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ATTN: Casino Rep Videoslots / Gamstop - False Promises and Deposits Witheld

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by dkh09, Jun 12, 2018.

    Jun 12, 2018
  1. dkh09

    dkh09 Newbie member PABinit

    Location:
    UK
    I thought I would share my recent experience of Gamstop and Videoslots with everyone. Similar to the situation on the following thread: Casino vs GAMSTOP I have had a very similar issue. For the same reasons (compulsive gambling that got out of hand) I signed up to Gamstop knowing that the casinos that I played at were all signed up to the programme.


    Similar to the chap on the thread above, I received marketing emails from VS and the curious / compulsive side got the better of me; I tried to login and had no issues. Fast forward a couple of hours and I had deposited and lost £1,320.00 very quickly. No withdrawals.


    I then gain a sense of control and contact VS to understand why I could do this having SE via Gamstop; it’s important to note that I could not login to any of the other casinos at this stage, only VS.


    I then get a confirmation from VS after several hours stating that they have SE me (no explanation as to why this wasn’t done via Gamstop) and they will look into refunding my deposits for that day. I then chase for updates for the next 4 weeks and finally on the 3rd June I’m told that they have decided to refund the deposits made that day / since SE. Great news – well done VS. Here’s the email from VS:


    “Thank you for contacting our Support and I hope you are well.


    We apologize the for time this has taken and thanked for your patience.

    The deposits made after the self-exclusion will be fully refunded to you.

    Refund request will be processed shortly, as it's already sent to the department in charge.


    Should you have any questions or thoughts regarding our Casino you are warmly welcomed to contact us at any given time.

    I wish you have a lovely day xxxxx.”


    I cannot express how important this news was for me, without going into too much detail I was about to lose my home – so this news, coupled with my new start without online gambling was fantastic.


    Here’s where it gets bad.. So I follow up thanking VS for their ethical decision and ask when I should expect the refund of the deposits made. I then get told that it’s with the payment team etc etc for over a week. So I leave it a few days and this morning I get the following update:


    “I am contacting you regarding your request for a refund. The request has been rejected and we will not be refunding any deposited money.


    Should you disagree with our outcome, you may file a complaint to IBAS.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    This email is not visible to you. or by telephone 020 7347 5883.”

    Say what? Really?

    Clearly this is horrific news for me, especially after being told that I would be receiving the refund of all deposits on that particular day.

    Let's think of another scenario - would I have received let’s say a £5,000.00 withdrawal if the unthinkable happened on that day and I won? I very much doubt it, as their payments/security team would have checked with Gamstop and I would have had my account closed / deposits refunded.


    What do the guys/girls at Casinomeister think? Is this the behaviour of an accredited casino?

    Fair?
     
  2. Jun 12, 2018
  3. RichyJ75

    RichyJ75 Silly Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dogsbody and personal servant to my kids
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I must confess to being the original poster of the thread you refer to.

    I did find it worrying that although Videoslots are listed as a participating casino at GamStop, there is obviously a communication error between them and GamStop data especially as the other casino accounts had correctly blocked access. Unfortunately I do think it is a grey area as like you said, had you won, would they have confiscated it stating you should have been self excluded? I don't know.

    My circumstances were a bit different, so I didn't request or pursue a refund of the deposited amounts after the GamStop exclusion was put in place. Videoslots are a very good outfit and they did block my access as soon as I highlighted the issue. However, after all this time I would have hoped they would have dealt with these technical difficulties, otherwise they should not be listed as participating with GamStop so the player can contact them directly.
     
  4. Jun 12, 2018
  5. RichyJ75

    RichyJ75 Silly Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dogsbody and personal servant to my kids
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Sorry, just an after thought.

    I was informed by another casino which had kept an account open after GamStop registration that it was GamStop themselves who had failed to match the details at the casino, thus the account being kept open. It may be worthwhile contacting GamStop to get their input on this as it is their data returns to the casino which determines whether there is an active self exclusion in place.

    I have a feeling that the blame may well be passed between companies, so could be a tough one to work with. Keep us informed though of any progress you have.
     
  6. Jun 12, 2018
  7. dkh09

    dkh09 Newbie member PABinit

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks Richy, sorry to hear of your issues around this mate. Not exactly what you need after making progress in putting gambling behind you.

    To address the point around the details held at Gamstop / Vs - this has been checked and everything is identical.

    On a serious note - if I had won I think we all know that I would have been denied the winnings or had my deposits refunded (or would I based on the above?); how is that legal? I don’t hold any faith in IBAS from what I’ve read.

    As the amount is below £5,000.00 I am able to raise a small claims with the county court - I’m not sure what entity this would be raised against; Videoslots Limited or Panda Media who my bank are sure this should be lodged against.

    Any advice greatly appreciated.
     
  8. Jun 12, 2018
  9. nutnut

    nutnut 30 day suspension - trollish behavior

    Occupation:
    IP consultant
    Location:
    england
    Whether Gamstop or VS at fault or both 100% they should refund the deposits. Fact they said they would then did a UTURN is even more of a disgrace. Usually I'd be harsh on players going back to gambling KNOWING they're not allowed, but this software was in place to stop this and failed so the player is not at fault.
     
  10. Jun 12, 2018
  11. SpinUk

    SpinUk Senior Member MM PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Marketing
    Location:
    London
    Gamstop and VS will have a service level agreement between them on liability. You probably won’t ever get to see this, but it will exist. The important thing is that this liability seperate to you will exist.

    As it stands I would put pressure on both of them - ask for a detailed description of the failure here and I would request a subject access request from both which will detail all the actions done in relation to you and the SE.

    Once you got that time to send notice to proceed letters.

    On who to address it to, tbh it doesn’t matter particularly however I would go for the high entity of Panda Media.

    It won’t get to court, I think someone is trying their luck here.
     
  12. Jun 12, 2018
  13. dkh09

    dkh09 Newbie member PABinit

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the responses guys.

    I think it's fair to give VS an opportunity to respond to this before progressing this further in the public domain as there are clearly some decent people there i.e. Dan & the team that agreed to the refund.

    @Dan.Videoslots would you please look into this?
     
  14. Jun 12, 2018
  15. LadyJelena

    LadyJelena CM Account Manager Staff Member CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Account Manager @ Casinomeister
    Location:
    Serbia
    Hey they're looking into this :)
     
    maxd likes this.
  16. Jun 12, 2018
  17. Dan.Videoslots

    Dan.Videoslots Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Games Manager
    Location:
    Malta
    Hello everyone,

    I would like to start with an apology for the way this situation was handled.

    The issue here comes from Gamstop going out with information that their system was enabled and working at Videoslots, something that we were not informed about nor was technically ready for. Currently, a request to self-exclude on GAMSTOP will not automatically remove you from receiving gambling marketing material, so the e-mails you received might have gone out even if the Gamstop exclusion had been successfully executed, but we never received the information that the account was blocked so the deposits could be done.
    During our investigation of this case, we were in discussions with Gamstop but their terms and conditions state that it is a breach to try to log in to an account they should have blocked. This means that they have declined the request for the refund we made.
    We are working on improvements to make sure this issue will not reoccur and I hope that there will not be any further problems between Gamstop and us in the future. The best way to handle this now is for you to contact Gamstop direct and talk to them.

    Br,
    Daniel.
     
  18. Jun 12, 2018
  19. mimi26

    mimi26 Meister Member

    Occupation:
    nurse
    Location:
    uk

    Surely this 'breach' of terms and conditions should have came to light BEFORE you notified the customer they would get a refund, and tbh I think its a bit of a shitty clause to add, the failure was on Gamstop and Videoslots side.
     
    Mouche12 and Borgie like this.
  20. Jun 12, 2018
  21. theapple

    theapple IR hates apples

    Occupation:
    i work... slave labor sort of work. like most of u
    Location:
    far far away
    wow

    just wow

    so problem gamers should pretend their accounts are closed and thats the final solution? Seriously?

    whats the point in having gamstop at all then?

    Surely if you are aware this thing isnt working, you should pull out and not be a part of Gamstop until its actually working properly, no? Right now people who use Gamstop are being able to play and loose money, but they cant actually win?

    I think VS is THE casino all others should follow and you guys are the best in the business right now but this is just scandalous and shouldnt be allowed to happen.
     
    sassa, Mouche12, goatwack and 3 others like this.
  22. Jun 12, 2018
  23. dkh09

    dkh09 Newbie member PABinit

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for your response, Dan. I would like to break down your reply if I may:

    "The issue here comes from Gamstop going out with information that their system was enabled and working at Videoslots, something that we were not informed about nor was technically ready for" - this is between Videoslots and Gamstop, i.e. irrelevant in this scenario and certainly not my fault!

    "Currently, a request to self-exclude on GAMSTOP will not automatically remove you from receiving gambling marketing material" - the marketing emails are not of concern, it was just a coincidence.

    "so the e-mails you received might have gone out even if the Gamstop exclusion had been successfully executed, but we never received the information that the account was blocked so the deposits could be done." - again surely this is between Videoslots and Gamstop? The fact of the matter is that I was able to make deposits. You are essentially allowing deposits to be made by a self-excluded player in retrospect by not refunding the deposits. In addition, you then blocked my account when I queried this (I didn't ask you to block me, just queried) - so that in itself is an admission that you have the information from Gamstop to exclude me.

    "During our investigation of this case, we were in discussions with Gamstop but their terms and conditions state that it is a breach to try to log in to an account they should have blocked. This means that they have declined the request for the refund we made." - I assume you are referring to Gamstop's terms (not Videoslots) as per the following:

    "You agree not to attempt to register new gambling accounts, log in to any of your existing accounts, or in any other way try to circumvent GAMSTOP's mechanisms for the duration of your self-exclusion" - I did not try to circumvent any mechanism of Gamstop, I checked if I was SE from Videoslots and I wasn't... I was able to deposit lots in a short period of time.

    "We are working on improvements to make sure this issue will not reoccur and I hope that there will not be any further problems between Gamstop and us in the future. The best way to handle this now is for you to contact Gamstop direct and talk to them." I agree that you need to address this issue asap to avoid further public embarrassment and brand damage. I found you via CM and so will many others (after seeing similar threads of course). With regards to trying to claim this amount back from Gamstop.. absolutely not - unless they have the £1,320.00? If so I will. But Videoslots have this in their bank.

    Dan - none of this is directed at you personally as you're clearly a very helpful chap.

    Is this really worth £1,320.00 to Videoslots ?

    Am I being unreasonable? Perhaps if I hadn't been told that the refund was being issued. But I was told I was getting the refund and I then get the runa
     
    Mouche12 and Borgie like this.
  24. Jun 12, 2018
  25. Dan.Videoslots

    Dan.Videoslots Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Games Manager
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi,

    I think you are misunderstanding the situation. There have not been any issues on our side. GameStop published the incorrect information about us supporting GameStop. We did not support GameStop at the time.

    As this is an error from their side, you need to get in contact with them.

    Br,
    Daniel.
     
    theapple and Tirilej like this.
  26. Jun 12, 2018
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is pure BS. The whole point of having Gamstop software is that compulsive gamblers lack the willpower not to log into their casino accounts or create new ones. Gamstop are effectively hiding behind BS terms and conditions that should be getting enforced by the Gamstop software, a get out clause for their own failures.

    Whether or not Gamstop are prepared to reimburse the casino is irrelevant, this is an agreement between the casino and Gamstop, nothing to do with the player. As this is a UK player, the UKGC rules apply, and one of these is the principle that if a casino allows a compulsive gambler, especially a self excluded one, to deposit and play, the casino MUST refund the deposits. This is not a discretionary rule, it is an absolute obligation. Further, the UKGC may be minded to issue fines for these technical failures.

    It has been made infinitely worse by the casino initially obeying the rules set by UKGC and telling the player that they have been excluded and that the deposits would be refunded, and then dragging their feet for weeks before saying they won't be refunded.

    The casino should leave the player out of this dispute, refunding the deposits and then threatening Gamstop with legal action for making the claim that Gamstop was "live" at VS when it wasn't.

    Marketing emails are a critical factor when it comes to pushing a compulsive gambler over the edge, so they SHOULD be stopped by self exclusion via Gamstop. I believe the UKGC also hold the view that marketing emails must not be sent to an excluded player, and have even issued fines for this kind of lapse.

    From all of this, it seems that Gamstop is about as useful as air conditioning on a motorcycle.
     
  28. Jun 12, 2018
  29. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    My guess is there is some insurance policy between gamstop and casinos that says something like "if you don't tell us you will pay" and gamstop says "if they login you will pay". :rolleyes:

    The sure thing is all casinos should make sure this works perfectly, otherwise they cause damage and invite trouble.

    BTW, I disagree with the OP that "it is admission that they knew", but at the same time the miscommunication or misunderstanding or whatever between gamstop and the casino has nothing to do with the player. The casino refunds the player and if the casino has a problem with gamstop they can solve it anyway they want.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    Mouche12, bebo67 and Borgie like this.
  30. Jun 12, 2018
  31. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    "You agree not to attempt to register new gambling accounts, log in to any of your existing accounts, or in any other way try to circumvent GAMSTOP's mechanisms for the duration of your self-exclusion"

    WOW!! For real!? :eek::eek:
    Gamstop has a term that says that an addicted gambler will not try to gamble!?:axeman2::axeman:

    It is like having a health insurance with a term that you will never get sick, or a life insurance with a term that you will never die!

    Of course I get it in cases of fraud but that is the only thing it should say. Something like "no refund in case you try to deposit in new or old acc. with fake details".
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  32. Jun 12, 2018
  33. Mr Wild

    Mr Wild Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Online Casino
    Location:
    Malta
    GameStop Terms & Conditions -> You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Its not so protective for the player as one could think.


    "Your Responsibility
    You understand that self-exclusion using GAMSTOP is intended to be an aid to help you manage your use of online gambling websites. It is not intended to function as a replacement for willpower, is not foolproof and we cannot guarantee that it will always result in your being denied access to gambling websites.

    Your self-exclusion using GAMSTOP will be most effective if you do not try to work around the exclusion measures GAMSTOP has put in place. You agree not to attempt to register new gambling accounts, log in to any of your existing accounts, or in any other way try to circumvent GAMSTOP's mechanisms for the duration of your self-exclusion. You are entirely responsible for any actions you take designed to circumvent any self-exclusion registered with GAMSTOP.
    "
     
    Mouche12 likes this.
  34. Jun 12, 2018
  35. pinnit2014

    pinnit2014 Senior Member MM PABinit

    Occupation:
    Work with figures, other audit-y things
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Pretty shrewd business model - pretend you’ve developed a universal system for gambling addiction, tell people not to test it by logging in, to prevent it being discovered that you’ve basically built a car with no engine.
     
  36. Jun 12, 2018
  37. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    When did you start supporting gamstop?
    If you didn't support them at the time, why was the customer told you would refund his deposits, then you refused based on what gamstop said? What has it to do with them if you weren't linked with them at the time?

    Regarding promo emails, am I reading it right that if a customer self excludes using gamstop then you can still send them promo emails?
     
    Mouche12 likes this.
  38. Jun 12, 2018
  39. Dan.Videoslots

    Dan.Videoslots Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Games Manager
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi,

    We started to work with GameStop at the beginning of May.

    If a customer had requested self-exclusion with us and managed to play anyways, he would receive a refund. However, during an internal investigation, it was clarified that the self-exclusion hadn't been requested with us. As customer referred to GameStop, he was advised to contact their support as at the time it wasn't supported by us.
    GameStop does not inform us when customers self-exclude. We only get that information when a customer tries to login with us. At that point, we can mark the customer as self-excluded and remove the customer from our lists.

    Br,
    Daniel.
     

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