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Vikings Go Berserk study

Discussion in 'Slots Discussion' started by lockinlove, Mar 23, 2017.

    Mar 23, 2017
  1. lockinlove

    lockinlove Staring into the sun PABaccred

    Occupation:
    I work :D
    Location:
    Canada
    Hey everyone.

    As im sure some have you have read in some of my posts, I decided to do a study on this slot because when playing for real money I noticed a very obvious trend. I also spoke to other players on twitch who complained and made comments on the same thing I was noticing. There are still fresh complaints of this trend still being made by members on this forum.

    Hence why I started this in the first place.

    All of the data I collected, I have contacted yggdrasil by email and sent an email to the gaming commission that trancemonkey suggested since he stated if my data is correct, it's illegal. I have sent 3 emails to each in the past 5 weeks and I have not got a response at all from anyone.

    Is there someone else I can contact? Or maybe I need to hire an independent testing lab for legitimacy to my claim?

    At the beginning I was going to 1 million spins. I must admit I didnt come close to that goal. Mostly due to boredom and the fact the trend I noticed was the same over and over and it was clear nothing was going to change. So my study halted at 368,000 spins.

    Here is a break down of my study in short.

    35% of the play was done in real money mode while 65% was done with play money.

    Out of the 368,000 spins I did I was recording the RTP of the basegame from 0% to approx 85% of the berserk meter and then recording the remaining 15%.

    93% of the time the rtp would drop by a significant amount until the berserk was hit (example. The base game was paying 72,2% the entire time then It reaches a certain point and the rtp drops to 20.1%). The amount of chests and freespins dropped immensely. the character symbols became almost invisible that were needed to hit the berserk. Basically the game played completely different almost every single time. So now one of my questions is, if the game was designed to do this, why is there a 7% that the game didnt do this? Is the software designed in a specific way where the frequency is lowered? Is that even possible?

    Ive wanted others to test the game with me and I contacted a few people both on the forum and off to see if they would oblige so I could see their results but as I figured no one cared enough to bother with it lol.

    When doing this study I used this point as an approx marker or where the blue girls berserk meter is at where the slot would change right away and the rtp would decrease significantly

    Vikings Go Berserk study: Capture.jpg,Mar 23, 2017


    Any input, suggestions and advice is appreciated. I just dont want all that work that I did go to waste without at least some sort of explanation or conversation
     
  2. Mar 23, 2017
  3. goatwack

    goatwack enthused hangman CAG

    Occupation:
    Turns Tricks
    Location:
    Londonia
    I won't let your efforts go to waste and all the countless hours and money poured into it without a sufficient and accurate assessment:

    It's rigged to buggery.
     
  4. Mar 23, 2017
  5. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Funny how as time goes on, My time here at CM increases, We/I get more experienced each day etc etc I have noticed (including my own contributions :oops: ) that there are more and more of these "conspiracy theory" threads.

    When I first joined CM, I'd hardly see any, maybe one a month, if that. Now not a week goes by without one.

    What I say to this is it is a good thing and it seems more and more as if we were right all along.

    There is no smoke without fire and never do we see any input from the "accused". Software developers (or should that be software riggers) take the stance "Ignore them long enough and they will go away / be quiet"

    Well today my brothers and sisters we stand united, no more silence, no longer does the horse head on my pillow scare me, we will fight them on the beaches....

    I seriously predict in the next 2-3 years at the very longest something, maybe several things will come to light which will haunt the industry for a very long time to come!!!!!!!!
     
  6. Mar 23, 2017
  7. PaaskeDKnowUK

    PaaskeDKnowUK Always think positive CAG PABnoaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Clerk with shipping discounts worldwide
    Location:
    UnKnown
    Fully agree with you here. I have a feeling we will see something shocking about a couple of software providers even the big guns. That cheating has been going on. I could guess myself that some slots works on even under 50% rtp or something similar. So basically when some people moan oh this casino is cheating etc. NO its actually the software provider. We all know about rtg where rtp could be modified. Who says none of the big ones can cheat? Money makes people greedy. So surely its possible to change the switch so instead of 96% lets put it on 86% or something like this. Scary really.... :(

    In regards to Yggdrasil i have already heard people discuss a big noticeable change when u change bet amount. I have seen this myself seems to pay more on low bets and same kind of slots as the on in this thread you get more chests etc on low bets. As soon u up to £5 or more u dont see a lot. I have heard it many times bet size does not matter. But surely it does matter as if someone wins 1000x on a £100 bet or someone wins this on a £1. Then total amount given out is a lot more? For me despite i am a experienced gambler all this with rtp etc is still very confusing because you can have over 100% and still lose all your money lol

    PS and sorry for my post here some of it might sound daft or not give 100% sense as just got tired home from work. So not really gone through what i have written just done a quick post here :)
     
  8. Mar 23, 2017
  9. lockinlove

    lockinlove Staring into the sun PABaccred

    Occupation:
    I work :D
    Location:
    Canada
    Actually thats another reason I did this. Because so many people saying rigged this and rigged that. And of course they get shot down because they dont have any evidence or even bother to do it. Which i dont blame them its alot of damn work for free. My job has alot of dead time so I was able to do it and actually I had the game running in the back round alot anyways, it wasnt like I stared at it lol. And you can tell the people who say its rigged and are serious arent taken seriously and it usually resorts in insults being thrown around.

    So instead of me just saying yeah its rigged and then people saying "oh here goes that silly statement again" I decided to do the leg work so maybe it holds some water for once.

    Thats also the reason why I wanted others to join in so they could see how obvious the game changes at the same point almost every single time.

    The real question is, if its illegal why would yggdrasil make it so damn blatant. Any player who gives the slot a real go for a bit can see easily that the game is designed to reduce rtp at a certain point. I mean look at all the complaints about it from new and old members. And some make that complaint without even reading through the thread to see others already making these claims.


    If Yggdrasil would respond, i would share their response here where some of the greater minds could chime in. But they wont acknowledge me at all. And I wasnt rude in the slightest. I asked questions and simply asked for an explanation why they designed the game like this.

    So either they are ignoring me because they dont care and feel confident there is nothing wrong (which I feel is impossible) or they know there is a flaw and hope I go away lol.
     
  10. Mar 23, 2017
  11. lotusch

    lotusch Noob Webby webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Fraud & Underwriting Team VRP / YapStone
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    And me thinking I was tin foiling the crap out of myself. :D
    I never feel comfortable playing Riggedrassil slots until someone from their company comes forward and explains to us why their slots are not as bad as we think.. ;)
    I had it big big big time on Seasons & Golden Fish Tank.
    Thousands and thousands of spins and both above slots devoured my bankroll many times.

    I could be down let's say 300 quid on one of those slots, increase my bets and free spins seem just to be vanished.
    On GFT the scatters just dissapear.

    Glad I stopped playing their slots.

    I said it before,no use unless you have a serious large bankroll to cover for the losses.
     
  12. Mar 23, 2017
  13. BrianGhattas

    BrianGhattas Where's My Handpay?!?

    Occupation:
    Freelancer
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Rigdrasil and Rigged Tiger are pretty much the same. They play like lottery tickets and should not be listed as slots. Certainly I've had some good hits on both but these two companies release the most frustrating games you'll find online. As I said earlier, they are our future. As long as casinos take in their games, they are pretty much being given the green light to keep churning their garbage out.
     
  14. Mar 23, 2017
  15. lockinlove

    lockinlove Staring into the sun PABaccred

    Occupation:
    I work :D
    Location:
    Canada
    I actually posted this when I was in the midst of my study that the game seems to play different in regards to bet sizes. It was just something I thought mentally over time. My main bet size was .75 but the odd time id put it on $5 for a few thousand spins and noticed every single time the slot was ice cold. Now I have nothing to back this up and it could be I just caught it cold.

    Maybe I will do 100,000 spins on $5 and 100,000 spins on .50 and post my results just to see if there is any truth to this type of claim because its actually one thats been made many many times on here about various providers.

    Would be interesting and its easy to track because you can collect the rtp at the end of a certain amount of spins and dont need to watch it unlike the berserk meter where you did have to pay some attention when it would reach the marker
     
  16. Mar 23, 2017
  17. lockinlove

    lockinlove Staring into the sun PABaccred

    Occupation:
    I work :D
    Location:
    Canada
    Oh and here is a bit of humour.

    So when I would run bad on videoslots, Kenny or Dan would send my freespins on vikings go berserk. I was just like ok they must look at my history and think I like it or something cause its played so much.

    2 weeks ago Kenny from VIP gave me 50 freespins on it again and said "I see you like this game so here you go"

    so this time I responded and said "btw can you stop sending me freespins on this game I actually hate it and the reason why you see such a heavy play on it is because im doing a study"

    :D
     
  18. Mar 24, 2017
  19. slotter999

    slotter999 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Player
    Location:
    UK
    @lockinlove

    My guess is that a dataset 350k is statistically non-significant. But you've made some assertions and produced some figures but provided no evidence or explained your working. If you really are trying to call out a vendor publicly then I'd say this falls short of what is required. Show the world your data. Show the world your calculations. Let's see if others reach the same conclusion and prepare to be challenged.

    @jono777

    The reason you see so many 'conspiracy' threads is because you contribute so many of them.
     
  20. Mar 24, 2017
  21. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    Agreed that 350k of spins is a way to small a sample .... when testing games as we know they go through cycles of millions and millions of spins. Take the loved/hated Bonanza ,.. now unless the rep was lying to me (which i dont think he was at all) it took 2 years and 100s of hours of testing , going through multiple levels with the difference agencys to finally get licensed and that slot had to go through cycles of billions of spins before it was launched. Maybe not a popular comment im making here on this thread but time and again people come out with so called evidence of its rigged. Fact is nothing needs to be rigged - at all. No software company worth anything would risk a license in doing something illegal when they dont need to. Why ? Because in the end the maths of the game makes sure we all come out with less than we started.

    The conspiracy theories have always come to nothing and im calling this one now , that it will have the same result and lead nowhere.
     
  22. Mar 24, 2017
  23. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    Also as slotter said any "study" should publish its full factual data for others to see and then yes expect this to be challenged. Especially if trying to state that a company is doing something illegal. Thats a pretty hefty accusation as such and would need hard evidence to back up the "theory" simply typing results without historical data will only lead to an abundance of foil hats being distributed. If for example I was going to get someone to look at evidence i had found of a wrong doing, I would be expected to provide hard evidence for my case. Other wise it falls even before it starts.
     
  24. Mar 24, 2017
  25. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I think the answer is far simpler. 350K spins is actually quite a significant amount, as games I've done this on do pretty much hit RTP over that comparatively 'small' amount, obviously the higher the variance the more pronounced any deviations are.

    The game is saving RTP for the CUMULATIVELY TRIGGERED feature. It's no different to Tomb Raider 2 or especially Super Monopoly Money. SMM is a prime example of a slot that pays pennies and 'saves' pay outs for the big feature and that vile Bonanza does too, although due to the variance it can pay big wins in the base game unlike VGB.

    The developer will programme the math model around how much of the TRTP they want to allocate to the feature, and the higher this proportion is, the worse the base game plays. If you takes slots like IR they have approximately 78% base game, 14-15% bonus rounds and about 3-4% for the WD feature. The WD often pays well, whereas on TS2 the Shitstorm is well, shit because there's less RTP allocated to it.

    It's pretty obvious that VGB is using dynamic pools of outcomes in order to achieve the desired feature pays, or using a different reel set and parse values after a certain point on the meters. Whether this is against the rules or not I don't know, but I doubt it as cumulative features are perfectly OK.

    Now the important point is how long the play cycle needs to be to pay these features, and how much of the RTP is allocated to them. Obviously on games like IR the cycle is quite long and not really that noticeable in the base game before the big WD occurs, but if the game is designed to pay these cumulative 'pots' on a more regular basis like say TR2 and it seems VGB, then the win has to be paid for! I think that's what you are seeing. :thumbsup:
     
  26. Mar 24, 2017
  27. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Contribute to, NOT Start ;)
     
  28. Mar 24, 2017
  29. lockinlove

    lockinlove Staring into the sun PABaccred

    Occupation:
    I work :D
    Location:
    Canada
    I think its enough spins and features to tell there is a trend. If people here, mainly reps that work in this area or software providers state otherwise I can keep going. We have to remember this is a test to see if the game is weighted at certain points not an overall rtp test

    I was not aware of anything illegal nor did I think that until trancemonkey brought it to my attention. My study began way before then.

    This should be a fun and interesting topic not one where people take anything personal. I can already see there are some swipes being made at people. Lets not do that. :thumbsup:

    I have no vendetta against anyone here, casino's or software providers. Its simply something myself and others noticed so for once, Im actually going to do something about it (test it out) instead of making claims, assumptions or accusations. In the end if people decide there is nothing wrong. I have absolutely no problem with that at all. Im way up on slots so this isnt some bitter agenda. And this only relates to yggdrasil because this is where the most complaints come from in regards to software providers.

    Lets all have fun and post our thoughts.

    This is an example of part of the data collected of the first 50 berserk modes which took 68,713 spins to acquire. At first I thought I would cherry pick characters (because the red guy is very hard to get and takes a lot longer) but I decided against it and just went in order as they came. I will insert the rest and post it here and Im sorry I didnt have it ready before asking for people's thoughts and conversation. Sometimes I forget people need to see the data and not just take someones word.

    I do have the number of spins recorded too that it took to reach each berserk mode but I have to insert that data still. My intention was to see if yggdrasil was even interested before I did all the spreadsheet work because its ALOT of work to do. And I also had this on hand in case they said they were interested to see some data. I wanted to have something on hand to give them right away until I had time to input all the rest.

    Column C is the RTP between 0-85% of the berserk meter being filled. Column D is the remaining 15%.

    Column A and B are left empty because thats where I was going to put the amount of spins. I think its unnecessary since the rtp is what I am aiming at here. However, I think it may be important because people can say yeah its a smaller sample size the remaining 15%. Column D average spins is 600 spins. So that type of rtp for that many spins is just absolute killer on the bankroll.

    And im hoping next week to start the low bet vs large bet theory! But first I have to get all this data into spreadsheets. Just thought id give a taste of some since I already have it down and saved.

    Column D is when I recorded the RTP at the marker

    Vikings Go Berserk study: study 1.PNG,Mar 24, 2017

    Vikings Go Berserk study: study 2.PNG,Mar 24, 2017
     
  30. Mar 24, 2017
  31. miso

    miso Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    accountant
    Location:
    Ireland
    Yggdrasil slots work in mysterious ways. I have stopped playing all bar Cazino Zeppelin.

    I wouldn't say they're rigged but they are definitely programmed in a way that is not genuine or fair to the player.
    I really liked Seasons at the start but playing thousands of spins I noticed that it could go dozens of spins in Owl mode but when it changed to Deer season it was over as soon as possible. And back to Owl or Rabbit :mad:
     
  32. Mar 26, 2017
  33. BlaCGaming

    BlaCGaming Experienced Member

    Location:
    Germany

    Do I understand this correctly, slots that come out now were developed 1-2 years ago? :eek2:
     
  34. Mar 26, 2017
  35. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    Some of them yes ... and I know Bonanza was 2 years in the making. Something about working on the maths model to make it work so that the base game can keep your balance going and still allow for mega payouts in some
    of the FS rounds. The average hit supposedly for the FS being 1 in 450 but as we know 1 in 1500 is not uncommon on this slot. Im sure they are slots that are banged out in much less time

    such as the latest releases from MG ... just pull an old skin, add a few new icons for the symbols give it a new name on Friday and Monday release the slot :cool:
     
  36. Mar 26, 2017
  37. trancemonkey

    trancemonkey Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Games Producer
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This data is sadly meaningless. All it shows is the RTP of the game at certain levels of the berserk meter right? But without knowing how many games you spent in each section the data is meaningless and proves nothing.

    As I said in the other thread... If they are doing something dodgy they are in licence losing territory. Certainly they would be investigated by the UKGC. But so far I'm afraid I haven't seen any actual evidence that proves it one way or the other.

    While I agree you data makes it look suspicious, without a lot more information it proves nothing.

    350k is enough games on most slots to be a to get a good feel of the RTP but you could be quite a few % off the target. Depends on volatility.
     
  38. Mar 26, 2017
  39. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    just a point to note it shows my name for the data post above :confused: was not me ha ... not sure how that got there. This is lockinloves post not mine.... the quote seems to have got messed up ...
     

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