Victor Chandler and World Games Inc.??

[jyde]

World Games Inc (WGI) is one of the big pyramid schemes. Rumours on the WGI-messageboards are that they've whitelabelled a Victor Chandler sportsbook. Haven't been able to find anything anywhere to confirm this (ok - I don't trust anything coming from WGI ).


The WGI-members have BIG expectations to the business opportunity in this deal - can't see why though They don't have any external customers, only members losing money to each other and to the founders of WGI. Every cent won in the WGI casino and sportsbook was lost from another WGI-member

 

[Black21Jack]

World Games Inc (WGI) is one of the big pyramid schemes. Rumours on the WGI-messageboards are that they've whitelabelled a Victor Chandler sportsbook. Haven't been able to find anything anywhere to confirm this (ok - I don't trust anything coming from WGI ).


The WGI-members have BIG expectations to the business opportunity in this deal - can't see why though They don't have any external customers, only members losing money to each other and to the founders of WGI. Every cent won in the WGI casino and sportsbook was lost from another WGI-member

World Games Inc. is a very good, and profitable business opportunity. I including many other people have made a lot of money in their stock market. People who put $1000.00 in at the start of the stock and bought 1000 shares at 1.00 have cashed out $450,000 as of the last split. members who play the casino and win will leave the casino with the winnings and deposit money being instantly withdrawan to their account available to transfer to their Visa debit card that is provided when signing up The company is growing at a tremendous rate and they are making sure that everything they do is in accordance with gaming laws in the countries they are operating in, this is why they have not launched in the U.S. yet. What do you base your information on? WGI is not a pyramid, it uses MLM to distribute their product which is a variety of casino games, lottery products and soon to be introduced sportsbook, as well as a stock market game. You can join and play the casino, lottery and stock market without ever having to participate in the MLM aspect. The company will be introducing a premium player membership in July which will open the casino to the general public for free just like every other online casino, not just paid business members and will allow all players to get a pay2 Visa electron card where all winnings will be cashed out to instantly, and can be used at any atm in the world. The new premium players will be able to play the casino, sportsbook when launched, peer to peer betting, various lotteries, and I think they will be able to play the stock market game and purchase virtual shares. They will also have the option to upgrade to a paid business membership if they want to start making money by recruiting new members and Premium Players. The company is expecting an upcoming IPO onto the UK stock market where anyone in the world will be able to buy shares in the company, as well as being in the works to open a land based casino in the UK. New products are being introduced all the time and the latest news is the introduction of an online auction site that will compete with EBay. No one who has joined World Games Inc. has lost money, except maybe in the casino. There is a weekly Sweepstakes8 draw where one member wins upwards of 70000euro. Yes I am a member, and no I am not selling the company here, and trying to recruit new members nor will you see a link to my member page included here. I simply am responding to your baseless acusations and false information. Do some more research please and maybe contact the company to see what they have to say support@worldgamesinc.com, as well as members of the business before you spread lies and rumours.

Thank you

 

[spearmaster]

WGI is not a pyramid, it uses MLM

MLM, or Multi Level Marketing, is the equivalent of a pyramid. The difference between MLM and a pyramid scheme is that, with proper MLM, members actually get real product with value - ie. Nu Skin, Amway. Pyramids generally market time-shares in condos (you don't own the condo) and services (which of course you can't own).

Since you don't get to own a casino or any other product, WGI is definitely a pyramid.

 

[GrandMaster]

If only members can play, than jyde's statement "Every cent won in the WGI casino and sportsbook was lost from another WGI-member" has to be true by definition. As a consequence, it cannot be profitable for everyone.

 

[jyde]

If only members can play, than jyde's statement "Every cent won in the WGI casino and sportsbook was lost from another WGI-member" has to be true by definition. As a consequence, it cannot be profitable for everyone.

It is true. After collecting money for 2 years they opened WGI casino last summer (Chartwell software). This summer, after 3 years they will have their first real customer and launches a sportsbook. Don't know if MLM would work for promoting onlinegambling. I doubt it.

Members has paid 200-300 millions USD into WGI (not counting "investments" in the stock market game). If they really wanted a casino and sportsbook 1 million USD would have taken them a long way - and it would have been online 2 years ago. And they would have chosen something different for the casino than Chartwell

WGI is characterized by a lot of promises and little action. Sportsbetting has been "close" for years, but it's sooooo complicated - and they end up with a whitelabel

They "plan" on taking the company (or part of) public on London Stock Exchange. It was supposed to happen in 2002, 2003 and 2004.... and yet they have to release their first financial report. NO financial information whatsoever is released to members. Just unsubstantiated claims about 10000 m2 officespace in London (Mayfair) and 300 employees. Don't know what they're doing - probable maintaining the the software that controls the pyramid.

 

[Black21Jack]

It is true. After collecting money for 2 years they opened WGI casino last summer (Chartwell software). This summer, after 3 years they will have their first real customer and launches a sportsbook. Don't know if MLM would work for promoting onlinegambling. I doubt it.

Members has paid 200-300 millions USD into WGI (not counting "investments" in the stock market game). If they really wanted a casino and sportsbook 1 million USD would have taken them a long way - and it would have been online 2 years ago. And they would have chosen something different for the casino than Chartwell

WGI is characterized by a lot of promises and little action. Sportsbetting has been "close" for years, but it's sooooo complicated - and they end up with a whitelabel

They "plan" on taking the company (or part of) public on London Stock Exchange. It was supposed to happen in 2002, 2003 and 2004.... and yet they have to release their first financial report. NO financial information whatsoever is released to members. Just unsubstantiated claims about 10000 m2 officespace in London (Mayfair) and 300 employees. Don't know what they're doing - probable maintaining the the software that controls the pyramid.

Well during the 2 1/2 years you say they were "collecting money" their main product was the SMG (Stock Market Game) and the weekly lottery, where a lot of people made a lot of money from the stock splitting at 30 and then again last Dec at 15. I just wish I was in when they first started and secured some of the shares then, but I still did alright with the SMG. The MLM aspect will have nothing to do with the new Premium Players memberships or as you called them "real customers" Basically WGI has over 400,000 casino affiliates in their membership base who will market the casino and advertise, all while getting paid for every casino player they get to deposit. How is this different than the casino affiliate programs that everyone here is involved in? There is no need to join as a member, if you want to play the WGI casino you sign up for free and play just like every other casino online. All these new products were discussed in the recent Leaders Forum in SIngapore and have sheduled release dates.

 

[spearmaster]

Trust me, they do not have 400K affiliates. Based on the amount of activity I see from affiliates trying to use my forums to reach new people, I'd have to say they might have 1000 affiliates tops.

If you honestly believe that they have 400K affiliates... with all due respect I think you should take a much closer look at WGI.

 

[jyde]

400000 affiliates?? A LOT of people sharing 40% of the profit from the casino. You're lucky if you can buy a beer with your commision. Especially since VERY few of the 400000 members are active members. A quick calculation on the S8 pools indicates that around 5% of the members buy lottery tickets.

This is the best part btw. Before you get paid for the members you recruit, you have to buy a lottery ticket every week

For 2 years SMG was the main product? Interesting - since you can hardly find a better example of a pyramid scheme.

There is no need to join as a member, if you want to play the WGI casino you sign up for free and play just like every other casino online

You can't now - right? And before this happens 3 years will have passed.

 

[Black21Jack]

Trust me, they do not have 400K affiliates. Based on the amount of activity I see from affiliates trying to use my forums to reach new people, I'd have to say they might have 1000 affiliates tops.

If you honestly believe that they have 400K affiliates... with all due respect I think you should take a much closer look at WGI.

Buddy, you have got no clue and this post has convinced me that you people are so uneducated and know absolutely nothing about the company. I am in Toronto Canada and there are over 10000 members in just my area alone (Toronto and surrounding cities) yes I have met, and seen them at our meetings. I currently have 105,000 members subscribed to our newsletter. My good friend here in Toronto has an international downline with 5000 people in it that I have seen. That is not including how many thousands are all over Europe, Asia, and the rest of Canada alone. When I say 400,000 affiliates I mean 400,000 paid members who will now have the opportunity to promote the casino to the public just like you all do with the casino affiliate programs you are involved in. Is there a lot of inactives, yes but that is inactivity in regards to recruitment of members for their downlines. There are hundreds of members who join just for the SMG and nothing else. I have investorss in my downline who want nothing to do with MLM, but they wanted to join to make an investment in the SMG stocks, so they would be considered inactive. As far as the S8 is concerned, the main problem with that was the fact that the tickets were once 10CHF (Swiss Franc) now with the conversion to Euro, I including many others took a major increase in ticket price due to the conversion of 10 Euro from our home currency. We have voiced our opinions and they listened, and will now offer the tickets at 5 Euro which will increase participation in the S8, and we will soon see participation back to the same levels as before. I dont see how you get an affiliate number from how many people use your boards to recruit. If you mean that there is little activity, that proves nothing. Most recruiting is done on the home front with members of the community. It is also not worth it to advertise on the net since the major market, the USA is not released yet. Get a clue, I can have over 100000 members email you. 1000 members tops, that is hilarious. this ends my participation in this topic as you people have clearly not done enough research on the company, and I have no interest in trying to convince you of the legitimacy of the program.

 

[spearmaster]

Let me put it another way.

I have more experience in this industry than most - by a long, long shot. I also come from a background of marketing in many disciplines, including MLM.

400,000 members is not the same thing as 400,000 affiliates - I don't care what you think. An affiliate is considered to be actively marketing a product, not just signing up. You chose the wrong words and you want to make it look as if I am wrong?

I didn't say 1000 members - of course that is ridiculous. I said 1000 affiliates - so please correct your statement.

 

[GrandMaster]

I would like to get a straight answer to a few questions.

Can I play at the casino for free without paying a membership fee?

Is jyde statement correct that paid members have to buy a lottery ticket in order to receive payment for the people they recruited?

How does the stock market game work? The website says it is a game, but Black21Jack claims people have made hundred of thousands of dollars on it.

 

[spearmaster]

Is jyde statement correct that paid members have to buy a lottery ticket in order to receive payment for the people they recruited?

While not specific to WGI, since I didn't bother to take another look, Jyde should be correct because this is the normal marketing method of a MLM/pyramid scheme. Either you pay/play or you don't collect your earnings.

 

[Black21Jack]

I would like to get a straight answer to a few questions.

Can I play at the casino for free without paying a membership fee?

Is jyde statement correct that paid members have to buy a lottery ticket in order to receive payment for the people they recruited?

How does the stock market game work? The website says it is a game, but Black21Jack claims people have made hundred of thousands of dollars on it.

Ok here it is,

Currently the casino is open to members only, but in July they will be releasing a Premium Player membership that is free for the public and you will be able to play the casino, sports book, peer to peer betting, lotteries and SMG. They will give you the option of a pay2 visa electron card where your winnings can be withdrawn instantly to and used like a credit card or, point of sale debit anywhere in the world. the card also has a lot of other benefits like VIP lounge status at airports, life insurance etc. more can be found at www.pay2.net To be in the MLM aspect of the business, meaning buying a paid distributor membership you must purchase a weekly Sweepstakes8 ticket to receive your residual income from members who join in your downline. This is on par with every other MLM company in the business if you are familiar, most require you to be active in some way to earn. The SMG is the most exciting thing they have and if anyone including jyde even tries to dispute the fact that people have made substantial amounts of money, then they are even more uneducated than I thought. I have made money and I have people in my downline who are traders on the TSX (Toronto Stock Exchange) who have joined strictly for the stocks. July 2001 the stocks went on the block at 1.00 and quickly climbed to 30.00 at which point they split the stock giving every member 30:1, it then climed again from 1.00 to 15.00 last December and they again split it 15:1 so it worked like this: $1000 at the beginning got you 1000 at 1.00, climbed to 30.00 making the portfolio worth 30,000 where they split it 30:1 giving you 30,000 shares valued again at 1.00. It then climbed to 15.00 making the portfolio worth 450,000 and most people sold at this price making them pretty wealthy. I have been through the second split and am still holding most of my shares. I plan to cash out in three years with a nice chunk of cash, enough to retire with. They call it a game becuase it is a virtual stock that is dependent on the activity of the member community which is the same as a conventional stock market because with all the people joining and buying and selling it causes demand for stock and causes it to go up. For more info go to www.wgibroker.com with all the info on the stock market (this is not my site by the way so dont take this as advertising).
Two weeks ago the stock was at 0.04 Euro at which time I dumped an additional 5000 Euro in, today it is currently rising and is at 0.20 Euro, you do the math. A lot of people are also making a living with day trading the stock. Just look at the numbers I gave you, and no it is not BS, I can show proof to anyone who contests it. Another way that the stock is forced to go up is 30% of all the money members win in the casino, or that they win from playing the Sweepstakes8 is automatically removed and put in your mandatory account, where you can only buy stocks with it. It is still your money but it must be used to buy stocks for yourself. These stocks have to stay in your SMG account for a certain time frame and then you can sell them if you wish. This causes more demand for stock because it lowers the available pool of shares. This rule will not apply to the Premium Player memberhips that are coming in July, only for paid business partners. The Premium Players are totally free and you will be able to play for free or for real money. To all the naysayers and skeptics I say I feel bad for you, and to all those who have joined already and all you new members, see you at the top. WGI is a storng company with a strong business model. They are in a very aggressive growth phase and will not suffer from any negativity. They just shrug it off and say "Thats business" Just look at Mocrosoft they have been bombarded with negativity, government interference and they are still going strong as a multibillion dollar company, and one of the most successful in the world.

 

[thesmiler]

Just a quick question Black21Jack:
Where does all the money come from members now can make? Who loses this money or where does it come from? There must be some source of all these riches.

 

[Black21Jack]

Just a quick question Black21Jack:
Where does all the money come from members now can make? Who loses this money or where does it come from? There must be some source of all these riches.

Well if your are in the MLM business aspect you get a portion of the price of memberships from all the people you sign up and from all the people they sign up, because there is a fee to join the business. As far as the casino is concerned it is the same as any other online casino, the casino makes the money and you get a portion from anyone who is in your downline that deposits and plays as well as a portion from any tickets sold for the Sweepstakes8 by anyone in your downline. When the Premium Player memberships are released (which will be free for the general public just like every other online casino) it will be the same as any casino affiliate program, if you market, and advertise the casino and get players from your link then you will make money if they deposit and play. As far as the stock market is concerned you make money by the shares increasing and then selling at a higher amount then you bought for. And there is constant buying and selling so selling the stock is never a problem, currently today the volume is 4,500,000 shares being traded, Sunday is always lower volume, but it is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week unlike the conventional stock market which has limited trading hours for 5 out of 7 days.

 

[jyde]

B21J - Where did I dispute the fact that some of you made big money? I know perfectly well - and that is part of the problem - as in any pyramid scheme. You recruit people by using some rich Norwegians or other people in the upper floors of the pyramid as shining examples. Of course its only a few that makes a lot of money - the majority must have lost money. WGI is a closed circuit - like a big (pyramid shaped) box. You throw money in the box and share it a bit to redistribute the funds, moving from the lower layers to the upper. And everytime money is moved WGI takes a cut since they're having the trouble with holding and shaking the box

Don't you agree, that everytime someone wins in WGI there MUST be another one losing?

Here's how WGI (the owners) make money:
- you have to play in the S8-lottery to get paid
- if you win in the lottery 30% is invested in the stock market game (SMG)
- 30% of your income from the network is invested in the SMG
- there's a 10% (!!!!) brokerage fee when you sell shares in SMG
- you have to play in the casino to earn commission. Your cut is calculated as ("your turnover"/"total turnover") x 100
- when you withdraw money on your Pay2 card they take a cut and place it in a "Members Investment Fund". Noone really knows who own this fund - but its managed by the very reputable www.bostoncapitalgroup.com obviously to be confused with www.bostoncapital.com

Here's a presentation btw.
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

 

[jyde]

As far as the stock market is concerned you make money by the shares increasing and then selling at a higher amount then you bought for. And there is constant buying and selling so selling the stock is never a problem

Never a problem? Not even when the stock dropped like a rock and lost 80% of its value?

There was a guaranteed minimumprize of 1 CHF - meaning "you can never lose - it can only go up". The minimum meant that noone traded since noone would buy at 1 CHF - so there was a vote and "everyone" decided to remove the floor in February. Good for the old members who had a lot of shares they couldn't get rid of - not so good for anyone else.

 

[Black21Jack]

B21J - Where did I dispute the fact that some of you made big money? I know perfectly well - and that is part of the problem - as in any pyramid scheme. You recruit people by using some rich Norwegians or other people in the upper floors of the pyramid as shining examples. Of course its only a few that makes a lot of money - the majority must have lost money. WGI is a closed circuit - like a big (pyramid shaped) box. You throw money in the box and share it a bit to redistribute the funds, moving from the lower layers to the upper. And everytime money is moved WGI takes a cut since they're having the trouble with holding and shaking the box

Don't you agree, that everytime someone wins in WGI there MUST be another one losing?

Here's how WGI (the owners) make money:
- you have to play in the S8-lottery to get paid
- if you win in the lottery 30% is invested in the stock market game (SMG)
- 30% of your income from the network is invested in the SMG
- there's a 10% (!!!!) brokerage fee when you sell shares in SMG
- you have to play in the casino to earn commission. Your cut is calculated as ("your turnover"/"total turnover") x 100
- when you withdraw money on your Pay2 card they take a cut and place it in a "Members Investment Fund". Noone really knows who own this fund - but its managed by the very reputable www.bostoncapitalgroup.com obviously to be confused with www.bostoncapital.com

Here's a presentation btw.
Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

You are making no sense, it is like anyone who is in any stock market. If you buy low and sell high you make money. As the stock rises people are buying at a higher price than you did, but they are not losing money they are just buying higher than you but like every other stock market they will make their money as it rises. I do not understand your logic. Yes 30% is invested but is is invested by you in your own account, it is your money. They do that so that it increases share demand, you own the shares from that 30%. 10% brokerage is fine, obviously WGI has to make money but if you make thousands of dollars in the SMG 10% is not a big deal. Go invest your money in the conventional stock market of today, lose your money from all the stocks tanking like all did from Enron and Nortel and then pay your broker his commission, what looks better? Contrary to what you posted above you do not need to play in the casino it is optional and you have to submit the option to earn from the casino, default is set to not earning from your downline play due to the fact that a lot of people are of religions that do not allow gambling. They will also bar you from the casino if they notice what they call trouble play patterns , meaning if your play shows that you are putting a substantial amount of money in the casino and losing all your earnings they block you until you contact WGI to prove that you do not have a gambling problem. If you feel that you do have a problem you can also request to be blocked from the casino in your members lounge. So you definitely are not required to play the casino. The members investment fund has been explained to me, so you should ask before posting it as fact. This fund is still your money and will be used for future IPO's whether that be for the release on the London Stock market or if they release any more virtual stock product into the SMG. No money is taken from members for the company except the 10% brokerage which is totally fair since you would not be making the money in the SMG if WGI did not run the software, pay their IT employees etc. so 10% is totally fair. I have never heard of this Boston Capital Group but I have sent this info to WGI and the Toronto leaders, and I highly doubt that they have anything to do with this company.

 

[Black21Jack]

Never a problem? Not even when the stock dropped like a rock and lost 80% of its value?

There was a guaranteed minimumprize of 1 CHF - meaning "you can never lose - it can only go up". The minimum meant that noone traded since noone would buy at 1 CHF - so there was a vote and "everyone" decided to remove the floor in February. Good for the old members who had a lot of shares they couldn't get rid of - not so good for anyone else.

Yeah so they removed the floor, and people are still making money. I did not lose a dime and any members coming in since are getting the stock very low price. and it is going up every day.

 

[jyde]

Let me try again:

- 10 people each put $10 in a box you have $100.
- One person take out $50
- 9 people have potentially lost money, UNLESS they can find more people that will put $10 in the box.
- Everyone will make money until you can't find more people that will drop money in the box.

WGI isn't a team of winners. There are a few winners and a LOT of losers.

 

[jyde]

Yeah so they removed the floor, and people are still making money. I did not lose a dime and any members coming in since are getting the stock very low price. and it is going up every day.

Now that's bullshit. If the share lost 80% over a couple of months - how can "people still make money". Not all 410000 of you can afford to chase losses.

 

[Black21Jack]

Let me try again:

- 10 people each put $10 in a box you have $100.
- One person take out $50
- 9 people have potentially lost money, UNLESS they can find more people that will put $10 in the box.
- Everyone will make money until you can't find more people that will drop money in the box.

WGI isn't a team of winners. There are a few winners and a LOT of losers.

Ok this is the last time I am posting on this topic. Everyone who joins for the business opportunity knows full well that to make the money from MLM you have to recruit. You do not need to recruit people to make money with WGI, you can buy the lowest membership for 65 euro and just gamble and invest in stocks. Out of the thousands and thousands of people I have been in contact with not one has lost money in WGI and I am in contact with my whole downline regularly. This is like any other business where you have to sell a product. You are selling the memberships, for example if you sell 50 memberships (recruit 50 people) at the 65 dollar level and get 20 out of everyone sold for example you have made your commission, and WGI has sold another membership and gets their money being 45 dollars. Obviously making money is dependent on the number of people you bring in because that is your product, the memberships. Everyone knows that is what MLM is all about and if you dont like the concept simply dont join for the MLM. That is the beauty of WGI, many other ways to make money that are seperate from the MLM. If you dont work hard and get out there to promote you will not make money with the WGI MLM, and we do not want any lazy people, and negative people. If you want to promote an online casino, are familiar with MLM, want to invest in a stable, proven investment then we want you. Thats it, what Im leaving it at. This is kind of getting away from Online Casinos which is the topic of this forum.

 

[jyde]

You do not need to recruit people to make money with WGI, you can buy the lowest membership for 65 euro and just gamble and invest in stocks. Out of the thousands and thousands of people I have been in contact with not one has lost money in WGI and I am in contact with my whole downline regularly.

You're selling onlinegambling "products" right? Gambling on negative expectation games - right? If noone lost - what is the point with WGI.

Everyone knows that is what MLM is all about and if you dont like the concept simply dont join for the MLM

MLM is about selling PRODUCTS. Until the casino opened your main product was more memberships and SMG - with SMG being perfect to help feed the pyramid.

 

[spearmaster]

Out of the thousands and thousands of people I have been in contact with not one has lost money in WGI and I am in contact with my whole downline regularly.

LMFAO.

You yourself contact thousands of people who have invested in WGI and can claim that NONE have lost money?

You continue to go over the top with outrageous claims that you cannot back up, or twisting words in your favor (ie. members vs affiliates) and you expect people to actually listen to you defending yourself?

Don't bother responding, since you have already claimed twice that you would make no further posts on the subject. It's quite clear that you cannot perpetrate your smoke and mirrors show here.

 

[jyde]

When I think of it - this statement IS hilarious

Out of the thousands and thousands of people I have been in contact with not one has lost money in WGI and I am in contact with my whole downline regularly

How on earth could everyone in your downline have profited? There's no money from the outside - so where did it come from?