Very Strange Win

Pendragyn21 Changing RTP isn't turning on or off a magical "win" switch. It wouldn't affect just one player or just one type of deposit (because this is all a free chip is). If they did something like this everyone would have noticed.

This is true, changing the RTP few % here and there is not going to produce obvious changes to a players session. Even if the RTP is set at the lowest setting players could still be lucky and win.

It is sheer fantasy that players can fire an email off to the management and get a winning run to help them along. The fact of the matter is playing in a casino involves an element of financial risk. Long losing streaks do not indicate that the games are somehow set unfairly.

When you listen to some of these RTG players complaining you would think they are being forced to play. You do have a choice, if you feel the software is unfair then stand up for your beliefs and do not give these casinos your money.

Alas this never happens, despite all the moaning players will come back again. When they win you hear them cry its rigged because the casino decided to let them win. When they lose they post on here its rigged because they cannot get a decent session.

Get this rigged mentality out of your head I say, and start playing software that you feel is not rigged. If your hobby is causing so much stress then surely its time to take a break or better still get a new hobby.

Mike
 
Where is the "Proof" in this statement? Or is it just an assumption that you want to believe that they have done this for protecting the integrity? As I have been told many times...prove it...that they have these failsafes..if not then I suggest you restate this as an assumption...or belief..

All it takes to change software is one line of code placed in the right place...and removed when no longer needed..and can be done by anyone knowing software or writing codes..

.

The burden of proof lies on the party making the allegation. But if you insist "whatever failsafes and doublechecks RTG MAY have in place to protect the integrity of their software." Some of this is based on what I've read in the old RTG website before they took down most of the information.

It's also an assumption that it just takes one line of code in the right place in this particular instance to do this and that it can be done by anyone who can code.

One failsafe we know is in place is RTG has to confirm RTP change, so certain changes to the software send an alert to RTG. We also know that a third party checks their RNG. ASSUMPTION ALERT: Being that this is a client/server app, it is outright suicidal of RTG to have no checks in place protect the integrity of the data stream. Without it, forget the casinos, disreputable players would hack it left and right so that they always won.
 
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It is sheer fantasy that players can fire an email off to the management and get a winning run to help them along. The fact of the matter is playing in a casino involves an element of financial risk. Long losing streaks do not indicate that the games are somehow set unfairly.

When you listen to some of these RTG players complaining you would think they are being forced to play. You do have a choice, if you feel the software is unfair then stand up for your beliefs and do not give these casinos your money.

Alas this never happens, despite all the moaning players will come back again. When they win you hear them cry its rigged because the casino decided to let them win. When they lose they post on here its rigged because they cannot get a decent session.

Get this rigged mentality out of your head I say, and start playing software that you feel is not rigged. If your hobby is causing so much stress then surely its time to take a break or better still get a new hobby.

Mike


When it comes to online casinos or poker rooms, I always speak for myself and from personal experiences.

I can assure you if I never hit big and never cashed out I wouldnt still be betting online after 10 years plus.

I respect your opinion and comments Wikdfire7 when you say if you dont trust it dont play it. Well I dont trust it 100% and still play. Regardless how many deposits or cash outs I had in the past, I still always keep my eyes and ears open. I carry a negative bankroll with online casinos (not online poker) just as I do with land based casinos. When I play poker tournaments the entire time (except when Im looking at my hold cards) Im watching the table for poker tells, and a careful eye on collusion team signals, chip dumping, soft play, etc... None of this might be going on during any one particular game but this doesnt mean Im going to stop looking. Many incidents have happened in the past especially at local poker clubs that got ugly. Maybe some day Ill share some of these stories in the attic.

Now when it comes to online casinos I dont care how accredited they are, the online casino industry themselves insist on not coming to the forefront. All they constantly do is create doubt and distrust. Casino owners, operators, software providers, programmers, casino support, cashiers, everyone involved want to remain anonymous with the luxury of hiding in cyberspace. Not one of them ever come forward and explains anything as a matter of fact. Did you know that just about all the reps you speak to at a casino the name they use during chat is not their real name?

Seventy percent of the threads here are about being abused in one form or another. Yes, I also understand many are real petty and senseless. But overall based on what we read here you cant possibly think that all is fare in cyberspace casinos.

As far as me having this illusion of firing off an e-mail getting a free chip and winning with it is confirming any thing more then pure coincidence is hopefully nonsense. Yet, on the other hand can you be absolutely 100% positive it was pure coincidence? I certainly cant prove it wasnt a coincidence. Can you prove it was a coincidence?

I started this thread stating Its things like this that happen to me that prevent me from letting go of the suspicions I have when it comes to online gambling. I closed it with I will continue even more to smell something is cooking in cyberspace... Nothing more here then expressing my feelings. Of course I have no proof.

I respect what you or anyone else here have to say and will always listen. I may or may not agree, but that doesnt mean what I or you have to say is the law of the land.

Before I flip a coin with you for my cash, I want to see the coin before you flip it and I want to pick it off the floor after the flip for another inspection or Im not paying.

As far as online casinos go, as long as it stays in its present form the rigged accusations will never end. I'll probably get this rigged mentality out of my head when the U.S.A. hopefully get involved.

On a personal note, I never complained about any losing streak and lord knows Ive had a few. Ive complained about having a terrible year or two but not any one casino. In addition I always got treated fairly after becoming loyal to many different online casinos over the years. This doesnt mean I cant think they might be screwing me.

When I think it gets over the top and there's no chance at all, that's when I'll quit my hobby. But for now I'm still enjoying myself even if I'm getting screwed.
 
I started this thread stating Its things like this that happen to me that prevent me from letting go of the suspicions I have when it comes to online gambling. I closed it with I will continue even more to smell something is cooking in cyberspace... Nothing more here then expressing my feelings. Of course I have no proof.

Reading this part of your post I laughed and had to chime in about forum threads in general. If I started a thread titled "I'm not confident about the integrity of online casinos." posts would show up accusing me of cheating and paraphrasing me as saying the entire internet was bogus. On page 2 of the thread a post would say that I really meant to slander every online casino and that I really have it out for CM and its moderators. On page 3, I would be accused of denying the holocaust and of making death threats against Mr. Microsoft himself :D

/derail
 
Where is the "Proof" in this statement? Or is it just an assumption that you want to believe that they have done this for protecting the integrity? As I have been told many times...prove it...that they have these failsafes..if not then I suggest you restate this as an assumption...or belief..

All it takes to change software is one line of code placed in the right place...and removed when no longer needed..and can be done by anyone knowing software or writing codes..

.

THANK YOU!
Has nothing to do with hacking, just as silcnlayc stated it is a simple line change or code. Who do you think made the software in the first place, software engineers who as well know how to manipulate it easily!
And they do not have to change the settings as a whole, they can change it per player!
I will post chat convo and other supporting info later!
 
When it comes to online casinos or poker rooms, I always speak for myself and from personal experiences.

I can assure you if I never hit big and never cashed out I wouldnt still be betting online after 10 years plus.

I respect your opinion and comments Wikdfire7 when you say if you dont trust it dont play it. Well I dont trust it 100% and still play. Regardless how many deposits or cash outs I had in the past, I still always keep my eyes and ears open. I carry a negative bankroll with online casinos (not online poker) just as I do with land based casinos. When I play poker tournaments the entire time (except when Im looking at my hold cards) Im watching the table for poker tells, and a careful eye on collusion team signals, chip dumping, soft play, etc... None of this might be going on during any one particular game but this doesnt mean Im going to stop looking. Many incidents have happened in the past especially at local poker clubs that got ugly. Maybe some day Ill share some of these stories in the attic.

Now when it comes to online casinos I dont care how accredited they are, the online casino industry themselves insist on not coming to the forefront. All they constantly do is create doubt and distrust. Casino owners, operators, software providers, programmers, casino support, cashiers, everyone involved want to remain anonymous with the luxury of hiding in cyberspace. Not one of them ever come forward and explains anything as a matter of fact. Did you know that just about all the reps you speak to at a casino the name they use during chat is not their real name?

Seventy percent of the threads here are about being abused in one form or another. Yes, I also understand many are real petty and senseless. But overall based on what we read here you cant possibly think that all is fare in cyberspace casinos.

As far as me having this illusion of firing off an e-mail getting a free chip and winning with it is confirming any thing more then pure coincidence is hopefully nonsense. Yet, on the other hand can you be absolutely 100% positive it was pure coincidence? I certainly cant prove it wasnt a coincidence. Can you prove it was a coincidence?

I started this thread stating Its things like this that happen to me that prevent me from letting go of the suspicions I have when it comes to online gambling. I closed it with I will continue even more to smell something is cooking in cyberspace... Nothing more here then expressing my feelings. Of course I have no proof.

I respect what you or anyone else here have to say and will always listen. I may or may not agree, but that doesnt mean what I or you have to say is the law of the land.

Before I flip a coin with you for my cash, I want to see the coin before you flip it and I want to pick it off the floor after the flip for another inspection or Im not paying.

As far as online casinos go, as long as it stays in its present form the rigged accusations will never end. I'll probably get this rigged mentality out of my head when the U.S.A. hopefully get involved.

On a personal note, I never complained about any losing streak and lord knows Ive had a few. Ive complained about having a terrible year or two but not any one casino. In addition I always got treated fairly after becoming loyal to many different online casinos over the years. This doesnt mean I cant think they might be screwing me.

When I think it gets over the top and there's no chance at all, that's when I'll quit my hobby. But for now I'm still enjoying myself even if I'm getting screwed.

This is straight from an online software gaming provider:

Gaming Software

Administration and Reporting

The charting tool allows you to move lines, add or edit games, monitor wager activity and much more. Unique wager profiles can be created for individual users or groups of users, allowing you to easily cater to the specific wagering needs of those customers. Grading is lightning fast. Re-grading and un-grading functions allow you to modify or undo the grading process quickly and easily. Detailed reports covering every facet of your operation are instantly available. Custom reports can be created with to give you the specific information you need when you need it.

The chat I saved is from TopGame and it is the whole screenshot of the casino, because of the way their chat is set up I couldn't just save the chat or I don't know of another way. But I assure you I was told that the casino controls the software not the provider. I have no reason to make things up, what will that get me!
It makes makes perfect sense. Example: you chose a bank(provider) to deposit your money, well they have your money but they don't control it, you do. It is no different; the casino chooses someone to host the games(software) but they are the ones in control!
 
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THANK YOU!
Has nothing to do with hacking, just as silcnlayc stated it is a simple line change or code. Who do you think made the software in the first place, software engineers who as well know how to manipulate it easily!
And they do not have to change the settings as a whole, they can change it per player!
I will post chat convo and other supporting info later!

Anyone ever heard of something called an
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
?

The majority of software engineers and programmers put one in as a form of signature, or just to be mischievous.

Some are hidden features, some are hidden messages and some are backdoor access points.



Software manipulation is ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY!!!!!
 
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Anyone ever heard of something called an
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
?

The majority of software engineers and programmers put one in as a form of signature, or just to be mischievous.

Some are hidden features, some are hidden messages and some are backdoor access points.



Software manipulation is ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY!!!!!

THANK YOU!
 
The plain truth is that you got lucky with that chip.

The plain truth is, that you really don't know for sure if any, all, or a particular casino actually cheats. Because if they did, and it was done intelligently, it could be almost impossible to detect.

No, that's not the case, since RTP is constant across all bet levels.

Unless, of course, it has been manipulated. (P.S.- was that on topic?)

The fact of the matter is playing in a casino involves an element of financial risk. Long losing streaks do not indicate that the games are somehow set unfairly.

When you listen to some of these RTG players complaining you would think they are being forced to play. You do have a choice, if you feel the software is unfair then stand up for your beliefs and do not give these casinos your money.

On the other hand, if the games were indeed unfair, long losing streaks would be one manifestation of this corruption.

I agree about the "You do have a choice " part; I myself have not played RTG software for at least 3 years now, and I doubt I could ever be made to return, except for a free chip.

Now when it comes to online casinos I dont care how accredited they are, the online casino industry themselves insist on not coming to the forefront. All they constantly do is create doubt and distrust. Casino owners, operators, software providers, programmers, casino support, cashiers, everyone involved want to remain anonymous with the luxury of hiding in cyberspace. Not one of them ever come forward and explains anything as a matter of fact. Did you know that just about all the reps you speak to at a casino the name they use during chat is not their real name?

As far as me having this illusion of firing off an e-mail getting a free chip and winning with it is confirming any thing more then pure coincidence is hopefully nonsense. Yet, on the other hand can you be absolutely 100% positive it was pure coincidence? I certainly cant prove it wasnt a coincidence. Can you prove it was a coincidence?

Extremely well said!

Anyone ever heard of something called an
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
?

The majority of software engineers and programmers put one in as a form of signature, or just to be mischievous.

Some are hidden features, some are hidden messages and some are backdoor access points.

Software manipulation is ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY!!!!!

Another great point! The Easter Bunny may not exist, but cheaters and scoundrels will always be around...
 
Trust between the players and casinos is damaged and while that exists there will always be doubt and they'll think the casinos capable of anything. The casino made me lose or made me win arguments are the symptom not the disease. Hopefully some will find comfort in the fact that some ways of screwing players over are not as simple as you may think.

The rest of the post might be off topic so feel free to skip it.

THANK YOU!
Has nothing to do with hacking, just as silcnlayc stated it is a simple line change or code. Who do you think made the software in the first place, software engineers who as well know how to manipulate it easily!
And they do not have to change the settings as a whole, they can change it per player!
I will post chat convo and other supporting info later!

Hacks/jury rigs and one line code changes are not mutually exclusive (a hack/jury rig can be a one line code change or vice versa). And the more complex the product, the more likely any software change (one line or not) breaks 10 other things. Software engineers can be just as shortsighted as the rest of us, which is why there is a whole career field devoted to telling them what they did wrong.

Your chat showed nothing about allowing an individual player to win or the ability to manipulate the RNG on a player by player basis or a chip type basis. It's says nothing about handing over wins or losses. Grading in the context appears to be mean what sort of category the player falls into and not whether or not they should win or lose.

Software manipulation is ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY!!!!!

Of course software manipulation is always possible because no one is perfect and no one has infinite time and money. (See above comment about shortsighted programmers.) Never anywhere did I say it couldn't be changed. I'm saying that some changes are less likely than others because some changes carry more risks than others. And even more important, some changes can be NOTICED more than others.

Easter eggs and backdoors are like assassins, yeah sometimes they a part of some larger conspiracy, but usually they are the result of one lone individual with either a grudge or too much time on their hands.
 
It's like science and religion, some have proof some have faith. And posting agreement in this thread doesn't mean we are poor losers or winners. It just means we relate to what someone said. This isn't a bitch-fest after all but I do love to have the last word :)

ps. my 'strange win' was an mg not rtg.
 

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