Variance Discussion (Split from "New Game at 3Dice" Thread)

silcnlayc

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And then we're back to the good old variance discussion...
As I'm no longer a costumer there, I won't say anything about the new game, but....this is excactly what I was talking about in the older 3Dice thread....if they make lower variance games, where each individual win HAS to be smaller, to give MORE wins...You don't have more money to pass out to players, so you can't have more AND big wins at the same time
It's either or
I do not give a rats patootie on what is called variance..

This is not just about 3Dice, there are few casino groups that like toying with peoples monies...and giving back squat....

Lets speak English...I put in over $50 bucks to get back $20-$30...in return during a bonus round..that is a BAD return..has NOTHING to do with any thoughts on VARIANCE! No one is asking for more smaller wins...geezes, how much smaller can they get , really! 9 cents, 18 cents etc..that is a JOKE and an insult to ANY player...

I figure there has got to be a nice one in there because it shows there is and I continue plugging in monies when I hit a nice one as I did, and then get piddly return...that is called SUCKY.....ripoff or whatever one wants to call it ...

I do not sit there thinking, ahhh, I hit 2 or three small ones (when I invested double of what I won), so the variance will be this or that...

C'mon, people, get real..I sit there and spin to ENJOY my play and when a big one hits I expect to be PAID for it..because I INVESTED all my funds to CATCH it..Do you UNDERSTAND now????


I do not like being TOYED with...if they promise a BIG one, then it should be THERE when one hits a combo to get it and they do PROMISE the big one, not just 9 cents, 18 cents etc, see the payouts for all games...HELLO!

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Simmo!

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I do not give a rats patootie on what is called variance..

This is not just about 3Dice, there are few casino groups that like toying with peoples monies...and giving back squat....

Lets speak English...I put in over $50 bucks to get back $20-$30...in return during a bonus round..that is a BAD return..has NOTHING to do with any thoughts on VARIANCE! No one is asking for more smaller wins...geezes, how much smaller can they get , really! 9 cents, 18 cents etc..that is a JOKE and an insult to ANY player...

I figure there has got to be a nice one in there because it shows there is and I continue plugging in monies when I hit a nice one as I did, and then get piddly return...that is called SUCKY.....ripoff or whatever one wants to call it ...

I do not sit there thinking, ahhh, I hit 2 or three small ones (when I invested double of what I won), so the variance will be this or that...

C'mon, people, get real..I sit there and spin to ENJOY my play and when a big one hits I expect to be PAID for it..because I INVESTED all my funds to CATCH it..Do you UNDERSTAND now????


I do not like being TOYED with...if they promise a BIG one, then it should be THERE when one hits a combo to get it and they do PROMISE the big one, not just 9 cents, 18 cents etc, see the payouts for all games...HELLO!

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Sil...you seem on a real downer recently. I noticed all your recent posts are from the negative end of the life magnet. Hope everythings OK?

Anyway, I'll go easy on you on this one ;) I can see what you are saying about enjoying a game - and that should be the most important thing for a slots player (online or on land) because winning is tougher with games of chance.

The reason casino software providers have games like this at the low end, and games like Tut at the high end, is to give players variation. Some people like low variance slots that keep you ticking over - it's their definition of enjoyment which as we just agreed, is the aim of the game. Others, myself included, find them boring and prefer high variance where you win f*** all for ages, then hit an adrenaline rush.

If all slots all played the same, we'd get bored and stop losing money, go outside and see things like the sun and stuff. Yeurggh! Who wants to do that, ffs? :D
 

silcnlayc

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Sil...you seem on a real downer recently. I noticed all your recent posts are from the negative end of the life magnet. Hope everythings OK?
Not at all! Actually , I have been having a wonderful month, even at 3Dice...
Others, myself included, find them boring and prefer high variance where you win f*** all for ages, then hit an adrenaline rush.
But that's the point I am trying to make...the ones that are f*** all for ages aren't giving it up either when you hit it with the RIGHT combo! And no one is understanding THAT!

I am of the mindset of not worrying myself with the little win things, but when I go on a huge losing streak..(which I did) and then CATCH the little booger that is SUPPOSED to pay a nice sum (YOUR high variance theme thing)and it doesn't...I want to ask, what is THAT called...it is not any kind of VARIANCE (I truly hate that word because it means nothing to players like me and there are millions like me!)

When I play and plug in money continuously and lose for the chance to hit a GOOD sum and then get garbage when I do hit it which cost me an arm and a leg., that is truly a RIPOFF because in my mind, if you hit the COMBO for the reward and it isn't forthcoming...tell me what YOU would call it???

It is like when I went to a landbased casino..playing the 10x10x10 machine and caugt the 10x10x Triple Bars...I caught the big one after plugggin in a bunch of money...and it CAME through!

Same with other slots..that are hard as the devil to catch...they come through with the payoff when hit in the right combo..

I guess what I am trying to say is I payed for the EXPECTATION and I paid a big price but for some reason, it has not been achieved..even when caught at these online casinos, even with their promises in the paytables...

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Simmo!

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...and then CATCH the little booger that is SUPPOSED to pay a nice sum (YOUR high variance theme thing)and it doesn't...I want to ask, what is THAT called...it is not any kind of VARIANCE

When you say "supposed" to pay a nice sum, do you mean you "assumed" it would pay a nice sum because its the top pay or something? If so, I don't really get where you are coming from. Like it or loathe it, that is exactly what variance is. It's what it's supposed to be and it's what makes slot games different. You'll probably find the bonus round has high-X multipliers or something to offset the smaller line-pays. Or do you mean the paytable says it will pay X but it doesn't? Which I guess is a bug. :confused:

So this may sound very condescending and apologies in advance, but you say you don't like variance, you don't want to hear it, but I'm not sure you fully understand it or even want to understand it - not necessarily through any fault of your own - because there is no other answer to what you are saying apart from the games are rigged and if you thought that, then you wouldn't be playing there. So I am confused...

It's like saying "Why's it so hot today and don't tell me it's because the sun's out" :D
 

silcnlayc

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but I'm not sure you fully understnd it,
I don't, and that is what I am saying..saying variance to me and a million others is just what you said below!
It's like saying "Why's it so hot today and don't tell me it's because the sun's out"
Which gave me a nice chuckle I will say because that IS what I am understanding! It is the dead of winter and there is ice all around...how is that hot?? :rolleyes:


Maybe I cannot express what I am trying to say but I will sit back and figure out just what I am trying to get across..it's a tuffie..but I now have a goal...hopefully I can express it to where it is understood...because I know I am not the only one with this exasperated feeling with these online slots..the promises of a nice LARGE hit...etc...and NEVER coming through for the average joe no matter how much is being invested..when caught!

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Simmo!

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LOL ok.

What I will add is this though, in case it helps:

Normally when you see a slot with lots of small wins on line-pays, there is a bonus round which gives lots of free spins, the possibility of high multipliers or big prizes. This is where "variance" is a factor. To give you the potential for a big bonus win, it has to cut back on the line pays in the normal game.

Often you will see 5 scatters pay 500x or more, and then a huge drop to 20x for 4 etc. The gaps between 5 of a kind and 4 of a kind, and 4oak to 3oak, can be one good indicator of variance. Where the gap is big, chances are the variance is higher.

And to clarify: higher variance means you need a bigger bankroll, or to place smaller bets, to hang in for as long as you can waiting for the biggie. Most common problem? People run out of cash before the big hit arrives.

Put $1000 into Thunderstruck or Ladies Nite and play at $9 a spin and you'll be down the ATM inside 30 minutes 9 times out of 10 - or buying lots of designer clothes on the 10th time. Put that $1000 into Tomb Raider II and play at $9 a spin and you'll probably still be there when the sun sets but never having won enough to go shopping for the designer goods.

Which one classifies as entertainement? Everyone will differ.
 

Tengil

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LOL ok.

What I will add is this though, in case it helps:

Normally when you see a slot with lots of small wins on line-pays, there is a bonus round which gives lots of free spins, the possibility of high multipliers or big prizes. This is where "variance" is a factor. To give you the potential for a big bonus win, it has to cut back on the line pays in the normal game.

Often you will see 5 scatters pay 500x or more, and then a huge drop to 20x for 4 etc. The gaps between 5 of a kind and 4 of a kind, and 4oak to 3oak, can be one good indicator of variance. Where the gap is big, chances are the variance is higher.

And to clarify: higher variance means you need a bigger bankroll, or to place smaller bets, to hang in for as long as you can waiting for the biggie. Most common problem? People run out of cash before the big hit arrives.

Put $1000 into Thunderstruck or Ladies Nite and play at $9 a spin and you'll be down the ATM inside 30 minutes 9 times out of 10 - or buying lots of designer clothes on the 10th time. Put that $1000 into Tomb Raider II and play at $9 a spin and you'll probably still be there when the sun sets but never having won enough to go shopping for the designer goods.

Which one classifies as entertainement? Everyone will differ.

You would bust faster playing TR2 if it would be as fast as Thunderstruck IMO.

And most of the variance obviously comes from the features. I have approx 120-130 features on Isis and clones with 3 features paying over 200x and not a single one over 500x. So a big bankroll (in relation to betsize) always (most of the times) doesnt help, you just end up losing more due to the massive HE.

Therefore bigger bets in relation to your roll is a far better choice IMO.
 

Simmo!

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You would bust faster playing TR2 if it would be as fast as Thunderstruck IMO.

And most of the variance obviously comes from the features. I have approx 120-130 features on Isis and clones with 3 features paying over 200x and not a single one over 500x. So a big bankroll (in relation to betsize) always (most of the times) doesnt help, you just end up losing more due to the massive HE.

Therefore bigger bets in relation to your roll is a far better choice IMO.

ISIS..ah memories. I used to play that a lot. Same results as you pretty much for 2 years. Until last August when I hit the feature for $49,000 from a $12.50 bet. Very high variance. Patience is a virtue best suited to high variance slots players ;)
 

silcnlayc

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Until last August when I hit the feature for $49,000 from a $12.50 bet. Very high variance. Patience is a virtue best suited to high variance slots players
OK, you were patient (as I am) and you CAUGHT the BIG one (as I thought I did a few times but were duds )...but how many times did you CATCH it, before it gave up the BIG one?? This is where I am floundering because to me, this would mean you will get it each and every time for the patience and the COST...no?? Or are they duds in between...and that is where I feel I am being mistled?

Because CATCHING the big one takes HUGE amounts of money (as you said, big bankroll) and to get a dud..is the most defeating kind of game there is! So, hitting the bonus round on a high variance does not gurantee and big payout yes??? (if this is yes...then what IS the point) Geez....going back to venus...I really am not a stupid person..I feel if one hits a high variance game with all the money invested there should be no DUDS, and I KNOW there is cause I hit them EVERY time I CAUGHT one (big one that is)!

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Deeplay

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Sorry silcnlayc but gotta agree with simmo on the fact most of your posts as of late seem to be in the "venting" frame of mind. As if all casinos are crooked. Maybe just a bad roll your on , hope not but if it gets to much maybe a break would be good. I take them myself quite a few times.

As for 2dice i dont play their at the moment but its good to see them get a new game out. I think it will need a good work through though to see whats it made of.
 

silcnlayc

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Today 04:37 PM
doomed4ever
: Sorry silcnlayc but gotta agree with simmo on the fact most of your posts as of late seem to be in the "venting" frame of mind. As if all casinos are crooked.
Naw...I even posted some nice screenies..it's this UNDERSTANDING stuff you people keep throwing at us non grasping people that think that if a slot hits, it should pay...what a novel IDEA we non speaking funny stuff people think! geez...but then we get a lot of mumbo jumbo that really is not in our language (venutian and mars)...and that is where the frustration comes in...and I guess the so called "VENTING" you say and as did Simmo!)...

But at least Enzo and Simmo! has tried to speak the language and I think it is finally becoming more clear for and through me for others hopefully ( I have taken the brunt of the ridicule but that is ok :rolleyes:)...not that I am liking it..but I am not as frustrated as before..in UNDERSTANDING...whew....

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LaHutti

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OK, you were patient (as I am) and you CAUGHT the BIG one (as I thought I did a few times but were duds )...but how many times did you CATCH it, before it gave up the BIG one?? This is where I am floundering because to me, this would mean you will get it each and every time for the patience and the COST...no?? Or are they duds in between...and that is where I feel I am being mistled?

Because CATCHING the big one takes HUGE amounts of money (as you said, big bankroll) and to get a dud..is the most defeating kind of game there is! So, hitting the bonus round on a high variance does not gurantee and big payout yes??? (if this is yes...then what IS the point) Geez....going back to venus...I really am not a stupid person..I feel if one hits a high variance game with all the money invested there should be no DUDS, and I KNOW there is cause I hit them EVERY time I CAUGHT one (big one that is)!

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ok...just to try and make it a bit clearer to you Silc....
if you're playing Moolah in 3Dice, as was the case when we talked about this in the 3Dice thread, you hit the 5 keys, and you expected the big one, but it didn't come. That was because you really didn't "hit" it yet. You hit the "chance" to hit it, so the variance thing doesn't end with the 5 keys...you have to get to the last canon before you can say you "hit" it.
Same thing with Simmo's $49K hit ...eventhough you may hit the bonus round, doesn't mean you hit the big one....Simmo nailed the bastard by FIRST hitting the bonus round @ $12 bet, and THEN hit "the big one" DURING the bonus round. He really beat variance good that day, but that happens 1 in million, if that.
Whether you like it or not, variance IS the answer to all your questions, assuming we're talking honest casinos and honest play...and that comes down to whether you trust them or not, since we have no chance in hell checking if they're honest or not (And they KNOW that). I trust some of them, and some of them, I have no doubt, that they're not being honest, so I stay clear of those.
 

Simmo!

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So, hitting the bonus round on a high variance does not gurantee and big payout yes??? (if this is yes...then what IS the point) Geez....going back to venus...I really am not a stupid person..I feel if one hits a high variance game with all the money invested there should be no DUDS, and I KNOW there is cause I hit them EVERY time I CAUGHT one (big one that is)

No such thing as a guarantee in any game of chance, except that you will lose over the long term. What high variance does (in this argument) is give you a higher AVERAGE return in the bonus round. With the odd monster every X times (X = 5, 50, 500 depends on the game). If you're lucky.

Progressive Jackpot games are a perfect example. You're playing for the CHANCE to win a big hit. You can see what that hit is in neon flashing up top. You know you'll probably never hit it, you know the payout on the machine is lower, but you still play it.

The machine you want is something that gives you what you expect, on time, to schedule. It needs to follow a pattern to give you what you are asking for. You'll play it for 5 minutes and come out 5% down. You'll play it for one hour and come out 5% down. You'll play it every day for a month and end up 5% down.

Sounds great :D


PS. Might split this off into a seperate thread as we have gone OT.
 

RobWin

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What you guys have failed to mention though is the fact that if the casino changes the RTP on certain games to a higher percentage which in turn also lowers the house edge hold, then the end result will be a more positive and a more player friendly variance bell curve! ;)

Standard deviation being the square root of variance, change the deviation of the RTP to a higher positive figure, you will also change the high variance to perform more in the players favor.
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GGW Laurie

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What you guys have failed to mention though is the fact that if the casino changes the RTP on certain games to a higher percentage which in turn also lowers the house edge hold, then the end result will be a more positive and a more player friendly variance bell curve! ;)

Standard deviation being the square root of variance, change the deviation of the RTP to a higher positive figure, you will also change the high variance to perform more in the players favor.
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Oh hell, just do like me, put your money in and cross your fingers and hope lady luck hasnt left the building:D


This is what i honestly think, if a casino, any casino, has made a great or not so great profit that day on any certain slot, they can lower or raise the RTP to make it look good for their records, the house cant win all the time, just like the player, wish i was a math geek but im not, just a someone who enjoys hitting the spin button for entertainment and looks forward to some nice playing time for my hard earned money:)..................laurie
 

Mavin1

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Sorry silcnlayc but gotta agree with simmo on the fact most of your posts as of late seem to be in the "venting" frame of mind. As if all casinos are crooked. Maybe just a bad roll your on , hope not but if it gets to much maybe a break would be good. I take them myself quite a few times.
As for 2dice i dont play their at the moment but its good to see them get a new game out. I think it will need a good work through though to see whats it made of.



Oh pllllleeeeaaassse! Can't we make it through at least one concern thread without this psycho babble! :mad:
 

RobWin

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Oh hell, just do like me, put your money in and cross your fingers and hope lady luck hasnt left the building:D


This is what i honestly think, if a casino, any casino, has made a great or not so great profit that day on any certain slot, they can lower or raise the RTP to make it look good for their records, the house cant win all the time, just like the player, wish i was a math geek but im not, just a someone who enjoys hitting the spin button for entertainment and looks forward to some nice playing time for my hard earned money:)..................laurie

Sure they can, how do you think the conglomerate moguls were able to build the mega resorts in Vegas? It wasn't from paying out huge wins day in and day out to the gamblers there.;)
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silcnlayc

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Standard deviation being the square root of variance, change the deviation of the RTP to a higher positive figure, you will also change the high variance to perform more in the players favor.
Rob....you are poking me in the head and making my head hurt......and with all the work Simmo! and Enzo and all the other ones have done to speak our language....you are making me nervous again....:rolleyes:
lauriejim:This is what i honestly think, if a casino, any casino, has made a great or not so great profit that day on any certain slot, they can lower or raise the RTP to make it look good for their records, the house cant win all the time, just like the player, wish i was a math geek but im not, just a someone who enjoys hitting the spin button for entertainment and looks forward to some nice playing time for my hard earned money..................laurie
Yep, this is what I do...sit and spin and have fun and hope lady luck is on myside when the big one hits...now I find the big one is really not the big one but the precursor to maybe a just so so one for the larger sum invested when I could have had a lot of little ones to go with the so so one for less of an investment..what a racket!..so sad...because they way it is put out there...the big ones is there to be had and it hasn't been done yet for the average joe...(and not ONE thought of variance running through my head while playing , I tell ya!:eek: )

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RobWin

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Rob....you are poking me in the head and making my head hurt......and with all the work Simmo! and Enzo and all the other ones have done to speak our language....you are making me nervous again....:rolleyes:

Just telling you what Enzo and the other casino owners/managers can do to make the high variance games work in your favor Silc, not that they would but it is as simple as that...:)
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