Vegas Red, Casino Tropez, Casino Del Rio-Nomination for Rogue

[thesmacker]

I have personally had my run ins with this group of casinos, I asked Del Rio if I could collect their sign up bonus prior to depositing, knowing that I had gotten a bonus from Tropez I thought I should ask to make sure. I was told no problem you can get the bonus by their phone support!!
You are required to wager a sum before you get the bonus, which I did, then asked again if I could now get the sign up bonus when to my shock they told me NO because I had bonus abuser tendencies. So before I signed up they told me I could get the bonus, then once I deposit and risked my own money they call me a bonus abuser and say I cant recieve the bonus.
Then to top it off they make me wager more of MY OWN money before I can cash in as they say it is written in their terms that even without a bonus they have wagering requirements.
I know of a few people this has happened to and reading in the forums recently with the opening of Vegas Red that they are denying payments to people which have fullfilled all the terms of their sign up bonus calling them a bonus abuser.
This group is displaying RTG qualities, with a total lack of respect for players.
I feel that in order to prevent other players from playing at these casinos, the Meister should tack them up on his rogue list for their unruley behavoir.
A group of casinos working together, sharing player information with eachother, and calling players bonus abusers and holding hostage their winnings when all requirements have been fullfilled is rogue behaviour defined to a t.
Anyone else who has sustained this type of player abuse from one of these casinos should share their info here so that we can see the number of players they have screwed over and get them placed on the Rogue list where they belong.

 

[mary]

If players who have been so screwed file a Pitch a Bitch, that'll get 'em Rogified.

 

[caps]

This stuff is such crap. I look forward to the day when this industry comes under meaningful regulation, and the folks who run these sorts of operations go back to fencing hot televisions and peddling knock-off watches.

 

[thesmacker]

Mary, with my own personnal experience I just sucked it up and wagered what they asked and cashed in. This is not a new phenomenon with this group, Im aware of at least a few people who had the same thing happen to them. If you look at winneronline, in this forum and any other forum you will see similar complaints in the past and ongoing right now. Unfortunately only a minority of online players are aware of sites like Casinomeister, so the extent that they do this will go unknown. Atleast rogueing them will make aware any new players at this site that they are a group who is not to be trusted. Ask Spear, he is flooded with complaints right now because of their latest casino venture, Vegas Red.

 

[venetian]

hmmm I have played quite a bit on Del Rio and hit a few royals on vp and they were great. I got my money in a week or so with no problems. I always take advantage of their bonus'. I hate to hear they may be a bad place to play.

 

[cipher]

A little more than a year ago I posted some very positive posts incident to Del Rio Casino as well as Carnival Casino and those posts were well deserved posts at that time. Since that time there has definitely been some serious backend changes incident to the Del Rio Casino.

What I've recently experienced with another of the IMPERIAL E-CLUB LIMITED group of casinos VEGAS RED will definitely keep me away from any of the IMPERIAL E-CLUB LIMITED GROUP, which includes DEL RIO CASINO, VEGAS RED, CASINO TROPEZ and CITY CLUB CASINO.

 

[thesmacker]

Check out this current debacle at this group.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[cipher]

Well there you have it folks. As far as I'm concerned VEGAS RED and PLAYTECH et. al., are making a concerted effort at becoming every bit as bad as any of the RTG licensees.

 

[kmartinusa]

Hi Gang-

I've never posted at on this board, and rarely if ever post anywhere.

I just wanted to relate my experience with Vegas Red Casino in order to provide some measure of balance to the impression that I got here and at WOL.

First, I've been playing online for four or five years. I have yet to be taken advantage of but have had three experiences that made me extremely uneasy. Vegas Red is one of these.

After carefully reading the T&C's I deposited $100 and recieved the $222 bonus. I then played through the wagering requirements and was able to cashout $375.

I then waited the four days, expecting the withdrawal to be deposited in my Netteller account either last Thursday or Friday. Four days led to eight. Sometime between four and eight days, I dropped by here and WOL to find out if opinions had changed. They did.

To make a long story longer, I became extremely uneasy and soon after came into contact with the gentleman who handles the marketing for the casino. Once he became aware of my situation, he saw to it that my claim was processed within minutes. I exchanged emails with him related to the casino and the recent controvercy and some of his responses are worth repeating.

I strongly believe that any business, including casinos, have the absolute right to make any business decision that they see fit. This includes changing the T&C's of bonus offers...so long as the change doesn't apply retroactively.

Here's some excerpts of our exchange:

"I acknowledge that the changes in T&C - adding games to those excluded from wagering - did cause problems for many reasons and the casino much regrets that confusion. To add further complications, technical implications of changing web pages are that some large ISP's mis-configure caching of web pages that store old versions for far too long, which may also have added to confusion as players viewed the T&C.
The most important and proper response for the casino was to immediately assure players, that they were to honor the terms at the time a player signed up - you said it better, and I quote "what you signed up for is what you get". The logistical implications of honoring this was the manual checking of player withdrawals against the time that they signed up, which unfortunately led to some delays in some player withdrawals. I have however been notified that this manual audit has now been completed and the back-log cleared."



One more thing that I think is important:

"I acknowledge that the casino cannot please everyone all the time, and that there will always be differences of opinion between players and casinos, especially regarding bonuses.
That said, I believe that the competitive nature of the business is such that only an honest operation that looks after it's players fairly will survive, as player acquisition costs are too high to be able to ignore retention."

more...

"Everyone involved in marketing Vegas Red, Tropez, and Del Rio works very hard and cares very much, so eyes are drawn to the boards.

... (the message boards) does sometimes provide feedback and alert the casino to genuine player concerns that might otherwise not be addressed, especially as some are reported on the boards but not to the casino directly."


In short, I believe that this casino is not a "rogue", a cheat, or has bad intentions. I just think that someone didn't think through the original T&C's very carefully and changing the terms mid-stream caused a flurry of problems.

Guys, sometimes these message boards get a bit nasty. My intention is not to re-ignite the controversy or to draw fire. I'm not in any way affiliated with this or any other casino. I'm just a player who has had the unusual opportunity to have come into direct contact with someone who makes decisions with this casino.

I guess that the bottom line is that I was pleased to have drawn his attention and was impressed with the quickness and sincerety of his response.

 

[cipher]

Kmartinusa,How many people do you actually think are going to believe this crock of s!*%?

In my opinion Vegas Red, Casino Tropez and Del Rio Casino have clearly demonstrated themselves to be nothging less than liars, cheats and thieves as well as anyone who hangs with them. Have a good day.

Cipher

 

[kmartinusa]

Cipher,

I was simply relating my personal experiences.

This kind of reply, "how many people do you actually think are going to believe this..."

is the very reason why I don't get involved in posting online. You don't know me, you have absolutely no justification whatsoever for questioning my integrity.

I also mentioned that I'm not interested in drawing fire. I'm simply stating the facts of my case as they occured in the interest of fairness.

You may choose not to believe the person with whom I am in contact with, but do not call my integrity into question. You have no basis for doing that with the possible exception of the usual "you've never posted before" attack.

We are all adults. Everyone is fully capable of making whatever decisions as they see fit. Not one person on this message board knows with absolute certianty what the truth of anyone else's experience is. You may be right, I may be right, or neither of us may be right. Again, the point of these message boards is to exchange information in order to make good decisions. I have no doubt that there are unscrupulous operators out there. I also have no doubt that there are equally unscrupulus players. We all frequent these boards mostly to keep informed. Getting in pissing contests amongst ourselves really does nothing but waste our time.

You very well may be right, they may be liars, cheats and thieves. My experience is exactly as I stated, I signed up, was granted the bonus, met the playing requirements and terms of the offer that I signed up under, cashed out, waited too long, recieved my winnings and then recieved a letter of explaination. That's it. The unusual personal attention and explaination of the recent problems was worth repeating in the interest of fairness in my opinion. I'm also factoring in the fact that City Club is still being advertised on the Wizard of Odds and the group is being advertised at Gonegambling. Looks like City Club is advertised here too. I base who I play with on these guys and Bryan's recomendations.

Again, this is exactly the reason why I have refrained from engaging in public message boards. I will go back now to "lurking" or whatever it's called and keep my experiences and correspondance private.

I have just wasted all of the time that I'm going to on this. I should have known better. This little exchange has made me sick to my stomach because I find myself defending myself when my only goal was to relate my personal experience in the interest of fairness.

And I'm not completely stupid. The guy that I was in contact with may be full of it. Who knows? Actions do speak louder than words though and I did recieve my winnings.

You have a good day too, sir.

(Message edited by kmartinusa on November 21, 2003)

 

[rowmare]

I emphasize with you, Kmartinusa.
It is a big gamble to post on some message boards.
Whatever your opinion is - and it was very elequently stated - it doesn't justify the rude treatment.
Whether or not I agree with your conclusion about said casinos, your post was the most intelligently written post I have seen here in some time.

 

[venetian]

I have to add my two cents here. I have had a great time on Del Rio. I play VP and recently won 2 royals there and was paid in just 5 days. In the last couple weeks I have not had much luck there at all, and when I started having second thought about them (mostly after reading this forum) I went there last night and found a $100 bonus waiting for me. I played, had good luck and cashed out $200! I am happy there. I have however had some terrible experiences elsewhere (Dice, Carnival and Grand Banks)and currently have Del Rio as my only Playtech site I play on. I think if we choose to play online we will all experience bad things from time to time. Tell them how you feel by not returning, go play somewhere else.

 

[vgyhnji]

For what its worth - I posted in another thread a week or so ago of my experience at Vegas Red.

As for VR I made a profit of $983 (over $12K turnover) playing VP with their 'sticky' bonus, so I think they are wonderful! - well no not really - how can I make a judgement on such a small snapshot of activity (and I'm yet to get paid!).

Perhaps if I play enough BJ at Inter I will make it pay.

Maybe if I go back to VR I will get busted.

But either way my limited experiences don't entitle me to make an informed decision regarding the fairness or otherwise of either.

I have since been paid in full with absolutely no hassle whatsoever. I received two e-mails from them to confirm my cash-in and then subsequently confirm process of the cash-in, a few days later the cheque turned up. In fact as cheque payments go they were extremely quick.

My opinions remain as above.

PS: Inter have busted me again!!!

Best of luck to all.

 

[bewitch]

I closed all my playtech casino accounts now. Only because I DO NOT want to become one of "bonus abuser" and waste my time and energy with the casino like this. This kind of huge bonus + "bonus abuse" label stuff will just make a REAL player leave.

Why? As a player, I can CHOOSE. If a casino can't afford offering the bonus or "changing" their mind later, they shouldn't even offer at first place or should just do private invitation.

A casino can success with excellent customer service and fast payout, like 32 Red, InetBet, SuperVegas, Crockfords or starcity. These casino didn't offer tons of bonus but great service and fair games to make players go back again and again.

MessageBoard can be nasty sometimes, but it's reality and any business should deal with it no matter they like it or not. But you can find A LOT OF great people at messageboard as well. At least, I did. In fact, I enjoy the messageboard more than playing at casino now. LOL~

BTW, I am one of player Vegas Red won't honor their original T&C and kept refusing my withdrawal. After all these go around and around, I got tired of it and gave up. I played their games and lost the $100 (My own fault). THEN them came to me few days later and said "SORRY! We will give you $20 for the mistake we made." I don't even fuss to fight anymore, just say "Bye" and bring my business to other place....

(Message edited by bewitch on November 21, 2003)

(Message edited by bewitch on November 21, 2003)

 

[caps]

kmartinusa-

Well done. I have no intention of playing at Vegas Red or any of its affiliates -- they are surrounded by too many questions and complaints, and there are too many other operations that appear to be problem-free. I'll just stick with the problem-free sites. But your post smells legitimate to me (the spammers and paid-apologists all have a similar style that makes them fairly easy to identify), and, if it is, it is both an appropriate and necessary counter to the sound and fury coming from the other direction. These message boards are intended to provide a forum for the full exchange of good information, and, under the circumstances, your post advances that goal every bit as much as the criticisms of Vegas Red.

 

[cipher]

Roware, I'm assuming you meant "empathize" rather than "emphasize" and if that's the case then good for you.

For anyone else who feels I've been a little rough on Kmartinusa then you'll need to look to someone other than myself for an apology. I said what I said, I meant what I said and I'll defend what I've said!

I'm sure it's more than comforting to those people that have been ripped-off by VEGAS RED, DEL RIO and CASINO TROPEZ to know that you've recieved your $375.00 as well as your additional bonus of $100.00 but that hardly wipes the slate clean for those players that have had thousands of dollars ripped off.

Kmartinusa I find it interesting that you would bring up CITY CLUB CASINO as I intentionally left them out of my original reply to you. It seems as though you've done your homework or so to speak on Imperial E-Club limited. Perhaps you might want to do an equal amount of checking with some of the other forums that have quite a bit to say about this group.

Lastly Kmartinusa, I'm really quite surprised that you havn't convinced this "gentlemen who handles the marketing for Vegas Red" to join in our conversations in an effort to iron some of this out. I know I've emailed these groups numerous times and I know for fact that other people have too, even to the extent of countless emails being sent to Playtech as well and guess what not one reply from any of them. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[vgyhnji]

One thing I'd like to add here.

All in all, its a damn shame that between them all Playtech casinos don't get their act together as regards honesty & reliabilty...

I know I've been p*/-+d off by Grand Banks & Black Widow, others by Vegas Red, Del Rio etc. On the other hand many have had good experiences at the same and others, the Meister even lists Kiwi & City Club on his Reputable list.

...reason - simple - in play I think its the slickest software out there.

Shame.

 

[cipher]

And PLAYTECH'S beat goes on. This is a post from this morning at WOL.

DonnaPe
Punter

Joined: Nov 2003
Hi everyone, I am writing in response to the recent threads about vegas red casino and I have a post to add that i got from kiwi casino. I won there and I had also played vegas red. The email is below
----


Dear Donna,

Before processing your withdrawal request we have noticed a pattern of bonus
abuse in your game sessions.

Due to this we have subtracted the bonus money that was given to you and your
winnings, processing only your original deposit.

We are truly sorry if there was any misunderstanding but we are obligated to
follow the company's policy.

The following is a statement directly from our "Terms of Use":

"The Casino reserves the right to refuse or rescind the bonus for any reason
including, but not restricted to, player abuse. In case of abuse, the Casino
reserves the right to discontinue player's membership and to prevent the player
from accessing the Casino in the future".

We do appreciate your interest in our casino and hope to see you at our tables.
However, we cannot credit any future bonuses to your casino account

Report Post | IP: Logged
Posts: 2

Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[kniepm]

Oh my god. These playtech casinos are starting to sound exactly like RTG casinos. This shite makes my blood boil!! :flamemad: .

I've been ripped off by Casino Extreme the same way. They offer the bonus, I accept, win some dough, request a cash-out, and receive only my original deposit. It is so freaking unfair when you accept a bonus, play the required amount and don't ever dip into the bonus, then they take your winnings.

The scam is that they will give you the bonus with no questions asked until you come out a winner. But keep losing and they'll happily match your deposits. I'm gambling my money, with no recourse if I'm not happy with how much they take from me. They are gambling their money only, if they don't like the outcome, they can just refuse to send my winnings. Then, they have the balls to tell my I'm not playing in the spirit of fair gaming. Just thinking about this makes my skull throb -- I'm going to explode!!

And these vague T&C's!!! "If we determine you may be a bonus abuser ..." Talk about a loophole you could drive a freaking Mac truck through!! Basically, they're saying, "Deposit your money, if you lose your money, we're happy. If you win some money from us we may pay you, depending on how we feel about you at the time you request your withdrawal." I suppose, if they wanted, they could decide anybody who has ever accepted any bonus is a bonus abuser. So they are looking for virgins who have never played anywhere else who are willing to make a deposit and accept their bonuses only to prolong the "fun" until the player wagers his last dime. (Play long enough, and you will lose it all.)

If you offer me a bonus, honor it, accept that I may win, I'll accept that I may lose. If you think I'm a bonus abuser (and proud of it), don't accept my deposit. What's so hard about that?

Up until this past spring, I was signing up with several casinos a month, accepting bonuses and winning at some, losing at others. I always play over the required playthrough, unless I lose my whole bankroll, and I don't just bet the minimum wagers. If I like the experience, I'll probably be back (with or without a bonus). That's why you're offering the bonus in the first place, to induce me to play at your casino and, if I like it, I'll be back. Lately I've only been playing at a few of the casinos were I've had decent luck and feel I have been treated fairly. (Of course, the monthly bonuses at Intercasino, Gold Club, Sands, and Omni are an incentive.) Even though I'll take advantage of the monthly bonuses, I'll still come back several times throughout the month and give them a shot at taking some of my money. I believe that's the true spirit of gaming and that seems to be the way a casino builds a loyal clientele that can keep them in business for years to come. When will these other bastards realize that by alienating their players, they're not doing themselves any favors? What a bunch of short-sighted idiots!

I could keep spewing casino hate on this subject all afternoon, but I'll stop now before my wrists cramp up.

To sum up, this issuse REALY PISSES ME OFF!!!

 

[spearmaster]

LOL.

Can't argue with you there. Personally, I am now sticking to a few casinos, and watching their deposit terms so as NOT to have to ask to get a bonus removed.

IE if a casino says 20% Neteller bonuses on purchases of $100 or more, I deposit $50 at a time - even if I have to do it repeatedly. I cannot be bothered to wait for support to remove it after I send them an email (though so far support at the casino I am playing at now has been quite quick).

But this is important for me, because lately I have switched to playing roulette (and having a huge run of success, go figure). Since roulette is almost never allowed for bonus play, I simply don't want the bonus.

On the other hand, if I am going to play slots, then I might take the bonus if the T&C is not outrageous.

Most important is that I do not ever play the minimum and cash out. At worst, I always try to exceed that amount by 50% or more.

I wrote an article on that somewhere... LOL... basically I've advised people never to do the playthrough and quit. This was two years ago, and people either haven't learned this fact or they haven't read my article LOL.

 

[love2vegas]

Spearmaster- I agree with you. Seems that it would be best to have a lawyer handy to "cipher" some of the terms that the casinos come up with and just when you think you know them all, someone comes up with something different (i.e. "You must have $50 minimum to cash out" "You must wager your bonus & deposit a minimum of 20X, but BJ & VP will only count 1/3 of the requirement"-60X playthrough!- Or " You must sign over your first born child as collatoral until we determine that you may not be a bonus abuser or until you lose all your money, whichever may come first"! What I can't understand or agree with is "WHY"? Why offer the bonuses if they really don't plan to pay? Why do you need to exceed the minimums when they have already obviously slanted the requirements in their favor? If it takes the average player 20X to lose their deposit & bonus, why should I have to play 30X? It seems that at times, the casinos are trying to outdo each other on who can come up with the trickiest terms to entice unsuspecting players. Thankfully forums such as this help us to at least point out some of the tricks & the outright dishonest cheats.

 

[ohwho]

I'm very disappointed to hear the many complaints about this group of Casinos. I've played at Casino Tropez for about 2 years and had No Problems.... great customer service and Fast Payouts. Last week I cashed out $250 and had it in my Neteller acct 3 days later. I didn't see any complaints about Casino Tropez in this thread... could it be that they are an honest casino that is, unfortunately, affiliated with a bunch of rogues? I hope this isn't just 'wishful thinking' on my part - I really enjoy playing at Tropez.
PLEASE NOTE: I'm not, in any way, doubting the experiences of all that have posted here. I've had similar problems with a couple of other online casinos and know how frustrating (to say the least) it is.

 

[The Dude]

kmartinusa - welcome to the forum. Cipher, I agree with kmartinusa that he was conveying information. It's up to everyone reading this to either believe it or not. Veracity should not be challenged in this respect.

I advertise for City Club Casino and have no problems in doing so. If there are unresolved complaints or grievances from players, then they should let me know. I have never received a player complaint concerning CCC. Same goes for Kiwi Casino. They've been listed here at Casinomeister since they opened their doors about three years ago, and not one complaint.

As for bonuses, these are the curse of the industry. Personally I avoid them at all costs, except for the standard sign up bonus. And I would recommend everyone else to do the same. It's wrong to provide cryptic Ts&Cs; it's total BS.

 

[cipher]

Well let's just give CITY CLUB CASINO a shot. I'm depositing $300.00 after I post this message with the intentions of not taking any bonuses that might be offered by CITY CUB CASINO.

I havn't played there since June 2, 2003 so I'm assuming that I don't have any retro wagering requirements to satisfy.

Additionally, I will be playing Blackjack only initially in the hopes of putting a little nest egg together with which to rip their face off.

If I'm successful at that I'll be requesting a withdrawal. So lets just see what happens. Have a good one.

Cipher