US Players and Casinomeister

[The Dude]

Last week was a tough week. Tough but informative.

As many of you know, I was attending the European Interactive Gaming conference in Barcelona. It was the largest European gathering of casino operators and software developers yet. An excellent show which I will discus more in this week's newsletter.

One thing for sure, there is a very big problem in the US when it comes to dealing with online casinos and poker rooms. It's a mess and no one has any answers on how to deal with this. There is also a definite risk to anyone who is continuing to accept US bets. A number of casinos have decided to block players from certain jurisdictions in the States - but even this is not clear. I spoke to one individual who mentioned that there are only two states that don't have some law concerning online gaming - Montana and Wyoming I believe (not 100% sure). Nevertheless, there are risks - especially when there are so many Americans suing each other for ridiculous reasons, and Bible thumping prosecutors who will tout their misguided morals on whomever they chose.

So, a command decision was made while I was there at the conference: Casinos that accept bets from US based players will not be listed at Casinomeister.

So what does this mean for Casinomeister members who reside in the US? Not too much if you are playing at Casinos not listed here. Unfortunately, you won't have that sense of protection while playing at a "Casinomeister Accredited Casino" since there won't be any at your disposal.

You may need to venture out of your house and check out the local poker room dives in your neighborhood, or anticipate a freaky road-trip to Vegas or some nearby Indian reservation. But if you're looking to join casinos from here, sorry - I can't help you out.

Everything else is business as usual - PAB is open to anyone (except fraudsters). US players are encouraged to join the forum and contribute their experiences, observations, bitches and moans, etc. The newsletter should still be just as informative and vibrant to anyone who likes to read - the webcast is still funny ha ha. And Skill Games may be joining the landscape here as well - you may find this just as enjoyable as casino games.

Sorry that it has to be this way, but this is a command decision that had to be made. I hope you understand.

 

[Simmo!]

So the US politicians and the moralists have managed to ensure the American gambling public get less help and advice rather than more. One big step for "American Values", one giant leap for Criminals

That said I think you are right to work within the law CM. I hope people come to their senses in the future once they have their votes in the bag and common sense prevails over money.

 

[Zoozie]

Nevertheless, there are risks - especially when there are so many Americans suing each other for ridiculous reasons, and Bible thumping prosecutors who will tout their misguided morals on whomever they chose.

Very well put!

So, a command decision was made while I was there at the conference: Casinos that accept bets from US based players will not be listed at Casinomeister.

So what does this mean for Casinomeister members who reside in the US? Not too much if you are playing at Casinos not listed here.

WHAAAT?

I understand why you can not redirect US citizens to casinos, but why enforce this stupid 'US only rule' to the rest of the world?

Could you just not simply list the casinos as you always have and just write that it is illegal for US cititzens to play there? Or you could sniff the IP adress and simply not show this list to US surfers. Or one time pop-up question (then store in cookie) where surfers has to confirm they are not US citizens?

By not listing the good reliable casinos on your site, you are hurting all non-US players as well. They will end up at rogued casinos and get cheated the hell out of them.

Zoozie

 

[Simmo!]

Or you could sniff the IP adress and simply not show this list to US surfers. Or time time pop-up question (then store in cookie) where surfers has to confirm they are not US citizens?

Nice idea. I have a geo-targetting PHP script I use if that helps CM.

 

[The Dude]

...But not listing the good reliable casinos on your site, you are hurting all non-US players as well...

Actually, there is a solution to this. A number of the casino groups/casinos that were removed are putting together casino sites that will accept all non-US players, and then they will be readmitted to the section. This just won't happen overnight.

 

[Westland Bowl]

You may need to venture out of your house and check out the local poker room dives in your neighborhood, or anticipate a freaky road-trip to Vegas or some nearby Indian reservation.

Maybe I'll just MOVE out of the US instead.

 

[silcnlayc]

So, a command decision was made while I was there at the conference: Casinos that accept bets from US based players will not be listed at Casinomeister.

Knew this was coming, hence the question in another post....this is a sad day!

 

[cheekymonkey]

Would the last person to leave, please turn out the lights.

 

[The Dude]

Knew this was coming, hence the question in another post....this is a sad day!

Yes, I agree - this sucks. But it's necessary.

 

[amatrine]

Re

Won't this just encourage more casinos to no longer take US players?

**sigh**

Ama

 

[JudyMT]

I have not posted here much, but have been an avid reader of the forum for awhile and have gained alot of useful information. I just wanted to say thanks for this site and while it does suck, I do understand the stand you have to take. Hopefully, someday all this mess will be straightend out and we will (US players) once again be allowed to do with our free time what we damn well please. One good thing, on my last day of playing at Splendido, I had a nice cashout, which was a nice way to say farewell. Again, thanks Brian and everyone here.

 

[frufrugirl]

I would much rather have "CasinoMeister" around to protect as many people as possible from rouge casinos than have him be taken down because of this USA thing. Its kind of like sacrafice a few for the good of the whole. It must be done to keep this site around. It has done me so much good..I hope someday this will be over, but right now the US policy is dangerous to the sites that protect John and Joanne Doe from preditor Casinos. So, do what you gotta do Meister, Ill be here anyway!

 

[jetset]

American members at Casinomeister may not be able to connect with casinos taking the risk of accepting US bets here any longer, but don't lose sight of the other valuable facilities here, as Bryan has outlined:

Bailey goes on to assure his many American members that whilst his accredited online casino links will shrink in the short term, players will remain welcome on the site.

"Everything else is business as usual," he says, highlighting the site's popular dispute resolution facility, active forum, current industry news pages, webcast and newsletter. He also hints that Skill Games [which are unaffected by the US law] may be joining the Casinomeister landscape."

I hope that our American friends will continue to make full use of all the great benefits that this site offers, and that we will continue to enjoy their news and views.

 

[dominique]

These are tough times and decisions by everyone, casinos, webmasters and players need to be made individually and based on local and world situations. There is no cookie cutter solution, unfortunately.

The new owners of GamesandCasino decided for now to continue with an information section for US players, listing the individual casino's decisions as found.

Personally I am worried that this law will cause a surge of irreputable casinos preying on US players. I have already received spam from such places, offering the sky to get you to play there.

I am at a loss for words to express the way I feel about the situation the industry finds itself in. Please all US players, watch yourselves and don't start dealing with shady places. No one will be able to help you there.

 

[Slotster!]

Sad day CM... Thanks for the eloquent explanation and rationale behind your decision.

I hope all the lively and interesting US folks stick around, and continue to ensure this discussion forum remains far and away the best on the web.

Crazy times...

 

[Peaceful1]

Thank you for your informative response to this, Bryan. I cannot say that I blame you for this decision because of all of the vagueness and hoopla surrounding this, and you are correct about how so many people are "sue-happy".

I don't expect you to answer and/or comment on this, because I know this seems like you have been "put in the middle" when you have had to remove casinos and casino groups that were (aside from this issue) considered and found to be excellent, reputable ones with a history of awards. I suppose the ones that still accept U.S. players, even the ones that accept only certain states, have been put in the middle as well because of their vast and loyal group of U.S. players and trying to find a way for them to continue their business with them.

As far as I am concerned (and a gambler at heart), I will continue to play only at the ones that were once listed because of their reputation, and if they will still have me. Not saying that I am intentionally breaking the law, but my interpretation of it is that this Frist provision mainly outlines the billing and finance transactions involved and enforcing statutory laws that already exist, not banning online gambling altogether (at worst at least for now).

My main concern, and hopefully this will not become fact, is that groups that may have once been listed here do not take advantage of that fact and turn "shady" out of bitterness or just pure greed. I know I am taking a risk.

I hope that one day this can all turn around and this industry someday becomes a booming one, including within the U.S. Maybe it is just wishful thinking, but one never knows...

 

[Simmo!]

I hope all the lively and interesting US folks stick around, and continue to ensure this discussion forum remains far and away the best on the web.

Here here. Don't go peeps! We'd miss you Even Macguyver adds something

 

[The Dude]

One thing I need to reiterate: this does NOT affect US players in a negative way. Obviously US players are welcome to participate in the forum, and they can PAB all they want - and they'll get the same attention as everyone else. Some people are already misinterpreting what I have said (not here) as if I'm abandoning the US player. This is just total silly nonsense.

If US players haven't a clue as to which casino to play at - even though it is not listed on this site - they can apply the "Before you join a casino" and "Never ever ever" advice given here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/accredited-casinos/

Lest we forget "How to Spot a Rogue"
https://www.casinomeister.com/how-to/spot-a-rogue/

Or post their questions in the forum - or email/PM me. It's not rocket science

 

[Simmo!]

It's not rocket science

God, let's just hope they never ban Pinababy's area!

 

[Mousey]

Last week was a tough week. Tough but informative.

........

Sorry that it has to be this way, but this is a command decision that had to be made. I hope you understand.

I suppose I understand....


But why do I feel like I did when I was 5 and my parakeet died?

 

[silcnlayc]

Some people are already misinterpreting what I have said (not here) as if I'm abandoning the US player

I feel sooo ALONE!

But still luv this place....::::sadly walking off stage with head hung down, closing door::::

 

[Peaceful1]

I know I will continue to be just as avid as I was on this forum, and read on...geez..ever since I joined the forum it almost feels like a second job (a fun one!) And I would miss all the other posters too.. a group of very informative, interesting and/or fun people..lol

Especially I will continue to look out for what changes in the law. I wish I could do more (legally...lol) working so close with Congress. People always said I should have been a lawyer. I was about to do another PAB but found out my check got delivered today from City Club (whew..that was a BIG worry).

Look forward to continuing on the forum..and Bryan, I fully understand your decisions, it is the right thing to do in your capacity in not taking any chances.

 

[dominique]

Obviously US players are welcome to participate in the forum, and they can PAB all they want - and they'll get the same attention as everyone else. Some people are already misinterpreting what I have said (not here) as if I'm abandoning the US player. This is just total silly nonsense.

If US players haven't a clue as to which casino to play at - even though it is not listed on this site - they can apply the "Before you join a casino" and "Never ever ever" advice given here:
https://www.casinomeister.com/accredited-casinos/

Lest we forget "How to Spot a Rogue"
https://www.casinomeister.com/how-to/spot-a-rogue/

Or post their questions in the forum - or email/PM me. It's not rocket science

That's way cool. And people can post about slimy casinos popping up and keep the information flow going.

I am just a bit bent out of shape, not because of Bryan's decision, but because of this whole freaking mess. I sure hope everything will settle down soon and the industry will find it's way to cope with these laws in the best way possible. It seems everytime I turn around there is another piece of unsettling news.

They say change is good, so maybe even this law will eventually result in some positive changes.

 

[bb1webs]

Hi Bryan,

I haven't been around for a while as I've been as busy as anybody in the industry scampering to make heads or tails out of the current situation, but when I heard about your announcement I had to come and say that I appreciate your position and think it is a wise move to always be better safe than sorry.

I'm sorry to hear about this as (to my understanding) you don't live in the states and IMHO shouldn't be effected one way or the other by the "land of the free" especially when they try to force the country's laws on those who live outside the country.

The people in power (right now) have literally over-stepped the bounds on which the country's very basis was founded and have used means by which no founding father would have approved.

Anyway I felt compelled to stop in and show support to someone who's always been an inspiration to myself and the way I conduct my business in this industry.

:notworthy

sincerely

Steve aka bb1webs

 

[babs7262]

question

I thought it was just the listed states? Am I wrong? I live in PA and that is not on the list of illegal online gambling. With only a few listed states, why is there going to be so many changes

Maybe I am totally off base since I am brand new. Are those few listed states that are mentioned from previous bans and now ALL of the states are banned or is the list of states new and the ones not listed are allowed to gamble?

Sorry, I cant read alot at once or write alot at once. Maybe I just missed something. I just got paid from 2 casinos and I am being paid as soon as I am verified from superslots casino.

 

[SlotsWizard]

Absolutely this was a wise decision, Bryan.

Given the gray area intentionally placed in the wording of the new law about "encouraging or facilitating the placing of bets", it's highly likely that a public figure such as yourself could be subject to arrest if you came back to Vegas or somewhere - so it's very smart to eliminate anything from your web site that could possibly get you in trouble.

My decision on how to handle the situation was similar; I disabled/censored advertisements for places that accept US customers, as well as any page (such as banking information) which could be considered to "encourage, promote or facilitate blah blah...", but these items are only disabled for US residents; other countries can see everything "uncensored".

As these sites create non-US operations, I will phase out the US-friendly sites and replace them with the non-US sites. It's certainly good to hear that many of them will come up with non-US replacements, because there are still a lot of good sites that are US-friendly.

Thank you for the informative update, Bryan.

 

[Rollo]

Wizard of Odds... a true soldier

Wizard of Odds has decided to only accept one advertiser: BoDog.

Now that's a bold move. Crazy brave.

I wish him much good luck... BoDog is almost sure to be the next one to get hit.

 

[Pinababy69]

I sure wasn't happy when I read Bryan's statement this morning, my initial reaction was that it was a cop-out. I mean Christ, if CM wouldnt' stand up to this stupid law, then how could we expect anyone to? And then it hit me. Bryan is still a US citizen and the majority of his family still lives in the U.S., compelling him to return to the States many times a year. How would you like to fly to the States five or six times a year and wonder every time if this will be the one where you get picked up by the authorities? And you know they'd do it too, just to make a point. Then what about his wife and kids in Germany? And what about this site if that happened?

So, given the alternatives....Bryan, I think you've made a wise choice. And if I'm way off base on my thoughts...sorry, just thinking out loud.

 

[Pinababy69]

God, let's just hope they never ban Pinababy's area!

He he...I double dog dare anyone to try and ban me from doing anything that I want (and that includes the Government).

 

[venetian]

CM you're a hellof a guy, we luv ya and at least for most of us we appreciate your need to do what you can to protect yourself. I am just glad that we in the US can still come here and visit our 'family' and live vicariously through you to see what we are missing. And for some of us that are brave enough to party on I hope you will let us post screenshots, have an adult beverage and enjoy the forum. Cheers!

 

[Macgyver]

Here here. Don't go peeps! We'd miss you Even Macguyver adds something

At least I would if you spelled my name right!!!

I'm here to stay, my playing was already limited to 3-4 places and they've locked my accounts. I'll await the time when they realize the mistake they've made and try to woo and entice me with good bonuses.

 

[TheBloke]

Wizard of Odds has decided to only accept one advertiser: BoDog.

Now that's a bold move. Crazy brave.

I wish him much good luck... BoDog is almost sure to be the next one to get hit.

It's been that way for years, that's not a recent decision. We'll not know if he's brave or not until he updates his site (or doesn't)

 

[Rollo]

It's been that way for years

Are you sure? I don't remember that being the case... at any rate, it's still very brave to keep advertising Bodog. He's right in the middle of the US, in a state that explicity outlaws online gambling, advertising the biggest target in the industry. I think he's being pretty brave.

 

[frufrugirl]

I thought it was just the listed states? Am I wrong? I live in PA and that is not on the list of illegal online gambling. With only a few listed states, why is there going to be so many changes

Maybe I am totally off base since I am brand new. Are those few listed states that are mentioned from previous bans and now ALL of the states are banned or is the list of states new and the ones not listed are allowed to gamble?

Sorry, I cant read alot at once or write alot at once. Maybe I just missed something. I just got paid from 2 casinos and I am being paid as soon as I am verified from superslots casino.

Babs Oct 1 congress snuck in a bill hidden in the Port Protection act that basically tries to squash online gambling for all US citizens..it effects the funding of online gambling..ie..use of credit cards(banks) to fund institutions that serve Casinos..so..that is why we are all trying to figure out alternative ways to fund our casino accounts that are still open to US citizens. The law is being legally interpreted around the Casino world, with closures to US citizens as a percaution. Recently an executive was arrested when he landed in the USA because his company is open to bets from Louisiana residents.Its illegal there and Louisiana had a warrent out for his arrest! It is also a no no to refer our citizens to online gambling sites..hence..CasinoMeisters changes.This kind of set things in motion for closures and then the Oct 1 bill came around..POW!!! Down we go. Hope this makes sense and it didnt tangle it all up!

 

[justred]

Wizard of Odds has decided to only accept one advertiser: BoDog.

Now that's a bold move. Crazy brave.

I wish him much good luck... BoDog is almost sure to be the next one to get hit.

That's old news and has nothing to do with recent events...

 

[Rollo]

When did that happen? It sure hasn't been years.

Ok, let me rephrase:

The Wizard of Odds' decision to stick with this one high-risk organization in a state that explicitly outlaws online gambling, thereby subjecting himself to possible legal action in this very unfrieldy climate, is very brave.

The point is the the Wizard not only has not bailed, but he is promoting the organiation that is likely at the highest risk to be the next one prosecuted.

Better?

 

[The Dude]

When did that happen? It sure hasn't been years.

I think it's been about a year. He auctioned off his banner space to the highest bidder, and Bodog was it.

 

[Addisyn]

Here this is what the online casinos are using...

Isn't it sad when you have to see this. Expired Image I figured the facists who have stolen our country would eventually start raiding our homes. Guess I didn't see this coming. Raiding our fun!

When I saw this little image for the frst time it really hit home. This country is going down the toliet! Please vote and put some checks and balances back in the landscape of American politics. If the E-voting machines don't eat your votes or change them to steal yet another election maybe we won't have to see Expired Image again.

 

[footdr]

THIS WILL DO U.S. PLAYERS MORE HARM THAN GOOD

I believe you are adressing this in a manner which, due to your influence in the online gaming business, will push the few remaining reputable companies to ban u.s. players.

I would like to suggest that the Act appears to ban ALL Casino/Poker advertisements so you would probably still not be in total compliance.

Perhaps the best approach for ALL of us would be to ban U.S. players from access to the website.

In this manner you will not force business to ban us if they need the exposure you provide them.

YOU THEN COULD ESTABLISH A U.S. FORUM. WHEN U.S. PLAYERS ENTER THE WEBSITE IN THEIR BROWSER THEY WOULD BE REDIRECTED AND SIGN IN ONLY TO THAT FORUM


I believe the approach you have planned to take is doing nothing but assisting the U.S. government in banning freedom of speech. U.S. supreme court has held that books can not be banned. Constitutionally we have a right to information.

Also, I believe the issue that should be addressed in court by the internet organizations is that if casinos are complying with the law, advertising on your site is meaningless for U.s. players anyway.

Please ban us not the casinos . your decision to ban them is doing both us and the casinos a disservice.

 

[-z-]

Whoops

From
-Casino Industry Discussion
-New Legislation Regulating US Players New Legislation Regulating US Players

I wrote:

Technology legislation always makes big headlines but when put to the test, the US congress couldn't pass gas let alone an effective law. Congress is only interested in jumping on the bandwagon of the day for votes and getting their hands o(n) more money to waste.

Whew.. I guess I would be hard pressed to have been more wrong. Guess they can pass a bill - right under their own noses.

FWIW: As I read it, it is not illegal to play the games, just the electronic transactions. If this is true, it's a shame the casinos are "folding before the flop" instead of working the loopholes like sending checks in the mail or something else.

I'll be back after the revolution. Til then, 2x thanks for the awesome site CM, I'm certain you saved me from the rogues a couple times at least; and thanks for all the great reading from everyone who chose to write rather than just read.

-z-

 

[babs7262]

credit card

When playing the other day at a casino (i wont say the name incase), they had a line when I pressed credit card that said "you may be declined because you are in the US" I did it anyway and got approved

Like I said before, Instadebit always works for me too. Some sites wont take my visa debit and some still will, even as late as last night

 

[Darem1]

Thanks for not banning us from the site

Thanks for not banning the USA players from this website.

 

[kengam]

thanks for showing backbone Bryan

 

[spearmaster]

thanks for showing backbone Bryan

You are an ingrate. And talking about backbone, who was it that could not prove his claims because he had too much to lose?

 

[kengam]

my post was not directed at you Spearmaster. Please don't make me bring up the English Harbour affair again. You looked silly defending them then and you will look even sillier defending them now. I guess they decided to scrap that double up game huh? Good think we found the bugs early on in that.

You lost the respect of many during that fiasco so you should probably just let it go.

 

[venetian]

kengam I don't know you but you sound like a bitter angry man. If you don't like CM or the main posters here why do you hang around?

 

[just play]

I believe you are adressing this in a manner which, due to your influence in the online gaming business, will push the few remaining reputable companies to ban u.s. players.

I would like to suggest that the Act appears to ban ALL Casino/Poker advertisements so you would probably still not be in total compliance.

Perhaps the best approach for ALL of us would be to ban U.S. players from access to the website.

In this manner you will not force business to ban us if they need the exposure you provide them.

YOU THEN COULD ESTABLISH A U.S. FORUM. WHEN U.S. PLAYERS ENTER THE WEBSITE IN THEIR BROWSER THEY WOULD BE REDIRECTED AND SIGN IN ONLY TO THAT FORUM


I believe the approach you have planned to take is doing nothing but assisting the U.S. government in banning freedom of speech. U.S. supreme court has held that books can not be banned. Constitutionally we have a right to information.

Also, I believe the issue that should be addressed in court by the internet organizations is that if casinos are complying with the law, advertising on your site is meaningless for U.s. players anyway.

Please ban us not the casinos . your decision to ban them is doing both us and the casinos a disservice.

:notworthy

 

[kengam]

Venetian, you should have stopped with you don't know me. Most others here do. I am not a bad guy. I just don't like corruption and cover ups. That issue is kept neatly tucked away in a locked thread. It is still very fresh in many peoples' minds though

 

[spearmaster]

Venetian, you should have stopped with you don't know me. Most others here do. I am not a bad guy. I just don't like corruption and cover ups. That issue is kept neatly tucked away in a locked thread. It is still very fresh in many peoples' minds though

The thread was locked because there was no useful discussion going on there - it was just a bitter slanging match between you guys and the casinos - you produced no proof to back your claims and unfortunately got a few other posters to buy into your baseless accusations.

I already addressed the issue I was looking into, which is that, after examining the code, it was my opinion that there was no ill-intent but instead a stupid bug. I never did finish my report, true - but it was clear that you were not interested in it so I dropped it, simple as that.

Now no more off-topic in this thread. You should not be talking to Bryan about backbone - he has way more than you do.

 

[The Dude]

thanks for showing backbone Bryan

Kengam - you are a twit. You don't have a clue to what I face on a daily basis. And believe me - I have way more backbone than you'll ever have. A Bronze Star and US Army Master Parachutist wings can give credence to that. You don't have any idea what I've dealt with and what I deal with now.

...I just don't like corruption and cover ups. That issue is kept neatly tucked away in a locked thread. It is still very fresh in many peoples' minds though...

Kengam - you are an idiot. I locked that thread because there was nothing new being said - and I told you, and anyone else interested, that you could start a new thread no problem. It was an administrative decision to lock it in order to keep the forum organized. If I was to refer someone to that thread - sixty pages of content with a bunch of moronic bumpings don't cut it.

You've become to frigging annoying, Kengam. Bye.