Video Poker - where do you guys get the patience to play???

[ergopro]

All Aces (Microgaming), single and multi-hand...love that game...

 

[DaveG39]

Test paytables/variances @ vpgenius.com. Generate a "optimal strategy" chart using either TomSki's generator (if possible) or vpgenious. My personal favorite @ Inetbet is Pick'Em (low variance and relatively high RTP paytable).

 

[GrandMaster]

You would think that long time experienced veterans like GrandMaster above by now have seen and heard it all.

Players have exhausted every avenue available to them trying to find out what should be the most basic and available information about online Video Poker and Black Jack. These endless requests have fallen on deaf ears. It would appear and one could only conclude that based on the silence from requests, that online casinos prefer us not to know the facts about these games denying us the opportunity to apply the correct strategy. This uncertainty and lack of what should be common knowledge for all, only benefits and enhances the casinos bottom line.

Instead of long time veterans like GrandMaster, advocates, and affiliates, combining efforts in any attempts to help the players; they prefer to deny the obvious, attempting to discredit all efforts and experiences by players accusing them of ranting. What GrandMaster says above is the perfect example and common practices being used to help the casinos remain silent and continue having their way with us.

I recorded my at MG for several years. My results, the proportion of win/loss/draw in blackjack, the distribution of final hands in VP are well within the expected range and I am ahead at both blackjack and VP. My experience just does not support your claims.

 

[hitobito2005]

Based on what I highlighted above in your last response, I could only assume that either your not reading my posts, or insist on trying to ignore what should be a common obtainable knowledge answer to my question and trying to turn my simple request into a rigged rant, or never played Video Poker or BJ therefore you don't have any idea what I'm talking about, or sadly it has become obvious your comprehension skills are not up to par in which case I feel I owe you an apology.

You're saing that card distributions are not based on a random 52-card deck. You're saying that the output you see is based on an underlying slot machine and does not reflect true probabilities.

That is the same as saying that the game = rigged.

I've played many hundreds of thousands of hands of blackjack and VP online and my results are well within expectation.

 

[Tengil]

You're saing that card distributions are not based on a random 52-card deck. You're saying that the output you see is based on an underlying slot machine and does not reflect true probabilities.

That is the same as saying that the game = rigged.

I've played many hundreds of thousands of hands of blackjack and VP online and my results are well within expectation.

It doesnt necessarily mean that the game would be random if your results are within expectation in the long run.

Not saying that any certain softwares BJ would be non random still producing "fair" results in the long run, but wouldnt be surprised if some smaller softwares would get caught.
Chartwell has got its fair share of accusations of behaving like that.

 

[4 of a kind]

I recorded my at MG for several years. My results, the proportion of win/loss/draw in blackjack, the distribution of final hands in VP are well within the expected range and I am ahead at both blackjack and VP. My experience just does not support your claims.

The fact that your ahead in both Video Poker and Blackjack after years of playing online is a good thing.There are also slot players like Kasino King who are still ahead after years of playing and continue to clean house. I say "cheers" and wish nothing but endless success for both of you and all other winners.

Just because I think Video Poker and Black Jack are slot machines certainly don't mean there won't be winners. Like slot machines if RTP's were lowered in card games, that doesn't mean the randoms or other jackpots or royal flushes won't be won anymore. All it means is not as often. There are slot players that hit two randoms in one day and several within a month. Yet there are others that never hit one in over a decade of playing. There are players that made first time deposits and won 6 figure jackpots, many we read about here. Years ago I even hit 3 royal flushes for 20K each on 3 different poker games over a 4 day period.

This whole conversation is not intended to be an argument about you or anyone else supporting what I or anyone else support.

I'm not debating who is lucky and who isn't. I'm not debating or accusing online casinos of cheating or not. I'm not debating or accusing online casinos of any conspiracy's. I'm not debating or accusing online casinos of being rigged or magic kill buttons.

It is common knowledge that Video Poker and Black Jack when being played from computer software, can be programed to play from two different platforms. Random 52 card deck draw with expected probabilities, or pre-determined house edge percentages like slot machines.

Las-Vegas (Nevada) all Video Poker machines are random 52 card deck draws. Atlantic City on the other hand their Video Poker is based on pre-determined house edge games. (slot machines)

Both are legal and both are fair. Regardless which style of game is being used the house will always win in the long run.

The point I'm getting at is if I'm in Vegas or Atlantic City playing Video Poker, I know the proper strategy to apply in order to get the most action for my money. This information for the Video Poker player is easy to obtain. It became common and open knowledge for most, and willingly offered to anyone that requests it.

Mr. GrandMaster I never asked or care if you or anyone else for that matter agree with me or not.

All I want to fn know is which platform online casinos are using with these games, so when I play them I could apply the right strategy. Without this information it would behoove any professional Video Poker or Black Jack player to waste their time.

Online casinos refusing with relentless vigilance to come forward with this vital and what should be free and willing information, only leaves the players with their own conclusions.

Not all players are like GrandMaster or Kasino King who might know when their stars are aligned, or if they need to wear a necklaces with a horse shoe hanging from it to constantly win. When it comes to Video Poker and Black Jack, some of us just know how to play against the statistics and probabilities.

 

[4 of a kind]

You're saing that card distributions are not based on a random 52-card deck. You're saying that the output you see is based on an underlying slot machine and does not reflect true probabilities.

That is the same as saying that the game = rigged.

I've played many hundreds of thousands of hands of blackjack and VP online and my results are well within expectation.

Here you go with the rigged crap derailing accusations again. Can you please remove that word from your future posts in this thread? Maybe I could help by recommending you re-read my posts. It's easy to misinterpret points with a quick glance.

 

[hitobito2005]

So you're saying that online blackjack is actually a slot machine, but it still returns 99.5% - the same as truly random dealt blackjack?

But perhaps the strategy is different to reach the same RTP?

If this is what you mean, there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If you mean that RTP is fiddled by reducing the RTP of the underlying slot machine, then

tr.v. rigged, rig·ging, rigs
[...]
5. To manipulate dishonestly for personal gain: rig a prizefight; rig stock prices.

 

[4 of a kind]

So you're saying that online blackjack is actually a slot machine, but it still returns 99.5% - the same as truly random dealt blackjack?

But perhaps the strategy is different to reach the same RTP?

If this is what you mean, there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If you mean that RTP is fiddled by reducing the RTP of the underlying slot machine, then

tr.v. rigged, rig·ging, rigs
[...]
5. To manipulate dishonestly for personal gain: rig a prizefight; rig stock prices.

I don't care what anyone says about you Liquid...

"I love ya man"

 

[hitobito2005]

Or you could just reply to my post...

 

[GrandMaster]

Online casinos refusing with relentless vigilance to come forward with this vital and what should be free and willing information, only leaves the players with their own conclusions.

Not all players are like GrandMaster or Kasino King who might know when their stars are aligned, or if they need to wear a necklaces with a horse shoe hanging from it to constantly win. When it comes to Video Poker and Black Jack, some of us just know how to play against the statistics and probabilities.

Ecogra requires that representations of physical devices such as cards or dice have the same probabilities as the physical devices, so if you play at an ecogra approved casino, you will get a fair game or Andrew Beveridge will refund your money.

 

[nisosbar]

Ecogra requires that representations of physical devices such as cards or dice have the same probabilities as the physical devices

Do you have a cite for this?

 

[GrandMaster]

Do you have a cite for this?

Yes. Look at the eGAP requirements.

 

[4 of a kind]

Or you could just reply to my post...

I've tried in my earnest not to entertain your attempts in derailment, instead politely have tried several times to get you back on track and to focus on just the one question I would like answered. I also would like to add that I might have bit through my tongue while attempting to remain civil in responding to your obvious alternative motivations or agendas. If you don't mind me asking are you by any chance an online casino affiliate, or are you seriously disabled with some of your motor skills?

I don't care about my personal results, yours or anyone elses. I don't care about my asumptions, yours or anyone elses. I don't care about my conclusions, yours or anyone elses.

With one last attempt all I'm am asking is what style of software platform is being used for online Video Poker and Black Jack? Random 52 card draw with expected probabilities, or pre-determined house edge advantage. (slots)

Obviously, you don't have this answer and unless you could find out or know where I could find this information out for fact, maybe you should find another thread to derail.

 

[GrandMaster]

I have answered your question above for ecogra approved casinos.

 

[4 of a kind]

Ecogra requires that representations of physical devices such as cards or dice have the same probabilities as the physical devices, so if you play at an ecogra approved casino, you will get a fair game or Andrew Beveridge will refund your money.

Are the same probabilities as physical play being achieved using random draw or pre-determined house edge percentages?

Also what would Mr. Beveridge consider irrefutable evidence that would warrant a refund to a player? Would a player have to risk millions of dollars playing millions of hands to justify a refund? Anything less would be written off as inconclusive or the good ole bad luck line.

Apparently Mr. Beveridge's guarantee is also evading the question, knowing damn well it's virtually impossible to prove, and is just a statement hoping to convince players to continue playing these games with the wrong strategy's.

Once again:

What style of software platform is being used for online Video Poker and Black Jack? Random 52 card draw with expected probabilities, or pre-determined house edge advantage. (slots)

 

[hitobito2005]

I just want to clarify what you are saying:

What style of software platform is being used for online Video Poker and Black Jack? Random 52 card draw with expected probabilities, or pre-determined house edge advantage. (slots)

Suppose it's pre-determined (slot based), are you suggesting that the RTP is less than it should be on VP and BJ games?

I'm asking because if the games are slot machines but with the same return and variance as a true 52-card draw game, it would be difficult (impossible?) to illustrate a difference between the two without detailed analysis of card distributions. Either way, the results the player experiences would be the same.

If you're saying that the RTP is lowered however, it is easy to prove whether or not this is happening in only a few tens of thousand hands for BJ.

I don't think i'm derailing the thread here, just asking for clarification because otherwise your question can't be answered:

what would Mr. Beveridge consider irrefutable evidence that would warrant a refund to a player?

 

[4 of a kind]

No Liquid I'm not implying or suggesting anything one way or the other.

If only just for me, by knowing which platform was being used up front, I would approach the games with different money management and gaming strategy.

This information should be available for anyone that asks. That's it, nothing else. That's all I want to know. I don't care if random draw is 98% and they are using pre-determined house edge (slot versions) set at 100% even better then random.

I JUST WANT TO KNOW.....

 

[GrandMaster]

What style of software platform is being used for online Video Poker and Black Jack? Random 52 card draw with expected probabilities, or pre-determined house edge advantage. (slots)

Read what I wrote.

 

[4 of a kind]

Ecogra requires that representations of physical devices such as cards or dice have the same probabilities as the physical devices, so if you play at an ecogra approved casino, you will get a fair game or Andrew Beveridge will refund your money.

Read what I wrote.

I did read what you wrote. I'm very happy for Ecogra casino customers.

Now back to my question???