Vegas Joker and Vegas Country not paying!!

[spearmaster]

For 500 euro's its not worth it for me to Pitch a Bitch. That's three times what Old Samurai owes me. I'm good with just the complaint in the message board for everyone to see who may be thinking about playing at the Vegas Affiliates group. As well as all the other message boards I will be posting at if my winnings are not paid out. Also why is it so easy for a casino to just use the word fraud to steal your money. How is fraud even committed. You go to the casino and play their games the way they are set up. Don't all casino's have the house advantage in their favor on every game. Some games just have a higher house advantage than others, so you would expect to win more on the higher HA games, wouldnt you? So what if some people get lucky and win some money, it's going to happen. The casino just pouts because a few people won some money so they say fraud was suspected, so we're keeping your money. Do they do this same stuff on people who win big money? Apparently so, because there is another thread in this same forum about a player who won a couple thousand on a slot and his winnings were kept. Yes, the same Vegas Affiliate group.

It doesn't cost you 500 Euros to PAB if you have a legitimate beef. It only costs you 500 Euros if you abuse the privilege and CM's time by filing a PAB under false pretenses.

 

[The Dude]

For 500 euro's its not worth it for me to Pitch a Bitch. That's three times what Old Samurai owes me. I'm good with just the complaint in the message board for everyone to see who may be thinking about playing at the Vegas Affiliates group. As well as all the other message boards I will be posting at if my winnings are not paid out. Also why is it so easy for a casino to just use the word fraud to steal your money. How is fraud even committed. You go to the casino and play their games the way they are set up. Don't all casino's have the house advantage in their favor on every game. Some games just have a higher house advantage than others, so you would expect to win more on the higher HA games, wouldnt you? So what if some people get lucky and win some money, it's going to happen. The casino just pouts because a few people won some money so they say fraud was suspected, so we're keeping your money. Do they do this same stuff on people who win big money? Apparently so, because there is another thread in this same forum about a player who won a couple thousand on a slot and his winnings were kept. Yes, the same Vegas Affiliate group.

Ditto what Spear said.

PAB is free of charge - I accept no cash, no cut of winnings (if collected), nada. The only thing I ask for is for you to sign up to my newsletter (so you can become a learned player) and have an account in the forum. That's not asking much at all considering what this is worth to you.

The idea that they don't want to pay winners is crap. This is lesson one of online casino management - pay your winners. They all know this. Minivegas casino group has thousands of players and rakes in cash on a monthly basis that would make your head spin. To pay you - or others with legitimate pay inquiries probably wouldn't dent their cash flow in the least bit. It would be like a mosquito bite on an elephant.

But what they won't do is pay illegitimate winnings due to breaking terms and conditions or fraud (or both). They will lock your account and cease communicating. This is standard operating procedures and it's the equivalent of being shown the door by the casino security dudes at the Bellagio.

What I can do is to have the casino review your case to make sure that they did not make a mistake on closing your account. Mistakes have been made in the past - it wouldn't be the first time. I would suggest PABing - or if you feel uncomfortable with that, submit a complaint via Tex Rees at eCOGRA.

Slagging off on a casino in public will only worsen your situation if you want anybody to do something about it.

 

[tim5ny]

Was a time not very long ago when you could play most any Microgaming casino with confidence knowing you'd be paid. Guess those days are over. These casinos are having to operate at a much lower profit margin than they had been accustomed to when the U.S. players were filling their pockets with green. They don't want to give any of it back anymore, so I predict you'll be seeing alot more of these stalling tactics and player investigations from now on by certain groups that were formerely thought of as good casinos.

 

[terrellk11]

FYI - I did submit a PAB yesterday.

I can understand how people can commit fraud by messing with deposits and withdrawals (cancelling payments and such); I can see how people can commit fraud in games where collusion is possible (poker players cheating using IM to collude with each other); I can see people abusing bonuses in ways that casinos might consider to be a fraudulent manner (though calling this fraud is a bit much if the player follows the casinos T&C).

I don't see how I can commit fraud playing slot machines. I also can't understand why if they think I committed fraud they are still sending me emails trying to get me to deposit and play games at their sites. Seems a bit contradicotry to me.

 

[rabiddog]

CM, sorry, I stopped reading the PAB when I saw the 500 euro's. I'll go back and look it over and probably will be filing. But let me ask first. Since VegasVIP Lounge is looking into this already, and he's the casino group rep on this board, what more can you do that he can't?

 

[sorry4me]

I just received a refund of my initial deposit today in my neteller acount. I still haven't received a reply to my inquiry as to why my account is locked. Funny thing is they also sent me a promo email today! I'm confused! I'm happy to get my original deposit back but I would sort of like my winnings as well. However, I would at least like a response from the casino.

 

[rabiddog]

CM, PAB has been sent as per your suggestion.

Thanks

Edit: Woops, sorry CM. It looks like I sent duplicate PAB's. I thought that was the preview of the PAB and hit my back button to add Vegas Affiliates to the name of the casino and then resent it. My mistake.

 

[RedKaos]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeepeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

Later is better than never.
I have been paid!!!

Yes!!

 

[rabiddog]

Alright, good for you

 

[Ferretktf]

I have now filed an ecogra dispute

 

[Gaahl]

Congratulations RedKaos! Im still struggling to get paid my winnings tho :\

Hope they can realize that it is unacceptable to withold winnings from people fortunate enough to finaly win at a casino.. First you have to worry about winning, then you have to worry about beeing paid. That isnt they way it should be. (You should only have to worry about winning, and that is hard enough )

Btw. Did you have any email contact with them after you put the complaint out on this forum? What made them change their minds and pay you?

 

[sorry4me]

Well ... I guess I'm going to accept that I'm not going to get paid by Coliseum Casino. I would pursue this some more but it doesn't look like anyone else (besides Red) is having any luck with this group of casinos and they won't even respond to me. This is my first experience with actual non payment (I once was slow paid by Club Player ... but they eventually paid up & they answered my emails ... the quality of the replies were suspect but at least they were replies) I sort of feel powerless in this matter but I'm sure that these business practices will eventually reap there proper reward ... I hope!

Good luck to the other victims at this forum!

PS As a US player, I really miss Intercasino and many of the other reputable casinos that I used to be allowed to play at. I guess it's all downhill from here! At least I have CM's webcasts to sooth me in my distress.

 

[sorry4me]

Wow .. they just paid me! I still have no clue what happened. I give them credit for doing the right thing, however I still wish they had communicated better. Still ... I received my money so I am happy. Thanks!

 

[sorry4me]

Finally ... a respose from the casino!

Dear Sorry4me,

Casino account: clrxxxxxxxx

Colosseum Casino would like to express its sincerest regret over the recent dispute that has arisen between our Casino Group and you.

Following an in-depth investigation of your case, Colosseum Casino discovered that you were partaking in what can only be described as exploitative and abusive playing activities. Whilst the Management initially took the decision to lock your casino account and refund your initial deposits, criticism from the wider gaming community has prompted Colosseum Casino to reappraise its recent actions.

In turn Colosseum Casino has decided to unlock your account and has now paid you your outstanding "winnings". Please note that Colosseum Casino reserves the right to take whatever actions it sees as necessary should you be identified as displaying any further signs of engaging in exploitative playing activities.

Kind Regards
Eprocessing Services
On Behalf of Colosseum Casino

Website: www.eprocessingservices.com

Ah ... Ok ... Well ... ??? ... Thanks for paying me my winnings and contacting me to explain your actions.

 

[soflat]

you were partaking in what can only be described as exploitative and abusive playing activities

How did you abuse them?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Pray tell

Please tell,
We are all puzzled by this. In a reply to the forum we have been told this was not Fraud, nor was it a scam, and it was not even bonus abuse!

The only clue was that it was a winning slots system, one which has now been elevated from the status of "snake oil", to one of potential interest by the admission by word and action from the casino, that it actually WORKS!

One player at least suggests that a bonus is not required!
The only LEGAL slot systems of that nature are all based on the games having a non-random element to them that can be exploited by the knowledgeable player. This is not something I have been lead to believe is a factor in games from reputable software companies such as Microgaming.

 

[soflat]

Please tell,
We are all puzzled by this. In a reply to the forum we have been told this was not Fraud, nor was it a scam, and it was not even bonus abuse!

The only clue was that it was a winning slots system, one which has now been elevated from the status of "snake oil", to one of potential interest by the admission by word and action from the casino, that it actually WORKS!

Yeah, and if there is a secret you don't have to give up the whole thing.

It is something so incredible that the casino cannot mention it and they have never seen before

But it wasn't cheating, or any of the usual culprits.

Was it a system?

A syndicate?

Or what?

Why were you guys all playing the same game? Or were you?

 

[sorry4me]

I believe that this group was indeed hit by some fraudulent players this past summer as has been mentioned in various threads. I also believe this casino group is now trying correct a recent mistake. My greatest criticism concerned their non-responsive behavior. This is probably a form letter that was sent to all the accounts that were locked and then reopened. Anyways, I'm satisfied now that I have received a response and that I have been paid the money that I won while playing at their casino. As for my play, I would like to say that I am the first one in history to devise some grand betting system that can beat a casino game, however that would be ridiculous. Anyways, this group appears to be paying their players now and that's a good thing. Hopefully, they will continue to reform their image since it is very upsetting to see Microgamining mentioned on the Rogued list.

Edit: To specifically answer some of the questions raised while I was typing my original response, which is more likely, a casino made a mistake or that their is some secret system or grand conspiracy? Come on! This is a forum for discussing complaints and casinos not a conspiracy theory forum ... right?

 

[eeeee]

Reasonable casino behavior -
Accept $, Accept Bets, Ban, Pay, then Change the deal after learning lessons

Questionable casino behavior -
Accept $, Accept Bets, Delay payment through ruses and bans and redirects and document requests, Obscure and misinterpret the deal, finally Pay

Unreasonable casino behavior -
Accept $, Accept Bets, Ban, then Ignore and keep all funds



There are many other casinos that follow the Reasonable path. You don't hear about them here.

Questionable behavior is typically dealt to an advantage player about 20% of the time. Not OK, but to be expected now and then. No pleasure play for you!

I've played a ton of places, and avoided Unreasonable casinos/poker rooms all but twice. There's no excuse for it.

I'm not sure I can imagine fraud, unless it has to do with misrepresented ID with bonuses or code hacking. Please elaborate if I'm wrong. 'Fraud' label cannot fairly be applied to

• lucky winners,
• bonus abusers,
• advantage players,
• or vinylweatherman's 'non-random event.'

The casinos have ALL the advantages, and have no moral qualms taking amazing amounts of money from sick or stupid clients. Can you think of ONE advantage the player has, other than entertainment? The only time the player has an advantage is when the casino GIVES them an advantage. And then the casino keeps all the money too, then acts indignant and claims fraud and shuts down player contact? Bad, wrong, evil! :icon_evil

From minVegas begrudging tone and silence of the details, I conjecture MG somehow forced miniVegas to pay out, or even subsidized the payout to protect their overall reputation. IF so, and as intimated in the rep's post, in the future miniVegas will behave in the same unpredictable, untrustworthy way. And MG is brilliant, if they did this -- they cut potential losses to their brand image and damage to the entire industry.

MG :notworthy
miniVegas :sniper:

 

[VegasVIP Lounge]

A Statement From The Minivegas Group

The Minivegas Group of which the Vegas Joker and Vegas Country Casinos are members, has issued the following statement:

The Minivegas Group would like to express its sincerest regret over a recent dispute that has arisen between the Casino Group and a number of players that are known to have been partaking in what can only be described as exploitative and abusive playing activities.

Following an in-depth investigation of this case, the Minivegas Group initially took the decision to lock the offending player's accounts and refund their initial deposits.
Although the Minivegas Group knows that this was the correct and just response to the actions of the players in question, criticism from the wider gaming community has prompted it to reappraise its recent actions. In turn the Minivegas Group has decided to pay the offending players their winnings. The Minivegas Group would like to emphasise that the circumstances relating to this case are quite different from any other that it has encountered before. The casino group cannot release full details relating to this case due to the implications it holds for its partners and for the wider security of the Casino.

The players involved in these illegitimate playing activities have been both highly organised and inventive in their methods. Therefore, although their accounts will be reopened and winnings paid, the Minivegas Group reserves the right to take whatever actions it sees as necessary should these players display any further signs of engaging in exploitative playing activities.

Finally, the Minivegas Group would like to once again emphasize that it pays millions of winners every year without delay or hassle. It is a fact that wherever the Casino Group has made a genuine error, it has always done all that it can to compensate the players in question.

 

[wolfman]

We read that in another thread a couple of days ago. What are you trying to achieve by copying an old post into multiple threads? A very poor and ill-thought out response to all the questions that have been asked since you posted it the first time.

 

[catcat941]

wierd , dont they have ecogra?

its wierd , arnt they affiliate with vegaspokercasino ? should the y not b ok over that? unless closing up

 

[vinylweatherman]

its wierd , arnt they affiliate with vegaspokercasino ? should the y not b ok over that? unless closing up

Do you have some kind of agenda. This thread is from 2006, nearly FOUR YEARS AGO.

CLEARLY, they have NOT "closed up" because of this issue.

I know EXACTLY what happened, and have even posted the details after MGS fixed it at the end of the year (after waiting a while just in case).

If you can find this thread, I am sure you can dig out my explanation, and dredge that thread up too.

I have noticed that you have made similar remarks on a number of threads, and this is why I am wondering if you have some kind of agenda, such as having been ripped off by a casino.