not like winners

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by belgamo, Jun 16, 2006.

    Jun 16, 2006
  1. belgamo

    belgamo RIP Tony :(

    Occupation:
    gambler
    Location:
    usa
    Ill let you read my emails and chat transcripts, I feel that the bonus being denied is wrong,wrong,wrong. Just because I play slots and happen to hit a random slot jackpot about a month ago.

    Here's the email that stunned me!

    RE: GoneGambling High Roller Bonus Claim!



    Dear Tony,

    Thank you for contacting VIPcasinos.

    We are sorry to inform you that you are not entitled to a bonus. The reason for this is that our bonus program is intended for recreational bettors only.
    As you are considered to be a professional player, VIP management has no alternative, but to decline your bonus request. However, we appreciate you making use of our services.

    If you have any questions or comments, feel free to contact us at any time.

    Best regards,

    Emmy

    VIPcasinos Support

    Telephone 1-800 511 1937
    Fax 1-800 887 8691
    This email is not visible to you.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.


    Followed by this chat transcript.


    One of our Member Services staff will be with you in a moment
    You are now chatting with Gilbert
    Gilbert: Thanks for contacting us at VIP - how may I help you today?
    belgamo: Hi i was denied a gonegambling high roller bonus for being described as a "professional bettor" ,wondering how this is when i play mostly slots. what do ddeem a professional betytor?
    Gilbert: Please hold one moment.
    belgamo: ty
    belgamo: plus i've only lost the last three weeks
    Gilbert: Thank you for your patience.
    belgamo: ok
    Gilbert: Tony, the reason why the bonus is being denied is because you withdrew more then you have deposited. This means that you have a winning account.
    belgamo: Well then that should be forwared to john at gonegambling so that he can put that in the box for the claim . thanks tony. ps you have lost me as a patron.



    Just for being a winner, we'll I guess they never will get a chance to get the money back.
     
  2. Jun 16, 2006
  3. belgamo

    belgamo RIP Tony :(

    Occupation:
    gambler
    Location:
    usa
    Here's another email justt to back it up!

    Dear Tony,

    Thank you for contacting us at VipCasinos.

    We would like to inform you that management reserves the right to refuse a bonus to anyone at any time. If you have any questions as to your eligibility, please contact us. Our bonus program is intended for recreational bettors only. Professional players or players considered to be abusing the bonus system by any means may have bonuses revoked at the discretion of management.

    Your account is showing that your withdrawals are more then your deposits. This gives management enough reason to deny you a bonus.

    If you have any other questions or comments, feel free to contact us at any time.

    Regards,

    Gilbert

    VIPcasinos Support
    Telephone 1-800 300 2387
    Fax 1-800 887 8691
    This email is not visible to you.
    You must register/login in order to see the link..
     
  4. Jun 16, 2006
  5. elscrabinda

    elscrabinda Experienced Member PABnorogue PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    jvonsofdmpvs
    Location:
    Oxford
    I think VIP are actually up front with their reload bonuses that you have to be overall down to receive them. Maybe this should be pointed out on GoneGambling but it does say refer to individual casino terms
     
  6. Jun 16, 2006
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Rotten

    GG is supposed to be all about loyalty, and the bonuses should be considered separately. It seems that any player who has won overall is a professional, even if the win was a complete stroke of luck on the slots rather than a result of smart gameplay.

    It is well worth pointing this out on the GG forum that is is policy with this group to allow the GG bonuses only in accounts with a negative life balance, just as in the normal bonus terms.

    John at GG is tied to the interpretations of individual casinos, but they are expected to be up front and apply the terms fairly.

    I would suggest that once any player has a positive lifetime balance here, they might as well uninstall the software and play elsewhere, even if generally they lose, as at least they can give the money back to a casino that will still give them a few bonuses.

    Intertops also has this rule on accounts with positive life balances. I think that we should interpret such terms, where they exist, as including ALL bonuses, even those obtained through membership of a loyalty portal.

    VIP Casinos have made a mistake, they have denied themselves the certainty (almost) of winning back the money from a slots player - and in the long term they will.
     
  8. Jun 16, 2006
  9. tennis_balls

    tennis_balls Dormant account

    Occupation:
    fish n chips promoter
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    VIP Casino vs VIP Casinos

    I think the former would be served well with an immediate name change.

    I found both VIP Casinos and Intertops each emanated a foul odor. :eek2:

    I feel secure playing anywhere on the CM accredited list, but I've learned that there's quite a distinction between feeling secure and having a satisfactory casino experience. There's nothing worse than when you haven't even made your first bet and you're already regretting that you signed up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2006
  10. Jun 17, 2006
  11. handkey

    handkey Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    NJ
    professional betytor???

    Really absurd!!!

    How do they distinguish professional betytor and newie?

    You can contact GG for this case.
     
  12. Jun 18, 2006
  13. belgamo

    belgamo RIP Tony :(

    Occupation:
    gambler
    Location:
    usa
    Very simple, just replace the CAP words for their terms

    recreational bettor- LOSER
    professional bettor- WINNER

    I must say I have deposited over 3,000 so far this year into the casino and this is what they do for a regular patron, I always felt good with them until this episode. Also I forgot to add I NEVER have never taken a reload bonus.
     
  14. Jun 18, 2006
  15. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    :eek:

    Thanks for the info, I had recently opened an account thru Casinomeister here and had just not got around to making a deposit yet...glad I did not deposit there, thanks for the warning!
     
  16. Jun 18, 2006
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    VIP or not

    I joined this casino through GoneGambling. I was impressed by the software, but not impressed that a professional is defined as a winner without regard to how this win was obtained.
    Had I known this, I would have "gone for the jugular" with the full $600 sign-up bonus as it seems if I am ahead after playing with the $100 I put in I will never see another bonus. I had thought that the rules about positive accounts were aimed at the reload bonuses, not at every single bonus and prize they offered.
    If I ever get ahead I will cash-in and uninstall the software, it will be no good for me, I will deposit the winnings elsewhere. If I am down (far more likely), I will take the smaller bonuses and deposit around $50 to $100 per month and hope to hit a big win one day.
    I could understand this attitude for a Blackjack player, but not for slots!
     
  18. Jun 19, 2006
  19. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    Is VIPCasinos RTG?

    I know SciFi (about which I never had any complaint) cut off my loyalty points and all bonuses after playing there for a year or so. Then, months later, I found out by accident that I was flagged 'account not in good standing'. Note that I very, very rarely ever used a bonus. (Upset, flabberghasted, and insulted, I posted about it last winter, I believe.) I ran my deposits and cashout numbers and found that I was ahead about $200 for around 2 years of regular (2 or 3 times weekly) play at SciFi. (No, I don't play there anymore, so they don't have a chance to win it back. :p )

    Now I'm wondering if this is 'standard' among RTG casinos?
     
  20. Jun 19, 2006
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Standard

    I don't know whether it is standard, but it is very short sighted. If casinos tell players they are not allowed to win, then why would they bother playing there beyond the sign-up bonus. Since most bonuses lead to a small win, this is playing into the hands of the bonus chaser, making it true that they will be "account not in good standing" if they stick around.
    It will work against them in the long run, as they will find no winning player has a good word to say about them, and others will get the impression that "nobody ever wins there and survives".

    A good casino should treat winners and losers alike, as in the broader scale the winners are financed by the many losers due to the house edge.
     
  22. Jun 19, 2006
  23. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Yes, VIPCasinos is RTG and I think it's safe to say it's standard for at least some RTG casinos.

    I've had the same thing happen at other RTGs, but Shark Casino is the only specific name that comes to mind. Of course, I pretty much only take bonuses, so it didn't (or doesn't) surprise me if/when it happens to me. I just move on to the next one ...

    However, I do agree that to tell a regular depositer that they can't get an occasional bonus because "your withdrawal amount exceeds your deposit amount" isn't a good long-term business concept. :thumbsup:
     
  24. Jun 19, 2006
  25. betting88

    betting88 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    advertsing
    Location:
    canada
    "vip profits only welcome recreational players."
    if you win, you are not recreational player, otherwise you are.
    I don't like vipprofits.
    I will never make a deposit in this group.
     
  26. Jun 19, 2006
  27. greedygirl

    greedygirl Purveyor of Onions CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Marketing & Advertising
    Location:
    Someplace other than where you're at
    I just want to address this issue about VIP.

    GoneGambling does its very best to look after our members. In this instance with Belgamo, Ive already contacted our campaign manager at the casino on his behalf and am simply waiting for a reply. This is the first time something like this has occurred with VIP and before the lynch mob comes in, I think it's only fair to hear the casino's side to this.

    It does trouble me, however, that Belgamo chose to make his post, here at CM, as he has. Belgamo emailed John about the problem. Shortly thereafter (according to my calculations, we're talking about minutes), Belgamo posted here, knowing full well we would look into this matter. Belgamo is a frequent poster to our Promo Forums (promoting his own site dedicated to casino bonuses), and is certainly aware that we ask members to contact us when there are problems. All we ask is that when there is a problem that we are given a modicum of patience to see if we can resolve the issue, before posting about the problem. In Belgamos case, he emailed us on the problem AND then posted it at Casinomeister within a matter of minutes, without allowing for a reasonable amount of time to investigate.

    When John received the email, it was forwarded on to me to look into. Standard practice is for me to contact the campaign manager, which I did, Thursday evening. I have not yet received a reply and because our campaign manager is always very quick to reply, I'm guessing she took Friday off--I will phone her in the morning and get to the bottom of this.

    But heres where the trouble lies

    Belgamo has initiated this conversation, here at Casinomeister in which people are putting there two, three and four cents into. They are doing so on the basis that what Belgamo is saying is 100% accurate, and without all of the facts in front of them. Judging by GoneGambling's incredibly lengthy history with VIP, this action is absolutely out of character for the casino--as such, we need more information. Further, GoneGambling is being dragged into it and its certainly unfair when were doing our best to get things sorted out.

    It really gets under my skin that I should have to chase after this sort of situation at other sites because someone cant give us the courtesy of time to look into things. Its only made worse by observers jumping on a bandwagon and discrediting a casino that has always been reputableagain on one persons allegations.

    I'll repeat--I don't know the whole story here, so I have no idea if VIP has made some questionable policy changes or if there's more to Belgamo's story than we know. What I do know, however, is it is absolutely unfair to cast aspersions one way or the other until all facts are on the table.
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Jun 19, 2006
  29. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!

    Unless this person Belgamo is just really bored and just sits around and makes up fake e-mails and fake chat sessions then it really appears that all or at least most of the important facts are on the table imo...:cool:
     
  30. Jun 19, 2006
  31. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Did anyone (belgamo?) bother to contact the casino rep about this?
    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/vmscasinos.html

    2. Posting Complaints

    2.2 - Do not post a complaint without notifying the appropriate casino representative by either PM or email. The casino representatives are listed here.


    The complaints section is not merely a "bitch and moan" forum where we just go around in circles complaining about whatever; it's where we solve problems. Players learn from their mistakes as well as managers and casino operators. Communication (in most cases) is the key to solving these problems. Let's get with the program and utilize the forum in the way it was intended to be used. Thanks!
     
  32. Jun 19, 2006
  33. henryVIII

    henryVIII Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacher
    Location:
    UK
    Yeah, thats how I saw it. He even lets their emails/livechat tell the story.
     
  34. Jun 19, 2006
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Innocent till proven otherwise.

    I always post on the assumption that another poster is being truthful, even if in "the heat of the moment". We how have the "case for the proscecution" before us, including witness testimony from other players with experiences of this casino. The "trial" is only half over though, now the working week has begun, the casino rep and interested parties can present the evidence for the defence (whether in public or to Bryan/John to resolve behind the scenes).

    As for the chat logs, as I said before in the BelleRock issue, a certified document, once scanned and sent, loses it's authenticity. The same argument CAN be used for a chat log posted on a forum, once cut and pasted, it is an "account of a chat log", and it would be easy for one to be carefully edited to present the case as the poster sees fit. This does NOT mean to say that Belgamo did anything of the sort, but we need corroborating evidence before we can say the chat log is cast iron proof against the casino.
    We should look at the opposite question, are there players here with a positive lifetime balance who HAVE still received loyalty bonuses through GoneGambling?
    This "positive lifetime balance" rule seems more prevalent at sportsbooks, and VIP is a sportsbook with a casino. Intertops also has this rule, and they are Microgaming, not RTG, but again are a sportsbook with a casino.
     
  36. Jun 19, 2006
  37. liquuid_fusion

    liquuid_fusion Meister Member PABnorogue PABnononaccred2 PABaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    UK
    Just to add to this thread about vipcasinos reload bonuses, I was sent this today:

    The fact that this bonus is for LUCKY players, (ie those that win?) and was personalised, made me quite suprised when I was denied it on the grounds of having a lifetime profit in my account. :eek2:

    Won't be back!
     
  38. Jun 19, 2006
  39. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    Oh phooey. I got the same email. Just checked and I am up $30 on them.

    I won't be back either.
     

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