VIPCASINOS does not like winners

[belgamo]

Ill let you read my emails and chat transcripts, I feel that the bonus being denied is wrong,wrong,wrong. Just because I play slots and happen to hit a random slot jackpot about a month ago.

Here's the email that stunned me!

RE: GoneGambling High Roller Bonus Claim!



Dear Tony,

Thank you for contacting VIPcasinos.

We are sorry to inform you that you are not entitled to a bonus. The reason for this is that our bonus program is intended for recreational bettors only.
As you are considered to be a professional player, VIP management has no alternative, but to decline your bonus request. However, we appreciate you making use of our services.

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to contact us at any time.

Best regards,

Emmy

VIPcasinos Support

Telephone 1-800 511 1937
Fax 1-800 887 8691
support@vipcasinos.com



Followed by this chat transcript.


One of our Member Services staff will be with you in a moment
You are now chatting with Gilbert
Gilbert: Thanks for contacting us at VIP - how may I help you today?
belgamo: Hi i was denied a gonegambling high roller bonus for being described as a "professional bettor" ,wondering how this is when i play mostly slots. what do ddeem a professional betytor?
Gilbert: Please hold one moment.
belgamo: ty
belgamo: plus i've only lost the last three weeks
Gilbert: Thank you for your patience.
belgamo: ok
Gilbert: Tony, the reason why the bonus is being denied is because you withdrew more then you have deposited. This means that you have a winning account.
belgamo: Well then that should be forwared to john at gonegambling so that he can put that in the box for the claim . thanks tony. ps you have lost me as a patron.


Just for being a winner, we'll I guess they never will get a chance to get the money back.


Read Byrans review of this casino here

 

[belgamo]

Here's another email justt to back it up!

Dear Tony,

Thank you for contacting us at VipCasinos.

We would like to inform you that management reserves the right to refuse a bonus to anyone at any time. If you have any questions as to your eligibility, please contact us. Our bonus program is intended for recreational bettors only. Professional players or players considered to be abusing the bonus system by any means may have bonuses revoked at the discretion of management.

Your account is showing that your withdrawals are more then your deposits. This gives management enough reason to deny you a bonus.

If you have any other questions or comments, feel free to contact us at any time.

Regards,

Gilbert

VIPcasinos Support
Telephone 1-800 300 2387
Fax 1-800 887 8691
support@vipcasinos.com
www.vipcasinos.com.

 

[elscrabinda]

I think VIP are actually up front with their reload bonuses that you have to be overall down to receive them. Maybe this should be pointed out on GoneGambling but it does say refer to individual casino terms

 

[vinylweatherman]

Rotten

GG is supposed to be all about loyalty, and the bonuses should be considered separately. It seems that any player who has won overall is a professional, even if the win was a complete stroke of luck on the slots rather than a result of smart gameplay.

It is well worth pointing this out on the GG forum that is is policy with this group to allow the GG bonuses only in accounts with a negative life balance, just as in the normal bonus terms.

John at GG is tied to the interpretations of individual casinos, but they are expected to be up front and apply the terms fairly.

I would suggest that once any player has a positive lifetime balance here, they might as well uninstall the software and play elsewhere, even if generally they lose, as at least they can give the money back to a casino that will still give them a few bonuses.

Intertops also has this rule on accounts with positive life balances. I think that we should interpret such terms, where they exist, as including ALL bonuses, even those obtained through membership of a loyalty portal.

VIP Casinos have made a mistake, they have denied themselves the certainty (almost) of winning back the money from a slots player - and in the long term they will.

 

[tennis_balls]

VIP Casino vs VIP Casinos

I think the former would be served well with an immediate name change.

I found both VIP Casinos and Intertops each emanated a foul odor.

I feel secure playing anywhere on the CM accredited list, but I've learned that there's quite a distinction between feeling secure and having a satisfactory casino experience. There's nothing worse than when you haven't even made your first bet and you're already regretting that you signed up.

 

[handkey]

professional betytor???

Really absurd!!!

How do they distinguish professional betytor and newie?

You can contact GG for this case.

 

[belgamo]

Very simple, just replace the CAP words for their terms

recreational bettor- LOSER
professional bettor- WINNER

I must say I have deposited over 3,000 so far this year into the casino and this is what they do for a regular patron, I always felt good with them until this episode. Also I forgot to add I NEVER have never taken a reload bonus.

 

[RobWin]

Thanks for the info, I had recently opened an account thru Casinomeister here and had just not got around to making a deposit yet...glad I did not deposit there, thanks for the warning!

 

[vinylweatherman]

VIP or not

I joined this casino through GoneGambling. I was impressed by the software, but not impressed that a professional is defined as a winner without regard to how this win was obtained.
Had I known this, I would have "gone for the jugular" with the full $600 sign-up bonus as it seems if I am ahead after playing with the $100 I put in I will never see another bonus. I had thought that the rules about positive accounts were aimed at the reload bonuses, not at every single bonus and prize they offered.
If I ever get ahead I will cash-in and uninstall the software, it will be no good for me, I will deposit the winnings elsewhere. If I am down (far more likely), I will take the smaller bonuses and deposit around $50 to $100 per month and hope to hit a big win one day.
I could understand this attitude for a Blackjack player, but not for slots!

 

[Mousey]

Is VIPCasinos RTG?

I know SciFi (about which I never had any complaint) cut off my loyalty points and all bonuses after playing there for a year or so. Then, months later, I found out by accident that I was flagged 'account not in good standing'. Note that I very, very rarely ever used a bonus. (Upset, flabberghasted, and insulted, I posted about it last winter, I believe.) I ran my deposits and cashout numbers and found that I was ahead about $200 for around 2 years of regular (2 or 3 times weekly) play at SciFi. (No, I don't play there anymore, so they don't have a chance to win it back. )

Now I'm wondering if this is 'standard' among RTG casinos?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Standard

I don't know whether it is standard, but it is very short sighted. If casinos tell players they are not allowed to win, then why would they bother playing there beyond the sign-up bonus. Since most bonuses lead to a small win, this is playing into the hands of the bonus chaser, making it true that they will be "account not in good standing" if they stick around.
It will work against them in the long run, as they will find no winning player has a good word to say about them, and others will get the impression that "nobody ever wins there and survives".

A good casino should treat winners and losers alike, as in the broader scale the winners are financed by the many losers due to the house edge.

 

[Macgyver]

Is VIPCasinos RTG?

Now I'm wondering if this is 'standard' among RTG casinos?

Yes, VIPCasinos is RTG and I think it's safe to say it's standard for at least some RTG casinos.

I've had the same thing happen at other RTGs, but Shark Casino is the only specific name that comes to mind. Of course, I pretty much only take bonuses, so it didn't (or doesn't) surprise me if/when it happens to me. I just move on to the next one ...

However, I do agree that to tell a regular depositer that they can't get an occasional bonus because "your withdrawal amount exceeds your deposit amount" isn't a good long-term business concept.

 

[wangpoker]

"vip profits only welcome recreational players."
if you win, you are not recreational player, otherwise you are.
I don't like vipprofits.
I will never make a deposit in this group.

 

[greedygirl]

I just want to address this issue about VIP.

GoneGambling does its very best to look after our members. In this instance with Belgamo, Ive already contacted our campaign manager at the casino on his behalf and am simply waiting for a reply. This is the first time something like this has occurred with VIP and before the lynch mob comes in, I think it's only fair to hear the casino's side to this.

It does trouble me, however, that Belgamo chose to make his post, here at CM, as he has. Belgamo emailed John about the problem. Shortly thereafter (according to my calculations, we're talking about minutes), Belgamo posted here, knowing full well we would look into this matter. Belgamo is a frequent poster to our Promo Forums (promoting his own site dedicated to casino bonuses), and is certainly aware that we ask members to contact us when there are problems. All we ask is that when there is a problem that we are given a modicum of patience to see if we can resolve the issue, before posting about the problem. In Belgamos case, he emailed us on the problem AND then posted it at Casinomeister within a matter of minutes, without allowing for a reasonable amount of time to investigate.

When John received the email, it was forwarded on to me to look into. Standard practice is for me to contact the campaign manager, which I did, Thursday evening. I have not yet received a reply and because our campaign manager is always very quick to reply, I'm guessing she took Friday off--I will phone her in the morning and get to the bottom of this.

But heres where the trouble lies

Belgamo has initiated this conversation, here at Casinomeister in which people are putting there two, three and four cents into. They are doing so on the basis that what Belgamo is saying is 100% accurate, and without all of the facts in front of them. Judging by GoneGambling's incredibly lengthy history with VIP, this action is absolutely out of character for the casino--as such, we need more information. Further, GoneGambling is being dragged into it and its certainly unfair when were doing our best to get things sorted out.

It really gets under my skin that I should have to chase after this sort of situation at other sites because someone cant give us the courtesy of time to look into things. Its only made worse by observers jumping on a bandwagon and discrediting a casino that has always been reputableagain on one persons allegations.

I'll repeat--I don't know the whole story here, so I have no idea if VIP has made some questionable policy changes or if there's more to Belgamo's story than we know. What I do know, however, is it is absolutely unfair to cast aspersions one way or the other until all facts are on the table.

 

[RobWin]

I just want to address this issue about VIP.

I'll repeat--I don't know the whole story here, so I have no idea if VIP has made some questionable policy changes or if there's more to Belgamo's story than we know. What I do know, however, is it is absolutely unfair to cast aspersions one way or the other until all facts are on the table.

Unless this person Belgamo is just really bored and just sits around and makes up fake e-mails and fake chat sessions then it really appears that all or at least most of the important facts are on the table imo...

 

[The Dude]

...It’s only made worse by observers jumping on a bandwagon and discrediting a casino that has always been reputable…again on one person’s allegations.

I'll repeat--I don't know the whole story here, so I have no idea if VIP has made some questionable policy changes or if there's more to Belgamo's story than we know. What I do know, however, is it is absolutely unfair to cast aspersions one way or the other until all facts are on the table.

Did anyone (belgamo?) bother to contact the casino rep about this?
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

2. Posting Complaints

2.2 - Do not post a complaint without notifying the appropriate casino representative by either PM or email. The casino representatives are listed here.

The complaints section is not merely a "bitch and moan" forum where we just go around in circles complaining about whatever; it's where we solve problems. Players learn from their mistakes as well as managers and casino operators. Communication (in most cases) is the key to solving these problems. Let's get with the program and utilize the forum in the way it was intended to be used. Thanks!

 

[henryVIII]

Unless this person Belgamo is just really bored and just sits around and makes up fake e-mails and fake chat sessions then it really appears that all or at least most of the important facts are on the table imo...

Yeah, thats how I saw it. He even lets their emails/livechat tell the story.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Innocent till proven otherwise.

I always post on the assumption that another poster is being truthful, even if in "the heat of the moment". We how have the "case for the proscecution" before us, including witness testimony from other players with experiences of this casino. The "trial" is only half over though, now the working week has begun, the casino rep and interested parties can present the evidence for the defence (whether in public or to Bryan/John to resolve behind the scenes).

As for the chat logs, as I said before in the BelleRock issue, a certified document, once scanned and sent, loses it's authenticity. The same argument CAN be used for a chat log posted on a forum, once cut and pasted, it is an "account of a chat log", and it would be easy for one to be carefully edited to present the case as the poster sees fit. This does NOT mean to say that Belgamo did anything of the sort, but we need corroborating evidence before we can say the chat log is cast iron proof against the casino.
We should look at the opposite question, are there players here with a positive lifetime balance who HAVE still received loyalty bonuses through GoneGambling?
This "positive lifetime balance" rule seems more prevalent at sportsbooks, and VIP is a sportsbook with a casino. Intertops also has this rule, and they are Microgaming, not RTG, but again are a sportsbook with a casino.

 

[hitobito2005]

Just to add to this thread about vipcasinos reload bonuses, I was sent this today:

liquuid_fusion,

This month in the casino we have decided to surprise all of our lucky casino players with a special limited time reload bonus a gift from us to you.

When you reload your casino account on Tuesday June 20 th 2006 or Wednesday June 21 st 2006 we will give you a 150% reload bonus up to $500 .

To claim your reload bonus:

1.Reload your casino account

2.Send an email to support@vipcasinos.com with:
Subject: Casino Surprise June
Your account id
The amount of your deposit
Bonus code: June Surprise

3.We will then credit your account with the appropriate bonus

We look forward to seeing you in the casino!

The fact that this bonus is for LUCKY players, (ie those that win?) and was personalised, made me quite suprised when I was denied it on the grounds of having a lifetime profit in my account.

Won't be back!

 

[soflat]

The fact that this bonus is for LUCKY players, (ie those that win?) and was personalised, made me quite suprised when I was denied it on the grounds of having a lifetime profit in my account.

Oh phooey. I got the same email. Just checked and I am up $30 on them.

I won't be back either.

 

[belgamo]

Feel I better clear things up a little.
Yes I did send John a email, but at that time all I had was the first email, no chat session , nor the second email. As soon as I fired off that email to John I recieved the second. I apologize for not waiting alittle while longer, but I was peeved with the casino for its action , not treating a loyal player right,after they clearly stated the their decision was final. I deposit over $10,000 a month into online casinos .When treated right I will stay with a casino as I hate trying somewhere new .
As far as the emails I recieved I will gladly forward them to you ,so their is no doubt that I may have somehow edited them. The chat session is exactly as it took place, except I did highlight the one paragragh for posting. I will also state that I was very happy with the casino before this issue , cash ins were always processed headache free within 24 hours. I also won 100.00 random bonuses from them twice before the big hit. The only bonus I take is the gg high roller bonus, no reloads.

 

[bpb]

This has always been the bonus policy at VIPSports, long before they added the RTG download casino.

Many (possibly most) sportsbooks have clauses like this regarding reload bonuses for sports betting. If your (withdrawals + current balance) - deposits is a positive number, you aren't entitled to reloads. The problem is that VIPSports is using bonus conditions that are well understood in the sportsbook community and applying them to the casino community, where a clause like this is very uncommon.


VIPSports states this condition very clearly in the bonus terms and conditions on their websites (VIPSports, VIPCasinos, VIPHorses) I do think that they should explicitly repeat this clause in a disclaimer at the bottom of any promotional emails that they send out. They currently only include a link to a bonus terms page. But overall, I don't see the big issue here.

 

[belgamo]

This is what I asked from gg, I wanted to know why I was a "professional" at the time I had no clue. I was thinking the casino was making a mistake somehow , but later when I had the chat session and the second email came I clearly understood the situation. I had never ran into the situation before, of having a positive balance and being denied a bonus. I consider this a learning lesson.


From Emailus <emailus@gonegambling.com>
Sent Friday, June 16, 2006 4:19 am
To XXXXXXXX@tampabay.rr.com
Cc xxxxxxxxx <advertising@gonegambling.com> , xxxxxxx <xxxxxx@sbcglobal.net>
Bcc
Subject Fw: Fwd: RE: GoneGambling High Roller Bonus Claim!



Hi Tony,

It's left to the casinos discretion as to who they allow to receive bonuses and who they don't.

Debbee will see if she can find out more information for you but until then the casinos decision must stand.

John

GoneGambling - Your gambling adventure starts here...

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

----- Original Message -----
From: XXXXXXX@tampabay.rr.com
To: emailus@gonegambling.com ; emailus@gonegambling.com
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 11:45 AM
Subject: POTENTIAL SPAM Fwd: RE: GoneGambling High Roller Bonus Claim!


Hi, i don't want to post a bitch yet. Hope you could see what this is all about I play 90% slots , so I don't know how you can be a professional. Account with them is " belgamo " . Never had any problems with them before, I did hit a random slot jackpot about a month ago and they paid on that. My deposits are over 700.00 for the month. Once again just thought you might be able to find out why I am classified as a professional and declined a high roller bonus? Do I deposit too much? Thanks Tony





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From Support VIPcasinos <Support@vipcasinos.com>
Date Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:24:11 -0400
To XXXXXXX@tampabay.rr.com
Subject RE: GoneGambling High Roller Bonus Claim!





Dear Tony,

Thank you for contacting VIPcasinos.

We are sorry to inform you that you are not entitled to a bonus. The reason for this is that our bonus program is intended for recreational bettors only.
As you are considered to be a professional player, VIP management has no alternative, but to decline your bonus request. However, we appreciate you making use of our services.

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to contact us at any time.

Best regards,

Emmy

VIPcasinos Support

Telephone 1-800 511 1937
Fax 1-800 887 8691
support@vipcasinos.com
www.vipcasinos.com

 

[VMSCasinos]

Belgamo,

I wanted to follow up with this situation to ensure that the issue has been resolved. The bonus has been credited in our RTG account for you to use as you see fit. We apologize for the inconvenience that this may have caused.

One of our top priorities at VIP is to ensure that all of our customers have a positive experience while playing in our casino. Please feel free to contact me if you have any further issues with our product.

Thank you,

John

 

[bossplayer]

So i dont understand, is the policy of winners not getting any bonus still in place? Or are you making an exception to the rule and nothing is really fixed?