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Villa Fortuna - MAFIA TERMS

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by poser, Jan 24, 2009.

    Jan 24, 2009
  1. poser

    poser Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Hamburg
    Just be warned, there is a term at Villa Fortuna, I didn't believe my eyes when I saw it:

    Inactive accounts WILL NOT receive balance payments for wins.
    An active account requires that a player deposits a minimum of $/?/20 per week, and that the deposit is wagered through 20X. (All table games and Video Poker excluded from meeting the wagering requirements).

    You can ALSO keep your account active by depositing $/?/80 and wagering it through 20X at least once a month. Again all table games and Video Poker games are excluded from wagering).


    Well, thats wagering requirements on normal deposits AND if you happen to play there and havn't played a month, they can always say: "ehh, ehh, you will not receive a single coin...your account is sleeping..."

    You really have to wager 1600 on Slots only per month, or you will not receive any winnings??

    What if you deposit 80, and cannot meet the 1600 (not too uncommon) ? You have to deposit more and then wager it again 20 times ?????

    Oh MY GOD, Microgaming should kick'em out !! FAST!
     
    6 people like this.
  2. Jan 24, 2009
  3. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    :rolleyes:

    Another nail in the coffin for Grand Prive....it seems they care nothing about trying to make right with affiliates, so why should they screw players any less?

    There's a ton of sites, CM included, that have the whole lot of GP casinos listed as rogue.
     
  4. Jan 24, 2009
  5. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    GP has reached a new low when I didn't think that was possible...

    All I can say is... :eek:
     
  6. Jan 24, 2009
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is pretty much a fee for having the account of 80 per month. What about "responsible gambling". This MUST ultimately fall to Microgaming to deal with, they cannot be seen to tolerate such incredibly predatory terms. This term is only there because the casino intends to use it on some occasions.
    Previously, terms relating to inactive accounts have allowed 180 days to pass, and only charge fees as a deduction on balances left behind, and the player can take some of the blame for not making sure all their monies are accounted for.

    In effect, a player could take a break from playing, either generally, or at individual casinos, and for a mere few weeks at Villa Fortuna, and them return and have all losing deposits taken without comment, but with the possiblilty of payouts being refused based on this term.

    In terms of responsible gambling, there may be spells where there is not any spare money for weeks to months, and it is right that the player should be able to stop gambling, and return the next time they have some money to spare.

    There are now TWO very serious issues with Grand Prive, yet Microgaming seems not to care - shown by their inaction on the previous issue, which is essentially a breach of contract between a business and a number of it's promoters, surely not something Microgaming would tolerate if it were THEY that were told they would not be paid for the rights to use the software despite payment being agreed in the initial contract.

    It seems the industry sinks lower and lower, and if someone does not take action, it wont only be the US banning them, other governments will be queueing up to implement bans based on reports of such predatory terms, breaches of contract, and general "we are outside the law" approach some casinos have to their business.
    There are a large number of countries where these casinos are technically illegal, but are tolerated because the governments have more important issues to worry about. If problems increase, then the issues will become "mainstream", and the majority who do not play online, or even understand it much, will be demanding action from governments to deal with the "menace" of unaccountable offshore casinos taking money and there being little a player can do if they renege on the bets, or cheat players by rogue "smallprint" that would normally never be allowed anywhere near a consumer contract.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jan 24, 2009
  9. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Unreal - it is staggering that an online gambling group that has been around as long as Grand Prive can even consider this sort of crap.

    It's almost as if they want to chase players away - something they have probably managed to do with their many other reeally stupid moves.
     
  10. Jan 26, 2009
  11. poser

    poser Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Hamburg
    I see I'm not the only one who just cannot believe it.

    How can they be so stupid?
     
  12. Jan 27, 2009
  13. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree
    im not suprised , ive just found out who the new CEO of grand prive is :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  14. Jan 27, 2009
  15. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Hmm, don't you mean these guys?

    [​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Feb 16, 2009
  17. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Just a small note on this I discovered when writing it up: the rule only applies to players awaiting balance payments on wins over $10k, which is maximum monthly withdrawal limit. It's still bad, but worth noting.

    And the same term is applicable at ALL GP casinos btw (ie: Big Dollar (xhttp://www.bigdollar.com/tc_bonuspromo.asp)

    And interestingly, a casino I've never heard of called "Mandarin Palace" which must be tied in to GP too as the T&C's are identical. xhttp://www.mandarinpalace.com/terms-and-conditions.html#player-warrants
     
  18. Feb 16, 2009
  19. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    This is evil. Basically, you need to lose 80 credits a month on average in order to receive you own money. This is the sort of thing you expect from dodgy casinos based in Costa Rica, but Villa Fortuna is approved by ecogra and by the Maltese LGA. Perhaps someone could ask ecogra to comment on this (I would do it, but ecogra consider me the leader of the anti-ecogra forces in the world and won't talk to me.)
     
  20. Feb 16, 2009
  21. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I would love to hear eCogra's response to this one!

    Maybe Jet will volunteer to ask them how they feel about this term.
     
  22. Feb 16, 2009
  23. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I mentioned it in passing to eCOGRA at ICE but nothing formal - just dropped it into a conversation and they were suitably unimpressed. Wouldn't do any harm to follow that one up.
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Feb 16, 2009
  25. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Update: Andrew @ eCOGRA contacted me this morning to say they will have a look into it.
     
    3 people like this.
  26. Feb 18, 2009
  27. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK

    I'm not sure that you're right. I believe the intention is they will pay you your $10k and the rest of the money stays in the account. The $80 is just a sideshow, it seems they want you to lose all the rest as well. The $1600 WR is big enough that the kind of gambler who has >$10k may do something stupid is likely to lose a lot of money, certainly far more than $80, and hopefully for the casino the entire balance

    This is a 'rip-off the whale' clause.

    The big joke is that these crooks are registered in Malta, which is considered legitimate by Britain and 'safe' for British players to play and to be advertised.

    So much for 'responsible gambling'.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Feb 18, 2009
  29. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    What gets me is the fact that eCOGRA doesn't care if affiliates of a certified casino get the shaft, but if a certified casino has rogue T&C for the player, they immediately say they'll look into it? Before players get screwed?
     
  30. Feb 18, 2009
  31. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I would have thought that a preparedness to investigate before a player was screwed was a good thing?
     
  32. Feb 18, 2009
  33. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    I too think that eCOGRA should also do the same for the affiliates since most affiliates are also players too, at least the knowledgeable affiliates are or were.
     
  34. Feb 18, 2009
  35. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Sure it is; but the point I was trying to convey is that eCOGRA could care less about affiliates getting the shaft. Even when they had "signed" contracts with the casinos. Which is this case in this situation when they threw these contracts the window without warning nor reason, other than to stiff them on future payments. They breached these contracts and should be held accountable.
     
  36. Feb 18, 2009
  37. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    I am sure the casino wants to lose the player even more, but even the most responsible and disciplined player is forced to lose (on average).

    I am not even terribly impressed by Andrew Beveridge promising to look into it. Things with ecogra are never immediate. What I would like to see is him getting on the phone to the casino manager and telling him that "Hey buddy, either you pull these terms, or I'l pull your ecogra certification". Or even better, ecogra actively monitoring their casinos' T&C. Maybe they should have fewer casinos and keep them under better control.
     
    2 people like this.
  38. Feb 18, 2009
  39. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Well, I'm sure it doesn't help that they're over-extending themselves even more, with the branching out to certify bingo rooms, sportsbetting, and live gambling: You must register/login in order to see the link.


    Can we say "Too big for their britches?"

    ...or maybe they're turning into another CAP? You know, "certifying" anyone that wants to pay them? :rolleyes:
     

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