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VegasPartnerLounge PlayerAbusers!!

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by AgainstAllOdds, May 21, 2004.

    May 21, 2004
  1. AgainstAllOdds

    AgainstAllOdds Dormant account

    Location:
    Denmark
    When you play the 15 % neteller deposit on any of www.vegaspartnerlonunge.com's casinos you will be excluded though fullfilling alll requirements in their T&C's, certainly if you are a danish player. Untill now they have sent this email to me and two of my friends:

    Dear *****

    Thanks for supporting us here at Vegas Partner Lounge!

    We are no longer able to give you further deposit bonuses . This special deposit bonus is restricted to loyal members of the casino that have proven to play in excess of the minimum wagering requirements and play a variety of games.

    We have also noticed that you currently have a withdrawal request for the amount of $******. We confirm that this withdrawal will not be affected by these playing conditions and will be processed as normal.

    Our withdrawal Manager will be in touch with you shortly.

    We simply must spend our bonus funds rewarding loyal players. Should your playing habits change for a significant period of time in the future it would be our privilege to offer you a special bonus again at that time.



    I have been playing at over 100 online casinos for the last years and have never been stamped as a bonus abuser, 'cause I am certainly not. I always play well over wagerrequirements, so I would like to contact the casino to ask what they're doing, but my friend already did and recieved this rude answer, so I won't bother:

    Dear *****

    In response to your statement regarding the fairness of us no longer giving bonuses to yourself and other players who we consider bonus abusers we have the following response:

    Our bonus terms and conditions specifically state that even if a player has fulfilled the specific terms and conditions relating to bonuses it is at the casino's sole discretion to determine whether a player is abusing our bonuses.
    The normal procedure by most casino's when classifying a player as a bonus abuser is to immediately remove all bonuses and winnings before cashing those players in and some casino's even confiscate the entire cash-in and lock the players account.
    On the other hand when we find that a player is adhering to most of our terms and conditions but is still abusing our bonuses we do not confiscate winnings and or bonuses nor do we lock their accounts. In the interests of maintaining fair play we email the player informing them that they will not be receiving more bonuses and we honour all cash-in's that were made prior to us informing the player as long as they did adhere to the specific wagering requirements.
    No winnings nor bonuses are confiscated and accounts are not locked as is done at other casino's. Such players are even allowed to continue playing at our casino's.
    We take this soft approach because we know that we are the best in the business and we'd like to always give the players the benefit of the doubt.
    We'd rather just exclude those players who abuse our bonuses than change our terms and conditions and penalize genuine punters just because a few players have found ways of abusing our lenient bonus terms and conditions.

    You are welcome to contact Casinomeister and Casinoportalen as we have good relations with these and other reputable portals and they always allow us to give our response. Should you post us we will respond and it will enable all honest players to see how reputable, lenient and fair we are even to abusers such as yourself and how we won't penalize good players by increasing wagering requirements or reducing bonuses just because of a few bad apples.

    If there is anything else you need please don't hesitate contacting us.

    Regards,

    Brian
    Cash-In Manager
    Vegas Partner Lounge



    So now they're posted here and at You must register/login in order to see the link. I hope they will give us a fair explanation to why making an offer which if played will result in exclusion... Very bad casino behaviour if you ask me!

    The vegaspartnerlounge group consists of the following casinos:

    Cinema Casino
    777 Dragon
    CasinoUS
    SunVegas
    Arthurian
    CrazyVegas
    Crazy Vegas Poker
     
  2. May 21, 2004
  3. Black21Jack

    Black21Jack Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Courier driver
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    First of all I don't see anything wrong with the first email they sent to you. They have the right to remove bonuses privledges from any player account at any time they want, and they sent you a polite email letting you know. They even made it clear in the email that you will receive your pending withdrawal so what is the problem? Second of all you stated that the email received by your friend was rude, well after reading it I could not find anything rude about. In fact I found they were quite pleasant in explaining their reasoning behind doing what they did and also stated that if there were any further questions regarding the topic to feel free to contact them at any time. I just don't see anything wrong here. Why don't you just deposit your own money and play with that? It will save you a lot of headache and hassles by not having to worry about wagering requirements, possible locked accounts etc. Just a suggestion.
     
  4. May 21, 2004
  5. VPL

    VPL Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Call Centre Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    Hi there AgainstAllOdds,

    Please note that as per our mail below, you and your friend are still welcome to play at any of our casinos at any time, and to join our loyalty programs.

    Also note that it is clearly stated on all our websites, as below on Crazy Vegas :

    Promotion Abuse

    Crazy Vegas Casino management reserves the right to determine whether play has been deemed to be promotion abuse even though there may have been compliance with the above terms and conditions. In addition non compliance with the above terms and conditions shall be deemed to be
    promotion abuse. As such in both of these cases, Crazy Vegas Casino
    Management has the right at its sole discretion to take the following action against such abusers :


    All winnings on all accounts opened will be null and void and all cash-ins will be cancelled where a player has been deemed abusive.

    Abusing player accounts may be terminated with immediate effect.

    Players found to be abusing promotions may be barred from receiving further promotional offers at the casino.

    In the event that the casino deems a player to have misused a casino account for the exploitation of promotional offers, without ever
    demonstrating any degree of risk with personal funds or serious intention to play, the redemption of all such promotional offers, including but not limited to sign-up bonuses, will be suspended until such times as the player demonstrates a purchase history at the casino.

    Your account has not been locked, and that you are still welcome to play. The problem is that both you and your friend have demonstrated exactly the same style of purchasing / withdrawing, taking advantage of the ongoing bonus.

    Please also remember that your account will be monitored, and if notice that your style of play can be deemed as non-abusive, we may re-instate your bonuses.


    Regards
    Vegas Partner Lounge
     
  6. May 21, 2004
  7. thesmacker

    thesmacker Most Annoying Forum Member of 2006

    VPL have had this policy forever. Basically it should state this:
    "If you lose at least 40% of your deposit or play slots you are welcome to get the 15% monthly bonus, otherwise we will label you a bonus abuser."

    It is there casino so they can do as they please as long as they pay you all the money you have won (which I'm sure they will do) but there are far better monthly bonus programs out there where they dont treat you like a scammer. I suggest you simply go play eleswhere where you are treated with more respect.
    Cheers
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. May 21, 2004
  9. Clayman

    Clayman Dormant account

    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Don't worry too much about it - that's pretty much my status at alot of casinos. I do think that they are going about in the right way - that is, you still have an account and are made whole on all your qualified play.

    I was just curious if you, or anyone locked out by VPL, or any other casino for that matter, could give us an idea of your overall play there, like how many bonuses you took advantage of, the total dollar amount of all bonuses, total hands, deposits and wagering you may have done, how much you may have won, the different games you may have played and their proportions to total play, over how long a period, how much and often you may have exceed WR's, etc - whatever you feel comfortable disclosing.
     
  10. May 21, 2004
  11. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    There's no harm in refusing to offer bonuses to given players at their discretion - it's their operation.

    On the other hand, the email posted is quite disgusting and I would not have expected this offensive nonsense from this group:

    Normal procedure?? At which casinos is this "normal procedure" applied? Warren Cloud operations? Are VPL saying they're "at least better than Warren Cloud"? Wow, that's a hell of an achievement.

    MOST of the T & C? So some have been broken? Which ones? Total BS.

    WHICH OTHER CASINOS?? Give us some names here, please. You're making this up, unless we're still talking Cloud / Friedmann / Jurgens etc etc. Is that really the best claim to quality you have? "We're better than shit". LOL. "...even allowed to continue playing at our casinos". That's really big of you, to insult a player like this then magnanimously allow him to continue patronizing your operation.

    "we know that we are the best in the business" - my God, how arrogant is this statement?? According to who? Ecogra? LMFAO. Sorry VPL, you are currently one of the WORST in the business in my estimation.

    What is the nature of the "abuse", how are these players not "genuine" and WTF is "lenient" about your bonus policy? When last I looked, the terms were really pretty stringent.

    You betcha. Maybe those relationships need re-thinking on the part of the portals.

    Are you accusing the player of dishonesty? what is the nature of the deception and why did you pay him ANYTHING if he's been dishonest? Why is he a "bad apple"? And notice the thinly-veiled threat in the "we will respond" remark.

    What an arrogant, rude, offensive Email this is to send to a player. This group is clearly headed down the pan and I'd advocate a cautious approach for anyone considering patronizing them.

    Does VPL management really stand behind this statement?
     
  12. May 21, 2004
  13. AgainstAllOdds

    AgainstAllOdds Dormant account

    Location:
    Denmark
    Thank you for the overwhelming response, both negative and positive. The problem for me is mainly these three issues:
    1. I have done nothing, as far as I can see that justifies me as an abuser (I will post in this thread what I have been playing and how much I have wagered in excess and on which games so that everybody can see that I have more than fulfilled the VPL's terms.
    2. This is really the most rude email I ever saw sent from a Cash-In manager(Brian), they are directly calling my friend an abuser and a bad apple without any reason. If they have a reason I would like to know exactly what it is, 'cause I can't see a problem. I have been playing over 100 online casino and nobody EVER called me an abuser before, simply because I am not. I have often lost own money and played for my own money, but when I play a promotional offer I always assume that I should stick to the terms and conditions, but that is obviously not enough when playin on VPL casinos and that bothers me.
    3. I see as a threat when stating that :"some casino's even confiscate the entire cash-in and lock the players account." I should be happy that they didn't confiscate 5000$ of mine?(I am of course) But this would be completly insane if a casino should do this. Then the casino would of course be shut down in a matter of hours...
    When playing VPL there is no way to know what games to play and how much to wager, because the T&C's are USELESS!! This tendency is simply NOT acceptable in my eyes, because then you're in serious trouble if you deposit money during a promotion, which you might not even know is running.
    That the three of us have recieved exactly the same mail also shows that this is a common thing that they send to everybody playing this promotion, or
    only to the people who wins!!? Unacceptable, I would say...
     
  14. May 21, 2004
  15. Clayman

    Clayman Dormant account

    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    I think CON locks your account after you are banned for bonus abuse, while complying with all terms. They don't confiscate your winnings though.
     
  16. May 21, 2004
  17. VPL

    VPL Casino Representative

    Occupation:
    Call Centre Manager
    Location:
    South Africa
    Dear AgainstAllOdds,

    Please understand:

    1) We at Vegas Partner Lounge Group, refuse to penalize our many loyal players, whether they be winners or losers, for the actions of a few that we deem to be abusive of our highly competitive bonus offers and comparatively low wagering requirements.

    2) We will continue to offer our initial and ongoing bonuses, which are some of the best in the industry, to our loyal players. We also endeavor to ensure that our Terms and Conditions for wagering are reasonable and attainable by our players.

    3) The few players, who we identify as being bonus abusers are sent an email alerting them to their abusive style of play. All bonuses and withdrawals prior this letter of warning are fully honored. All accounts are thoroughly reviewed before such a decision is made. Should the players style of play change after the email has been sent, the casino does review and address the situation accordingly.

    Please also note that your full withdrawal funds have been processed directly to you.

    Regards

    Vegas Partner Lounge
     
  18. May 21, 2004
  19. La$$eB

    La$$eB Dormant account

    Location:
    Denmark
    I agree 100% with A.A.O. I played your the bonus offer as well and my account was locked after only having played at your casino one single time! How can you state me as a bonus abuser when I have only played at your casino once!?

    I purchased 2000$ recieved 300$ and wagered a bit more than the wager requirement. The bonus offer is very risky since you have to wager as much as 23.000 and you cannot play Black Jack. I could easily have ended up loosing like 500$ of my own money. However I was saved by a Royal Straight Flush so I cashed out 2500$

    It seems quite obvious to me:
    1: If you play and loose it is ok, and you can continue recieving bonuses
    2: If you win it is not ok and you will not be able to recieve bonuses in the future:

    In your terms and conditions you state:
    However if a Danish player purchases $100 and gets a 15% ongoing bonus he would only have to wager 10 x ($100+$15) = $1150 like everyone else.
    This is not a large amount to wager considering that the average player will wager 40 X his original purchases during any one session.

    40 times!?!? How can you state something like that. People who wager their own deposit at least 40 times have a big problem and they need treatment in a place for addicted players:

    In other words you say that the average player is addicted an has a big problem with playing casinos...thats nonsense! I have played for more than 3 years and I keep on winning; simply because I mostly play for bonuses even though I play for my own money as well sometimes, if I like and trust the casino...

    Well, I think it would only be fair to give us an excuse for calling us bad apples and bonus abusers. At least you could have said it in a more polite and less rude way....

    Some time ago I was excluded from Casino On Net. It was a really polite and professional message I recieved and they didnt offend me in any way. Vegas Partner Lounge Could learn alot from that:

    Dear Member,

    According to the User Agreement you have with us, in the event that we believe that if a user is abusing or attempting to abuse a bonus or other promotion, or is likely to benefit through abuse or lack of good faith from a gaming policy adopted by us, then we may in our sole discretion, deny any bonus or promotion, or rescind any policy in respect of that user, either temporarily or permanently.

    This Email is to inform you that we have made a decision to deny you from obtaining any promotional bonuses from us in the future.

    This decision is prompted by your account activity (mostly based on depositing repeatedly during promotional events in order to cash out casino bonuses with minimal risks), which is highly inconsistent with our philosophy of rewarding players who take risks and enjoy gambling.
    Sincerely,
     
  20. May 22, 2004
  21. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    I got promotion barred there last year, but my account is not locked, I just cannot get any bonuses, and of course they paid my winnings and bonuses without any hassle. There was none of this nonsense about confiscating anything. I admit I enjoyed the promotions, but I always played a lot more than the minimum WR, and I don't consider playing BJ at $10-$20/hand as a low risk activity. I was just very lucky, I won ~$2500 playing ~$35000, maybe this is what they did not like.
     
  22. May 22, 2004
  23. Clayman

    Clayman Dormant account

    Location:
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Mine said

    "Dear Member,
    This is John McNally from the Security Department at Cassava Enterprises Ltd.
    According to your Agreement with us, we reserve the right to terminate your
    membership, at any time and for any reason, at our sole discretion.
    This is to inform you that we have made a decision to terminate your Casino-on-Net membership. This is because we found you to be abusing our generosity with regards to our bonus's.
    Please refrain from opening new accounts with Casino-on-Net and any of Cassava's casinos, as your gaming action is not welcome.
    This decision is prompted by your account activity, which is highly inconsistent with our philosophy of rewarding players who take risks
    and enjoy gambling.
    Please note that if there is any cashouts requests, it will be honoured.
    Sincerely,
    John McNally
    Cassava Enterprises Ltd
    This email is not visible to you."

    Then I wrote back and said that's OK with me and if they re-opened my account, I'd be happy to play without bonuses.

    They wrote back and said

    "My name is Ani from the Security Department at Cassava Enterprises Ltd.,
    in response to your email.
    Kindly note that as stated in the Legal warning section which you can
    find posted on the website, "In the event that Cassava believes a User
    is abusing or attempting to abuse a bonus or other promotion, or is
    likely to benefit through abuse or lack of good faith from a gaming
    policy adopted by Cassava then Cassava may, in its absolute discretion,
    deny, withhold or withdraw from a User any bonus or other promotion, or
    rescind any policy in respect of that User, either temporarily or
    permanently."
    Cassava reserves the right to terminate User's membership, at any time
    and for any reason, at its sole discretion, and in particular in case of
    any activity that may harm Cassava and/or its members including, but not
    limited to, fraud, abuse of bonuses and other promotions, frivolous and
    unsubstantiated claims, and misuse of casino's software.
    Upon termination by User or Cassava as above, Cassava shall refund User
    any funds which may be in User's account over and above any amount which
    may be owing to Cassava (if any). In any case, refund shall not exceed
    the initial Deposit made by User.

    Therefore we have permanently closed your account. Note that a cashout
    for the $100 remaining in your bankroll has been requested on your
    behalf. this will be processed in due course and sent to your Neteller
    account.
    Kindly refrain from opening any more accounts with us as they too will
    be blocked and the deposit not refunded.
    Regards,
    Ani Der-Galestanian
    Security Dept.
    Cassava Enterprises Ltd."

    Then I wrote and asked if Golden Reef was one of the accounts I couldn't open and they wrote back and said

    "I am Darren Malin at the Security Department at Cassava
    Enterprises(Gibraltar) Ltd.
    Thank you for your Email,
    I am glad you understand our position. Please do not open any account at
    Casino-on-net or Pacific Poker.
    Kind regards,
    Darren Malin
    Security Department,
    Cassava Enterprises (Gibraltar)Ltd
    This email is not visible to you. "

    In re-reading this back e-mail I was surprised to see the clause in bold above seemingly stating that it's their policy to not cash-out more than my deposit back. It would seem to say they confiscate winnings, though that was not the case in my case. The $100 I got back was money I had just won in a blind raffle the day before they chose to close my account, so I suppose they could have chosen to confiscate that but they didn't.

    I wonder if ECogra has any policy on locking accounts as opposed to just disallowing a player to participate in bonuses. My account remains inaccessible. Guess I was an extra-bad boy.

    I was shut-off after $4200+ in profit on $3200+ of bonuses (guessing almost $1000 of it blind luck in raffles) playing 3300+ hands and wagering about $42000 (average bet about $12) over a 22 month period. 98.76% payback.

    I have, however, since then, taken some small pleasure in the many, many happy faces of friends and acquaintances, after strongly recommending CON to them as a fair and reliable place to play. Which I believe it to be. Come to think of it, just this afternoon I again recommended them to a guy who played on a blackjack team in Atlantic City one summer in the 70's.

    I do believe I have cost them alot more dead than alive. :)
     
  24. May 22, 2004
  25. kniepm

    kniepm Dormant account

    Odd One:

    So you have been labeled a bonus abuser, so what? It sounds like you have taken advantage of theVPL bonuses a number of times and your winnings have never been withheld. They have now offended you. The key to your post is "I have played at over 100 casinos." So don't go back to the offensive ones, go play the other 100+. Go find a new casino and get a nice, fat sign up bonus.

    Don't take it personally. I'm sure you've been called worse in your lifetime than "bonus abuser."
     
  26. May 22, 2004
  27. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    Now that's what I call a thorough line by line response Caruso.

    The only thing that I could possibly add is that it never ceases to amaze me at the money these casino operators are obviously spending on this "BS" legaleese in precluding players from play. It should suffice to say that you are showing your inexperience in the industry VPL again.

    Time and time again these typs of operations are found tripping over dollar bills only to pick up pennies.

    In any event it is great to be out of that hospital and off that morphine. Hope all is well. Have a good one.
     
  28. May 23, 2004
  29. rowmare

    rowmare Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Webmeister and mom.
    Location:
    Vancouver Island
    To quote a poster whom I haven't seen in some time, "Would you like some cheese with that whine?"

    The casino sent a very eloquent and non-confrontational letter informing a player that, although he is welcome to play at the casino, they would not be given any more free money to wager with. As a business, a casino - whether on land or online - has the right to decide who they give money to.

    As for the email that was sent to the friend, I can't judge that, as it is out of context; we did not see the email(s) sent to the casino which provoked this response.

    As already stated earlier by clear-headed posters, they paid the winnings, didn't close the account and invited the player to continue patronising the casino, sans bonuses, and there are worse things to be called than "bonus abuser".

    Online casinos give away boat loads of cash to players, and in return they hope to acquire loyal players - but it's a business, and a business doesn't stay in the black by giving away something for nothing. They have to make judgements about whether to continue to give individuals bonus money or not. Sometimes they judge a player to be a bonus abuser when they aren't, but, hey, no one got hurt here. No one got ripped off or banned. No one was cheated.

    This post is not directed to the player who filed this thread, but to the incessant whiners who whorishly throw themselves at any chance to trash an online casino when it isn't justified.

    Give me a break! :axeman2:

    Now please pass the Midol. :oops:
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2004
    1 person likes this.
  30. May 23, 2004
  31. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    :lolup: That was a great post rowmare! :notworthy
     
  32. May 23, 2004
  33. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    It was a crap post - and I just figured out why, duuuh. "Rowmare" is an affiliate, and she carries a big fat Vegas Partner Lounge banner ad at the TOP of the Microgaming listings on her site - which looks like it took five minutes to stick together. Yes, I had to click through to check out if VPL were paying her bills as I suspected they were.

    "The casino sent a very eloquent and non-confrontational letter informing a player..."

    You obviously didn't even READ the letter in question, but it doesn't matter. LOL, it'll be a cold day in hell before the bought-and-paid-for opinions of this kind of affiliate carry any weight on quality forums.

    Go spam P4K, "rowmare". Smart people don't buy that affiliate bullshit.
     
  34. May 23, 2004
  35. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    For God's sake Caruso rein in your arrogance and discourtesy - why is it necessary for you to constantly bludgeon other members of this board with rudeness and aggression?

    By all means hold a contrary and even negative opinion on all and everything, but why not express yourself in a social manner - I'm sure you have the ability to do so.

    Rowmare has made good contributions on this board and does not deserve this kind of attack.
     
  36. May 23, 2004
  37. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    WTG as usual, Jet. Attack the man, not the message.

    Not much else to do in the circumstances - this, nor any other recent one.

    I'll confine myself to the facts.

    Justify this statement. Total BS.

    Like to get me out the picture, wouldn't you? Then you could go on peddling that Ecogra bull practically unchallenged. LOL, ain't gong to happen any time soon.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2004
  38. May 24, 2004
  39. caliban

    caliban Dormant account

    Location:
    Europe
    In my opinion, the post Rowmare sent to caruso was highly offensive.
    I think caruso critisized VPL quite justly.

    Cheers,

    Caliban
     

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