Video Poker not random?

A spreadsheet tracking results? Are you for real LOL! What? track the next draw discard and result x 20? This is VP. You have to keep moving. I'm not referencing slot machines.

I was right ...
 
Precisely. The casino(s) can't lose... Despite this cast-iron fact, I keep going back to it :D
You are correct... the casinos can't lose...in the long run...
That is why "stack management" is so crucial. If your ever going to walkaway with money, you have to play smart... not just play a lot... ;)
 
I cannot believe that . If this is really happening often it would be the proof that the game is not random .

Can you post links to other forums where people talk about that ?

I wonder why you are folding a pair of jacks or better and how often (lets say 100 times throwing away a pair of jacks or better ) you get the same after folding ????
Thanks for posting - I was thinking the exact same thing.
This thread has got completely sidetracked to a discussion about RTG randomness, which though interesting in itself, it is no where near as interesting as the experience of the player in the opening post IMO!

Any chance of getting this thread back on track people?
Reminder:
Hello all, i found something strange past the years i been playing, but i have till now ignored this,

You see in video poker at least (Netent) if you get say 2 jacks, if you throw them away you will get jacks or better anyway, how can this be random?

Just play the minimum and try it for your self if you dont trust me.

I tested this on RTG and i got the same result, i folded the 222 and got 333, but this happens almost all the time on Netent.

I searched on internett and found lot of people saying exactly what i mean. so the video poker is like slot machines now?

So the machine thinks : i will give him back his bets no matter what?
 
This is an interesting topic to me, and I agree with KK that it would be great if we could get substantive arguments regarding game fairness.

However, it seems that every claim that this is the case uses nothing but anecdotes or how a game "feels". These both, to me, appear to be nothing more than a positive feedback loop of sorts, where players disregard their winning streaks and focus solely on the losing streaks to make a pseudo-argument. Heck, I'm guilty of making accusations in my head when this happens. It's just the way the brain is wired. We seem to be conditioned against skeptical reasoning.

Nonetheless, I don't think that it's outside of the realm of possibility that the games are rigged. However, the burden of proof lies in the hands of the accusers, and I've failed to see any. With counter-evidence such as CSVs of play history and the fact that big names (such as Michael Shackleford [the Wizard of Odds]) have contributed to the creation and testing of the majority of online gaming software, complainants of game fairness need to be using the same mathematical rigor to prove their point.

While I'm not up to testing this hypothesis at this time, I would like to throw this bit in. We are all fully aware that Slotland's "Jacks or Better" game is rigged. The fact that it is a glorified slot machine is made clear in its rules. However, the way the RTP is controlled (in free play mode) is apparently not the same as it is in a land-based VLT. That is to say, I threw away a pair of kings and lost the hand. I admit that this was in freeplay mode, and if someone has evidence to show that it uses VLT-style RTP control in real money play, that would be nice to know.

If anyone is up to running some tests, might I suggest screen recording software. This would help in proving that paying hands, when thrown away, produce an abnormal amount of equally-paying hands.
 
You see in video poker at least (Netent) if you get say 2 jacks, if you throw them away you will get jacks or better anyway, how can this be random?


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The link is for NetEnt VP at Nordicbet. Those who want to try will quickly see that the OP is wrong.

Yeah, it will of course happen. Because it is random. But it does not happens "almost every time".
 
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The link is for NetEnt VP at Nordicbet. Those who want to try will quickly see that the OP is wrong.

Yeah, it will of course happen. Because it is random. But it does not happens "almost every time".

Thanks. I just cancelled a winning pair countless times and not once got another winning pair as a result.
I wouldn't do it for real money though because, well... that would be stupid, wouldn't it? :oops:
 
RTG

"Software provider also offering back-end casino management. The most profitable online casino solution on the net"

from Wiki
The company indicates that operators are able to choose between payout settings for their slots [8] and video poker games.(9)

links no longer active from rtg website

Old / Expired Link

Old / Expired Link

my quote
"seems to contradict claims from many casinos that they have no control over the performance of video poker games and that it serves no purpose or is in their best interest to do so." quote from Bodog and Club World



A quote from Online Casino Hero

Video poker machine, whether online or land-based, do not run “hot” or “cold.” If you hit a Royal Flush, your chances of getting one on the next play are as high as any other time.

If you’re going to play video poker online, take a little time and find the casinos with the best payouts. Most will be very comparable, but you should also keep things like sign-up bonuses in mind.

The cards in video poker are chosen at random. Don’t listen to anyone who says the games are rigged; they don’t know what they’re talking about.

With perfect play, video poker is one of the few games where the house edge can be negated.

" oh really"? I may not play optimally, but based on the above quote, I should have been able to play for many hours after hitting (3) 4 oaks in about a half hour friday night doubling my stake at Club World (yes rainmaker another whine and yes I had just touted Club World earlier in day). The RTP was performing nicely for another hour as it should at 95-99%, rolling down 35% from peak to 10-15% below peak etc. Than I hit the the 3rd one and it was over, a few full houses thrown in on the way down, another disaster.

Where they get you is curtailing 3 oaks which occur when the RTP is adjusted either by RTG itself on behalf of its customer or by the casino even during the current gaming session. It's also obvious by the change in card selection. After adjusting the payout to below 75% or less, you will see often just one face card on the draw and strings of other garbage during the session.

I still believe there is a VIRTUAL LOTTERY TERMINAL component to RTG software. Where if all the big wins are hit over a period of time they shut down to accumulate again. Big wins are also manufactured which adds to the experience. This is evident by 4 oaks and straight flushes on the draw (so rare) which you can get on RTG.

Bottom line RTG is sketchy, its VP is not truly random. You cannot play for a three hour period even with the proper bankroll for the denomination of choice in comparison to land based casinos.

Also they know they possess a virtual monopoly over the US market. Pretty much the only option. Vegas Tech? Another story altogether. At least with RTG you win some before they flip the switch and take it all.
 
RTG

"Software provider also offering back-end casino management. The most profitable online casino solution on the net"

from Wiki
The company indicates that operators are able to choose between payout settings for their slots [8] and video poker games.(9)

links no longer active from rtg website

Old / Expired Link

Old / Expired Link

my quote
"seems to contradict claims from many casinos that they have no control over the performance of video poker games and that it serves no purpose or is in their best interest to do so." quote from Bodog and Club World



A quote from Online Casino Hero

Video poker machine, whether online or land-based, do not run “hot” or “cold.” If you hit a Royal Flush, your chances of getting one on the next play are as high as any other time.

If you’re going to play video poker online, take a little time and find the casinos with the best payouts. Most will be very comparable, but you should also keep things like sign-up bonuses in mind.

The cards in video poker are chosen at random. Don’t listen to anyone who says the games are rigged; they don’t know what they’re talking about.

With perfect play, video poker is one of the few games where the house edge can be negated.

" oh really"? I may not play optimally, but based on the above quote, I should have been able to play for many hours after hitting (3) 4 oaks in about a half hour friday night doubling my stake at Club World (yes rainmaker another whine and yes I had just touted Club World earlier in day). The RTP was performing nicely for another hour as it should at 95-99%, rolling down 35% from peak to 10-15% below peak etc. Than I hit the the 3rd one and it was over, a few full houses thrown in on the way down, another disaster.

Where they get you is curtailing 3 oaks which occur when the RTP is adjusted either by RTG itself on behalf of its customer or by the casino even during the current gaming session. It's also obvious by the change in card selection. After adjusting the payout to below 75% or less, you will see often just one face card on the draw and strings of other garbage during the session.

I still believe there is a VIRTUAL LOTTERY TERMINAL component to RTG software. Where if all the big wins are hit over a period of time they shut down to accumulate again. Big wins are also manufactured which adds to the experience. This is evident by 4 oaks and straight flushes on the draw (so rare) which you can get on RTG.

Bottom line RTG is sketchy, its VP is not truly random. You cannot play for a three hour period even with the proper bankroll for the denomination of choice in comparison to land based casinos.

Also they know they possess a virtual monopoly over the US market. Pretty much the only option. Vegas Tech? Another story altogether. At least with RTG you win some before they flip the switch and take it all.

Can someone please pass the tin foil hat....
 
IIRC Hero was a crooked casino and lied to not pay a player and they had their license revoked.

You can tell your VP pay by looking at the paytable right before your eyes. Compare the same game on several RTG casinos and you just might find a full pay machine.

I don't know how they adjust slots but I'm sure somebody else here does.
 
....then without that or playlogs you are just guessing. We always tend to remember the bad things over the good things, and it might surprise you if you were to keep such records.

Anyway, the part I don't get is that one minute you say Bodog is rigged (because they tamper with the source code), and the minute you talk about how you're still playing there. :what: Sorry, but it doesn't give your theory much teeth if you don't really believe it yourself.


I continue because I hope I am wrong. Unfortunately, I've had to lose more money to prove my theory correct. I admit, who complains about the "gifts" or winning streaks? My point is you will not be able to build a pot from those winnings and continue to play indefinitely. Winners are targeted... The only solution is to cash out. Even then if you re deposit they will work to take back the cash out. Its not as if you are able to hide online. The administrator's on duty see you log in and I'm sure certain accounts are flagged.
 
IIRC Hero was a crooked casino and lied to not pay a player and they had their license revoked.

You can tell your VP pay by looking at the paytable right before your eyes. Compare the same game on several RTG casinos and you just might find a full pay machine.

I don't know how they adjust slots but I'm sure somebody else here does.


I'm not talking about the paytable. You do know the difference between RTP and the pay out table right?
 
I'm not talking about the paytable. You do know the difference between RTP and the pay out table right?

The only way to adjust a VP machine is through the paytable. The RTP is stated right before your eyes if you know how to read a VP paytable. The RTP is not adjustable except through a change in the paytable. Anything else would be crooked if it wasn't clearly stated that you were playing a slot machine. I'm sure you wouldn't have been the first to notice it.
 
I'm not talking about the paytable. You do know the difference between RTP and the pay out table right?

There is no difference if the game is honest.

Stop posting here and call 1-800-GAMBLER. You have a problem. Admitting it is the first step.
 
There is no difference if the game is honest.

Stop posting here and call 1-800-GAMBLER. You have a problem. Admitting it is the first step.

that's not nice. I'm always taken aback when one online gambler accuses another online gambler of having a "gambling problem".

we all have problems to varying degrees, and some of our problems involve gambling;
but one heroin user calling out another is just not good form (even if the other user happens to use heroin less "responsibly")
 
that's not nice. I'm always taken aback when one online gambler accuses another online gambler of having a "gambling problem".

we all have problems to varying degrees, and some of our problems involve gambling;
but one heroin user calling out another is just not good form (even if the other user happens to use heroin less "responsibly")

Sorry that you find my comment to be "not nice". But you have a person in this thread who is convinced that the games are rigged against him, yet continues to play regardless. That same person is using the rigged argument to explain away his losses to random strangers on an internet forum.

Hey, the phone call is free. It could change a life. Can't do much harm.
 
A tin foil hat could be used to chase the dragon I suppose.
I think we gamblers all carry some superstitions. My husband had dozens of little quirks and rituals and he was a very intelligent and knowledgeable man. Maybe its better to educate than censure and barring that pity or at least show compassion.

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is a useful tool for the OP.

When we become delusional about our unfounded beliefs and start to see what we expect to see in the vast ocean of random numbers a little reality check from others who are familiar with the game can be a good thing.

If droves of disillusioned gamblers add their voices to each other's it could be confusing for the uneducated or unsure. It would annoy me and I would drop out. The machine is either a VP terminal or it is a slot machine and I'm pretty sure the likes of Wizard of Odds, and sharp players over the years have already determined what it is.
 
A tin foil hat could be used to chase the dragon I suppose.
I think we gamblers all carry some superstitions. My husband had dozens of little quirks and rituals and he was a very intelligent and knowledgeable man. Maybe its better to educate than censure and barring that pity or at least show compassion.

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is a useful tool for the OP.

When we become delusional about our unfounded beliefs and start to see what we expect to see in the vast ocean of random numbers a little reality check from others who are familiar with the game can be a good thing.

If droves of disillusioned gamblers add their voices to each other's it could be confusing for the uneducated or unsure. It would annoy me and I would drop out. The machine is either a VP terminal or it is a slot machine and I'm pretty sure the likes of Wizard of Odds, and sharp players over the years have already determined what it is.

I agree about the adding voices and giving new/uneducated gamblers the wrong impression.

It is not uncommon in these forums to read about 'gamblers' theories' about how casinos can change personal RTPs on the fly and re-write code etc etc. Personally, I've tried many times to 'educate' such people about the realities of casino games, and in 99.9% of cases it's a lost cause, because in my experience, it's more about that person's lack of control of their gambling which compels them to lash out at the operator who is 'ripping them off'.

Unfortunately, as I said, most of these people won't listen, and you can usually tell the ones who will by how they phrase their posts i.e. questions not statements. I'm more than happy to assist such people and have done so via PM on many occasions over the years (and some are still around enjoying their gambling which is how it should be :) ), but with the rest there is little choice but to paint them as tin-foil-hatters to avoid (as you said) others actually believing this nonsense is fact.

As I've said before, when I started out I was a bit like the OP in thinking that everything was rigged etc and I was anti-casino wherever possible, but thanks to some other members who provided the facts and talked about very important things like bankroll management and game choice, my views are very different these days and I can occasionally turn a profit instead of blowing the lot every time I play.

Good post Domme.
 

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