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US Regulated- GoldenNugget NJ Online...Martingale/Parlay Bets = Ban and Funds Seized

Discussion in 'America the Beautiful' started by dupeddonk, Nov 29, 2014.

    Nov 29, 2014
  1. dupeddonk

    dupeddonk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    secret agent
    Location:
    United States
    Between GN Casino, and the NJ DGE, I wonder how many employees are oblivious enough to think parlaying or martingaling your bets reduces house edge...and how many were supposed to read the T&C but just didn't.


    US Regulated- GoldenNugget NJ Online...Martingale/Parlay Bets = Ban and Funds Seized: vB4e7.jpg,Nov 29, 2014
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Nov 29, 2014
  3. Westland Bowl

    Westland Bowl Tin Foil Hat Club Member CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    not applicable
    Location:
    America
    WHAT??? Martingaling is banned at the Golden Nuggets online casino?? WTF?:what: I would be shocked if the actual Golden Nugget land casino also bans progression betting! This would be an admission that betting strategies can indeed beat the house!
     
  4. Nov 29, 2014
  5. jshort

    jshort Experienced Member MM PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Bus Driver
    Location:
    Canada
    Obviously its just another way to try and screw players out of their winnings. The price for playing online is you always need to read the T&Cs.
     
  6. Nov 29, 2014
  7. bigjohn

    bigjohn Meister Member MM PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Swimming Pool Serviceman
    Location:
    Northeast Coastal USA
    I play Golden Nugget online all the time. My question is, isn't this pretty much standard terms at all online casinos?
     
  8. Nov 29, 2014
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Could make an interesting court case.

    If someone challenged the casino in court to PROVE that their betting system did indeed change the odds of the game, the casino would struggle, and there are a few well known experts who can mathematically prove that the casino is full of s**t.

    I would have thought that there would be laws surrounding what land casinos can and cannot do when it comes to reneging on a wager, and that there would be no reason why simply offering the service online would somehow make them above the law.

    I have heard that casinos in Nevada cannot call card counters "cheats" and confiscate their money on the way out. All they can do is refuse to accept further bets from someone they believe to be counting cards.

    Perhaps they are just "trying it on", expecting most players to just accept it.

    I recall the case of a major slot machine exploit, where at first the state tried to mount a criminal prosecution, but quickly backed down when the pair involved stood up to them and mounted a defence. Even THIS isn't considered cheating on a criminal level, so I can't see card counting being classed as proper "cheating".

    They can do away with this "card counting" online in any case by having a fresh virtual shuffle at the start of every hand, which is what other online casinos do. Martingale can be defeated through setting low enough table limits that will cause the progression to fail after half a dozen steps.


    It's laughable to suggest that simply betting on certain outcomes in Roulette is "cheating" and likely to affect the house edge. If there is a box for it, it's a valid bet, and the game has been designed this way. Using past results to influence future bets only changes the house edge if the CASINO is cheating, and the wheel has a bias. This could be a tricky case for the casino to argue in court as they could inadvertently drop themselves right in it.
     
  10. Nov 29, 2014
  11. jshort

    jshort Experienced Member MM PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Bus Driver
    Location:
    Canada
    I've seen some that restrict you from drastically lowering your wagers after a big win (part of "irregular" play). I think its a stretch to say ALL online casinos have this term.

    The Martingale is tricky as far as "irregular" play goes. Not many specifically mention martingale. With that system the bet sizes changes a lot and your not just wagering small after a big win either.

    Anyways, all of this along with the Cardcounting of blackjack with constantly reshuffled decks is just another way to intentionally increase the casinos income.
     
  12. Nov 29, 2014
  13. dupeddonk

    dupeddonk Dormant account

    Occupation:
    secret agent
    Location:
    United States
    This is directly from their T&C. Nothing specific to do with bonuses.

    There is no question, the betting systems questioned have absolutely no influence on the expected value of a players bet.

    Casinos should encourage players to martingale or parlay their bets if anything, both systems just mean doubling your bet over and over until you achieve desired outcome (or go broke).

    I think these terms are just a result of many uneducated, incompetent, or just lazy employees within both the golden nugget and NJ Division of Gaming Enforcement.
     
  14. Nov 29, 2014
  15. nisosbar

    nisosbar Ueber Meister PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    Right here
    I'm skeptical, on first glance, that this term is enforceable in court, if it came to that. Doesn't make sense from the standpoint of the mathematics of a fair game, and thus, it isn't a term that addresses any kind of player fraud.

    It seems like it's more a kind of posturing.
     
  16. Nov 29, 2014
  17. Westland Bowl

    Westland Bowl Tin Foil Hat Club Member CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    not applicable
    Location:
    America
    Maybe I've been away from online casinos too long, but this is the first time I've EVER seen an online casino banning players from using progression systems by name! Yes, past T&Cs would say "can't use systems" but I've always thought and read that "systems" meant computer systems like bots and technological manipulations (how would that happen, i don't know). Since card counting is not possible with online casinos, why would an online casino care how much you are betting from one hand to the next? The player should be able to bet the way they want (outside of using bonuses) just like in a land casino.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Nov 29, 2014
  19. Googobucs

    Googobucs Meister Member

    Occupation:
    IT Manager
    Location:
    Florida, USA
    Many, many years ago when I was just a wee lad, I went to Vegas for the first time and thought I would play some Black Jack.
    The dealers were helpful at explaining how to play of course, so I asked " shouldn't I just keep upping my bet every time I lose? I can't lose every hand so eventually I will win and come out ahead right??? "

    She politely told me that I could do that if I wanted; but if I did some nice men in suits would come down and escort me off the property and I would be banned from the casino and probably every other casino.

    She explained that casino's have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
    The dealer was very nice and friendly the whole time, but I had that sudden chill down my back like I was being watched and was going to end up dead in the desert if I asked any more questions.

    Moral of the Story: The casino makes the rules and if you don't like them tuff S#*t. Go some place else.
     
  20. Nov 30, 2014
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The dealer doesn't understand maths, neither do the men in suits. This is completely the wrong system for beating Black Jack so they should have laughed (all the way to the bank).

    However, throwing you out is NOT the same as taking you out into the back and robbing you of every cent, which is effectively what the term allows for the online variant above.

    It's silly that casinos want to make themselves look bad like this, both online and land, simply because they don't understand that maths is always on their side in the long term. Perhaps it's paranoia because of the few times it has been their mistakes, not the maths, that has enabled a few punters to break the bank. They can't bring themselves to admit they make mistakes, so they focus on building a belief that the maths CAN be broken by the right system.
     
  22. Nov 30, 2014
  23. homerbert

    homerbert I-Gaming Industry Representative webby

    Occupation:
    nothing :)
    Location:
    middle of Europe!
    If i ever will have my own casino, i will make you happy guys! My rules will allow play with any kind of system you want. I will be happy :D
    Banning roulette system, omg, probably the guy who created this rule have no idea about it, and act the way like this:
    OK OK, i need rules against winners. Open google, how to win on roulette and blackjack... OH so many systems, we need to restrict em all!
     
  24. Dec 1, 2014
  25. jshort

    jshort Experienced Member MM PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Bus Driver
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm of the opinion that this particular dealer was either trying to be funny, or didn't know what she was talking about. I've never heard of anyone ever getting asked to leave for using a martingale in a land based casino.
     

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