Vikings Go Berserk study

lockinlove

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If you can play the game in the UK then it has to be UK compliant.

Can it be played in the UK? I seriously dont even know. The commission I contacted was Malta because I didnt think they had a license for the UKGC for this game. I did look on their site and it only mentions malta for their jurisdiction for this one.
 

Monnii

Non-Gambler
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Location
finland
I support your findings 100%
When you fill up the meter to 85% the gameplay becomes horrible.
I have not recorded any of the gameplay ive done (which is alot) but ive watched every spin. And what i find is that the game "needs" to fill up another rage meter to approx 85% before it can give you the berzerk freespins in order to keep you playing.

(The only way for me to end up low on all berzerk meters has been to get the rage boost and trigger more than two at a time.)
For the last 20 times ive hit the berzerk freespins i have not hit more than two of the symbols that are berzerk for that round. Not a single time have i "come up" on + after the berzerk freespins compared to the amount i had at 85%.

I feel that this game is luring the player to think they are close to hitting the berzerk freespins as shown on the meter (thinking that the meters are one part- and the normal basegame another, ie. The berzerk meter would not affect the symbols being shown in basegame) when in reality the game is waiting for the rtp to be low enough for it to then be able to "fill it up" with the freespins. So that you cannot get ahead on this.
So what the berzerk freespins should be instead of "filled" as they dont fill randomly.
The feature should be random and not be shown "to lure the player to be close" just to keep you playing because youve already spent say, 100€ at 0,50€ to get the meter to 90%. OR.
Actually be random and the basegame and the meters should be separate, the meters reacting to base game and not the other way around.
 

lockinlove

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I support your findings 100%
When you fill up the meter to 85% the gameplay becomes horrible.
I have not recorded any of the gameplay ive done (which is alot) but ive watched every spin. And what i find is that the game "needs" to fill up another rage meter to approx 85% before it can give you the berzerk freespins in order to keep you playing.

(The only way for me to end up low on all berzerk meters has been to get the rage boost and trigger more than two at a time.)
For the last 20 times ive hit the berzerk freespins i have not hit more than two of the symbols that are berzerk for that round. Not a single time have i "come up" on + after the berzerk freespins compared to the amount i had at 85%.

I feel that this game is luring the player to think they are close to hitting the berzerk freespins as shown on the meter (thinking that the meters are one part- and the normal basegame another, ie. The berzerk meter would not affect the symbols being shown in basegame) when in reality the game is waiting for the rtp to be low enough for it to then be able to "fill it up" with the freespins. So that you cannot get ahead on this.
So what the berzerk freespins should be instead of "filled" as they dont fill randomly.
The feature should be random and not be shown "to lure the player to be close" just to keep you playing because youve already spent say, 100€ at 0,50€ to get the meter to 90%. OR.
Actually be random and the basegame and the meters should be separate, the meters reacting to base game and not the other way around.

This is the response I get from any heavy player of this game, I know you play this game an incredible amount. Its too bad I couldnt get any of your data.

That is why I question why they made it so blatant. The rtp change is so drastic it makes it incredibly noticeable. Like 60% rtp change is common once it hits the marker for the next 600 spins on average

I still have a lot of work ahead of me to get all these graphs together. Ive been busy with the BoD weekend and then getting my BTG screenshots in order.

Ive contacted a couple of casino reps here to see if they would be interested in seeing my data and maybe be able to get some sort of response from yggdrasil or malta gaming commission.

I will post the full graphs over the next couple of weeks.
 

dunover

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The whole topic is moot if you can establish whether a developer is allowed to have a dynamic or amended pool of values for the RNG while nearing a cumulative feature, in order to contribute to it but on a short-term basis for higher amount of the RTP. Sort of like the way pooled jackpot games pay 1% less from the base game, a low amount of the RTP, but over the long term.

If you look at the math for the slot it would be likely that's the only way it can work - for example say of the 96% 90% is allocated to base game pays and 6% to the features. The features would pay poorly depending on how frequent they are meant to arrive. So you have 16% for the feature, and 80% base game - the base game then becomes unplayable. So you retain 6% for the feature but have a period of play preceding it which enhances the payout in it, thus having both a good feature and overall base game. The RTP is still 96%. Will still pass scrutiny when audited.

It's permitted in games like TR2 and SMM as I said.

I firmly believe this is what's happening - either the pool of values changes at a certain point up until the trigger OR the parse sheets/reels are different at that point until it triggers. I think the former is more likely as the latter would be obvious to the players as the reels spun. What you could do is film the game when it plays 'normally' and then when it plays shite when the trigger nears. See if you notice the reels having different sets by slowing the video down and comparing the two. If not then it must be a simple RNG pool adjustment.

But beyond doubt he game DOES perform differently preceding the trigger.
 

lockinlove

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The whole topic is moot if you can establish whether a developer is allowed to have a dynamic or amended pool of values for the RNG while nearing a cumulative feature, in order to contribute to it but on a short-term basis for higher amount of the RTP. Sort of like the way pooled jackpot games pay 1% less from the base game, a low amount of the RTP, but over the long term.

If you look at the math for the slot it would be likely that's the only way it can work - for example say of the 96% 90% is allocated to base game pays and 6% to the features. The features would pay poorly depending on how frequent they are meant to arrive. So you have 16% for the feature, and 80% base game - the base game then becomes unplayable. So you retain 6% for the feature but have a period of play preceding it which enhances the payout in it, thus having both a good feature and overall base game. The RTP is still 96%. Will still pass scrutiny when audited.

It's permitted in games like TR2 and SMM as I said.

I firmly believe this is what's happening - either the pool of values changes at a certain point up until the trigger OR the parse sheets/reels are different at that point until it triggers. I think the former is more likely as the latter would be obvious to the players as the reels spun. What you could do is film the game when it plays 'normally' and then when it plays shite when the trigger nears. See if you notice the reels having different sets by slowing the video down and comparing the two. If not then it must be a simple RNG pool adjustment.

But beyond doubt he game DOES perform differently preceding the trigger.

As far as Im aware, its illegal. I have done some reading and I know that trancemonkey also stated its illegal they do it. I have looked through the gaming commission but cant find anything in relation.

I know that slots have build ups in them but the problem with this it isnt a build up. Its a blatant change 7/8's of the way towards the meter. Then you take into consideration thats about the time everyone starts to raise their bets hoping for a higher coin value or unaware it will affect the game.

You do 2000 spins at 60% rtp. You almost fill up the meter and at the marker it goes to 20% for the next 700 spins. Thats just ridiculous!

Thanks for your suggestion. I will try even though Im already certain the reels are different. The difference in RTP tells that alone and then the huge amount of dead spins with no characters appearing is pretty telling. Many of the testing I did results in 500 spins without a single character hit of said berserk meter. There have even been claims on here of going 1100 spins without hitting the needed character. Then once the filled and feature is over, the game starts to play normal and you are hitting the character on average once every 40 spins.

Im unaware what TR2 is and SMM but if those slots rtp change by 40-60% suddenly then I dont think that should be allowed. Its incredibly misleading and unethical.

And as long as the games RTP is returned to the testing company they would never know this happens. iTech labs, eCogra, GLI that certify these guys all do a RTP test.

Im still curious as to why Yggdrasil arent obtaining a UKGC or Gibraltar license for these 'build up games' but always just Malta. Im going to assume its because Malta allows this and the others dont?
 

aceking123

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Im still curious as to why Yggdrasil arent obtaining a UKGC or Gibraltar license for these 'build up games' but always just Malta. Im going to assume its because Malta allows this and the others dont?[/QUOTE]

I would think it would not pass our UKGC hence to why we cannot play it & they cannot be bothered to address the issue.
 

orion

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deep south of Eu
The whole topic is moot if you can establish whether a developer is allowed to have a dynamic or amended pool of values for the RNG while nearing a cumulative feature, in order to contribute to it but on a short-term basis for higher amount of the RTP. Sort of like the way pooled jackpot games pay 1% less from the base game, a low amount of the RTP, but over the long term.

If you look at the math for the slot it would be likely that's the only way it can work - for example say of the 96% 90% is allocated to base game pays and 6% to the features. The features would pay poorly depending on how frequent they are meant to arrive. So you have 16% for the feature, and 80% base game - the base game then becomes unplayable. So you retain 6% for the feature but have a period of play preceding it which enhances the payout in it, thus having both a good feature and overall base game. The RTP is still 96%. Will still pass scrutiny when audited.

It's permitted in games like TR2 and SMM as I said.

I firmly believe this is what's happening - either the pool of values changes at a certain point up until the trigger OR the parse sheets/reels are different at that point until it triggers. I think the former is more likely as the latter would be obvious to the players as the reels spun. What you could do is film the game when it plays 'normally' and then when it plays shite when the trigger nears. See if you notice the reels having different sets by slowing the video down and comparing the two. If not then it must be a simple RNG pool adjustment.

But beyond doubt he game DOES perform differently preceding the trigger.

great post Dunover, it's exactly what I was thinking to write but unable to do, due to my bad english.
I also did about 350K spins in real, and -even if I don't like Yggdrasil that much- I must admit my overall RTP is aligned with the declared one (96%).
Yes it's true that before the triggering of the bezerk the RTP very often collapses, and sincerely I don't know if this is permitted or not. I guess it depends also on the market (Italy is certainly subjected to different laws than UK). Well, basically in Italy there is NO laws :oops:.
At this point, it's up to the player to choose if he/she likes it or not.
 

YggdrasilGaming

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Feb 21, 2017
Location
Malta
Hi everyone!

First of all, thanks to everyone for the keen interest in Vikings Go Berzerk - even though we don't we agree with everything, we appreciate any feedback nonetheless :)
Here's a quick reply by us at Yggdrasil regarding some of the questions that have risen in this topic:

1) The RTP in Vikings Go Berzerk (VGB) doesn't change depending on how full any of the meters is. Also - the speed at which any meter fills doesn't change based on how full any meter is. Collection games are OK from a regulatory perspective, as long as it is described in the game rules how it works. But to secretly change the game RTP depending on the status of the collection is not OK. And we don't do that and have no incentive to do something like that. That goes for all of our games.

2) The reason VGB didn't have a UK certification until now is because the certification process is very strict and takes time. Due to that our games come to UK up to a couple of months later than the .com release - but nothing changes during that time in the game maths or game. That wouldn't be allowed by any regulatory body (and also by operators) and also we would have absolutely no incentive of doing anything like that, both because of our beliefs and repercussions. Each of our games is made to fit all the standards and certifications by all of the markets the game eventually will be available on - and that always also includes UK.

We are actively working on minimizing the time between receiving our Malta and UK licences with every new release and hoping to start putting out games on both .com and .uk sites simultaneously very soon. The certification of Vikings Go Berzerk by UK Gambling Commission was just finished and the game will be launched in UK 5th of April.

3) Our apologies to lockinlove that we haven't replied to him - as we continue our search for the emails that you've already sent and that seem to have slipped through the cracks of internet, we've also sent you a private response with a direct email so we can make sure you can share you studies with us.

We are of course honoured and thankful to everyone keeping a keen eye on our games, be it a fan or a critic, but also remind you that our goal is to offer our players the best slot games possible for years to come. And we don't believe one can be the best by cheating. We are a relatively young company but believe that the evergrowing list of AAA operators sharing our games, together with the industry awards we've received during our first years of operation are a clear sign that we also have earned the trust of both our peers and regulatory bodies.

Also just to give you a heads up on possible future discussions and to avoid any misunderstanding - we won't be replying on this forum regularly as we believe our actions to speak louder than our words. But we promise we'll keep an eye on and try to clarify when it seems our actions aren't enough anymore. :)

We hope you continue enjoying our games in the future as we enjoy making them. And be sure to check out the Vikings Go Berzerk on your favourite .uk sites starting from next Wednesday ;)


All the best,
Team Yggdrasil
 

lockinlove

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Hi everyone!

First of all, thanks to everyone for the keen interest in Vikings Go Berzerk - even though we don't we agree with everything, we appreciate any feedback nonetheless :)
Here's a quick reply by us at Yggdrasil regarding some of the questions that have risen in this topic:

1) The RTP in Vikings Go Berzerk (VGB) doesn't change depending on how full any of the meters is. Also - the speed at which any meter fills doesn't change based on how full any meter is. Collection games are OK from a regulatory perspective, as long as it is described in the game rules how it works. But to secretly change the game RTP depending on the status of the collection is not OK. And we don't do that and have no incentive to do something like that. That goes for all of our games.

2) The reason VGB didn't have a UK certification until now is because the certification process is very strict and takes time. Due to that our games come to UK up to a couple of months later than the .com release - but nothing changes during that time in the game maths or game. That wouldn't be allowed by any regulatory body (and also by operators) and also we would have absolutely no incentive of doing anything like that, both because of our beliefs and repercussions. Each of our games is made to fit all the standards and certifications by all of the markets the game eventually will be available on - and that always also includes UK.

We are actively working on minimizing the time between receiving our Malta and UK licences with every new release and hoping to start putting out games on both .com and .uk sites simultaneously very soon. The certification of Vikings Go Berzerk by UK Gambling Commission was just finished and the game will be launched in UK 5th of April.

3) Our apologies to lockinlove that we haven't replied to him - as we continue our search for the emails that you've already sent and that seem to have slipped through the cracks of internet, we've also sent you a private response with a direct email so we can make sure you can share you studies with us.

We are of course honoured and thankful to everyone keeping a keen eye on our games, be it a fan or a critic, but also remind you that our goal is to offer our players the best slot games possible for years to come. And we don't believe one can be the best by cheating. We are a relatively young company but believe that the evergrowing list of AAA operators sharing our games, together with the industry awards we've received during our first years of operation are a clear sign that we also have earned the trust of both our peers and regulatory bodies.

Also just to give you a heads up on possible future discussions and to avoid any misunderstanding - we won't be replying on this forum regularly as we believe our actions to speak louder than our words. But we promise we'll keep an eye on and try to clarify when it seems our actions aren't enough anymore. :)

We hope you continue enjoying our games in the future as we enjoy making them. And be sure to check out the Vikings Go Berzerk on your favourite .uk sites starting from next Wednesday ;)


All the best,
Team Yggdrasil

Ahhh its nice to hear from you guys. I didnt know you guys had an account here until I saw you visited the thread but didnt comment. Hence why I sent you a pm the other day hoping you would partake. So I am glad you joined in.

And thanks for answering my PM with the questions I had and stating you are interested in seeing my data after asking if you would be.
 

Jono777

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Also just to give you a heads up on possible future discussions and to avoid any misunderstanding - we won't be replying on this forum regularly as we believe our actions to speak louder than our words. But we promise we'll keep an eye on and try to clarify when it seems our actions aren't enough anymore. :)


All the best,
Team Yggdrasil

Appreciative of you post, not many providers grace us with their presence / explanations so thank you for that.

However I strongly believe in these situations the opposite of this will works wonders in obtaining a secure and expanding player base.

Know you guys have much bigger "Fish to fry" but the odd post. maybe once a month, who knows will be an excellent and positive partial contribution to your existing business strategy :thumbsup:
 

lockinlove

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Jan 17, 2014
Location
Canada
Appreciative of you post, not many providers grace us with their presence / explanations so thank you for that.

However I strongly believe in these situations the opposite of this will works wonders in obtaining a secure and expanding player base.

Know you guys have much bigger "Fish to fry" but the odd post. maybe once a month, who knows will be an excellent and positive partial contribution to your existing business strategy :thumbsup:

Yeah no kidding. No one is ever too good for casinomeister. And we arent wanting or expecting them to just chime in on rigged threads. Join the forum and have some input and fun. This community represents your players so dont be scared.
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
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Location
Londonia
So basically the meter level doesn't affect the RTP, apart from when it does without fail every time :confused:

It must just be pure coincidence then
 

lockinlove

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Ok so I finished 30,000 spins on .75 bet and 30,000 spins on $7.50 and here are the results

In regards to the spins on .75 the rtp was 92.9% rtp

In regards to the spins on $7.50 the rtp was 94.1%

I started doing it on videoslots but for some reason the game no longer works there for me so I had to go elsewhere. Very annoying but got it done in the end

I made sure to use fresh board so there were no advantages from berserk meters starting sessions differently.

My conclusion on the game paying different when using different betsizes is that it does not matter and it plays the same. I know my sample size is small but I got a pretty good feel from it when actually paying attention.

I did my best to keep track of the berserk meters to add to my other study Im doing and will update all the stats when I reach 500,000 spins as that is my goal instead of 368.000
 

dunover

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That was a clever answer - the RTP 'doesn't change when the meters are nearly full'. We guessed that, and have not suggested the game's factory RTP is in any way changeable regardless of the meters. What we are saying is that WITHIN that 96.1% RTP the game has, the parse values are different somehow when the meters are nearly full. OK, say a slot has 80% of its RTP in the base game and 15% for the bonus rounds and 1% RTP allocated to a special random feature say like a Wildstorm so we get a 96% RTP. The spins in the 15% bonus part of the RTP will often be variable, with retriggers for example but overall over a large sample value the game will still pay around 15% in the features.

It seems like the cumulative triggering in the case of VGB, i.e. the spins preceding it (where players have observed a substantial drop) is somehow clumped together with the spins once the feature has started. In other words once a point has been reached on the Rage Meters this triggers a period of play INCLUDING the free games which may or may not pay back the cost of the poor spins preceding the Rage Meter trigger, i.e. the whole period of play forms the feature. This is the only way I can explain what is in my mind is a pretty concrete observation, not just on my behalf but that of other players.

When I did the original video review of this game I think I even mentioned it then, as it was completely obvious from the first time I played it that at a certain point the slot's performance dipped when near the Rage trigger. I have played it many time since in fun mode and nothing has made me change my view of what I observed. I honestly believe that if a number of us all tested this out and kept stats that there WOULD be a very positive correlation relating to what I and other players are suggesting. :thumbsup:
 

KasinoKing

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That was a clever answer - the RTP 'doesn't change when the meters are nearly full'. We guessed that, and have not suggested the game's factory RTP is in any way changeable regardless of the meters. What we are saying is that WITHIN that 96.1% RTP the game has, the parse values are different somehow when the meters are nearly full. OK, say a slot has 80% of its RTP in the base game and 15% for the bonus rounds and 1% RTP allocated to a special random feature say like a Wildstorm so we get a 96% RTP. The spins in the 15% bonus part of the RTP will often be variable, with retriggers for example but overall over a large sample value the game will still pay around 15% in the features.

It seems like the cumulative triggering in the case of VGB, i.e. the spins preceding it (where players have observed a substantial drop) is somehow clumped together with the spins once the feature has started. In other words once a point has been reached on the Rage Meters this triggers a period of play INCLUDING the free games which may or may not pay back the cost of the poor spins preceding the Rage Meter trigger, i.e. the whole period of play forms the feature. This is the only way I can explain what is in my mind is a pretty concrete observation, not just on my behalf but that of other players.

When I did the original video review of this game I think I even mentioned it then, as it was completely obvious from the first time I played it that at a certain point the slot's performance dipped when near the Rage trigger. I have played it many time since in fun mode and nothing has made me change my view of what I observed. I honestly believe that if a number of us all tested this out and kept stats that there WOULD be a very positive correlation relating to what I and other players are suggesting. :thumbsup:
That is an EXCEPTIONALLY good response! :thumbsup:
I hope the Yggdrasil rep sees fit to respond in more detail...

KK
 

lockinlove

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That was a clever answer - the RTP 'doesn't change when the meters are nearly full'. We guessed that, and have not suggested the game's factory RTP is in any way changeable regardless of the meters. What we are saying is that WITHIN that 96.1% RTP the game has, the parse values are different somehow when the meters are nearly full. OK, say a slot has 80% of its RTP in the base game and 15% for the bonus rounds and 1% RTP allocated to a special random feature say like a Wildstorm so we get a 96% RTP. The spins in the 15% bonus part of the RTP will often be variable, with retriggers for example but overall over a large sample value the game will still pay around 15% in the features.

It seems like the cumulative triggering in the case of VGB, i.e. the spins preceding it (where players have observed a substantial drop) is somehow clumped together with the spins once the feature has started. In other words once a point has been reached on the Rage Meters this triggers a period of play INCLUDING the free games which may or may not pay back the cost of the poor spins preceding the Rage Meter trigger, i.e. the whole period of play forms the feature. This is the only way I can explain what is in my mind is a pretty concrete observation, not just on my behalf but that of other players.

When I did the original video review of this game I think I even mentioned it then, as it was completely obvious from the first time I played it that at a certain point the slot's performance dipped when near the Rage trigger. I have played it many time since in fun mode and nothing has made me change my view of what I observed. I honestly believe that if a number of us all tested this out and kept stats that there WOULD be a very positive correlation relating to what I and other players are suggesting. :thumbsup:

Yes a good response for sure!

I have spoken to yggdrasil and they deny any and all of these claims which I am sure they will do when they see this post. Which is fine whatever.

Also, in regards to my earlier post about the rtp after 30,000 spins. One thing I was surprised to see is how close the rtp was. Obviously a coincidence but I fully expected the rtp to be different by 5-10%. Not just by over 1%. Pretty neat.
 

Solaris

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Hello


This is probably the slot I have lost most money on during my playing "career".
I have calculated roughly 10000€ in losses playing Vikings go Berzerk during two years.
The more you like a slot the more you will loose on it. Easy maths + some issues being
a slot player without any concern about what my future looks like now.

But the main point is that it is very easy for everyone that have actually played this slot to confirm
everything OP tells.
Everyone that I have talked to who played Vikings and where I read in forums knows how this slot works by experience.
Best strategy if you really really want to have a RTP above 30% is to use mostly bonus money and real money on higher bets to build rage meter up to 60-70%.
Rage meter build CHANGES when the rage meter is around this level.
When you are stasified you change to minimum bets and build the rest of the rage meter which takes so many spins you should just put it on auto spin and
full speed for about an hour or so. And then pray that the berzerk spins are accepatable.

I find it actually quite sickening that a representative of Yggdrasil says: "No it does not work that way as" as the OP states without
any technical proof. I can say, yes it does work that way I did above. Who will you believe?
Maybe the one that has lost a lot of money on this slot?
Anyone can talk about RTP is 90 whatever %, but in the end it does not matter. You won't win anything on this slot in the long run.
Just try it for a couple of weeks or months and you will understand.

Anyway, creds to the designers of the slot and the music. It was fun sometimes.
But too bad I messed up on this slot in my dreams of hitting Ragnarok on high bets.

Just an opinion from a very experienced Vikings go Berzerk player.
 
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