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Update on CMA investigation into bonusing ts and cs

Discussion in 'Casino Industry Discussion' started by slotbuzz, Nov 22, 2017.

    Nov 22, 2017
  1. slotbuzz

    slotbuzz Newbie member

    The competitions and markets authority are currently investigating bouncing ts and cs and saying operators will need to extensively review and update their offers.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Sounds like a very necessary move to me. Feels like wholesale changes are needed and it would almost be better with no bounsing - they are all rigged against the player anyway - withdrawal restrictions, WRs etc. And why would they be any other way - casinos are trying to make money, not give it away..

    Strikes me it would be better and more honest without them.
  2. Nov 22, 2017
  3. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Self- Employeed
    A must do IMO.

    However I would not used 'rigged' when describing bonuses.

    Sure many are EV- and player unfriendly BUT they are there for a reason, many reasons in fact.

    I'd err that long term they benefit the casino, The main idea that players bust out before clearing wagering requirements.

    However over the years, some casinos have exploited bonuses and "used" then against players, to void winnings, make it impossible (or nigh on) etc etc.

    What is needed is player friendly terms or basically terms which are written which can be understood and where players don't need a degree to decipher them.

    Players such as myself (low roller, small budget) often rely on bonuses, In my case, extended play time more than anything else.

    This is a difficult one as

    i) casinos need incentive to make us choose their product over and above others.

    ii) A LOT of casinos will not want simple to understand and reduced terms

    bit of a catch 22

    We'll wait and see eh?
  4. Nov 22, 2017
  5. slotbuzz

    slotbuzz Newbie member


    Fair point. I guess it comes down to bonuses being there as you say to extend play time, rather than give you a free chance to win. Because WRs and withdrawal restrictions basically mitigate any risk the casino has from giving the bonus out. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Some of the worst part of bouncing are definitely hard to interpret ts and cs, but also where deposited funds become locked because I've been given a bonus (by default!). And there is no way out until i've either met WR or contact CS to ask for withdrawal.
  6. Nov 23, 2017
  7. adamtheaddict

    adamtheaddict Meister Member

    i was offered 2 reloads in the past few days from an accredited casino which i have not long recently joined.
    I like the casino, and ive taken a fair few of the "deposit £10 for 20 extra spins at £0.20" with a WR of 40x winnings, that they have offered almost daily for the past month.
    but damn, being a low roller who deposits 10-25 per session, why would i instead want to take a 50% reload with a wr of 40x deposit and bonus, or the 30% reload that also comes with a staggering 40x d+b.
    At least send it it friday or saturday where i might be drunk enough to assume it said 40x b like it does for the free spins.... :eek2:
  8. Dec 8, 2017
  9. quber

    quber Senior Member

    just adding the full speech given by the CMA

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  10. Dec 8, 2017
  11. mcgameboy

    mcgameboy Screenieholic & Essayist CAG mm2

    Casual Stocktaker (Inventory Counter)
    If that was really the case, then why....

    ....do we sometimes see posts from a CM member complaining that he/she has been bonus banned by a certain casino because they won too much/too often from bonuses?

    ....do some very experienced slot players actually take bonuses, including those that are a higher level of -EV?

    ....are there some bonuses that are actually +EV?

    I won't dispute the fact that SOME bonuses are used as a weapon/tool by casinos who will all too willingly resort to dirty tricks,
    but to say that all bonuses are rigged against the player is completely false.
  12. Dec 9, 2017
  13. gilliebean

    gilliebean Experienced Member

    Southampton, UK
    I'd hazard a guess that a lot of the bonus bans that members complain about come after multiple or large withdrawals from non-deposit / free spin bonuses; I've only ever really accepted welcome offers where WR's are seem manageable or non deposit bonuses and FS's. I only take up subsequent bonuses if they're WR's are xB only (purely for extra playtime) or the second chance type ones...

    With regards to experienced slot players are you talking streamers? It's just personally I never really see high rollers taking bonuses with any silly WR's - although how would you know unless you asked? - but I imagine they'd shop around their VIP reps for the best rewards available in the first instance and low wager bonuses next!?

    I tend to agree that the majority of bonus t's and c's take the piss though, we want to relax (until we clench our bum cheeks anyway :laugh ) not read Japanese for a bloody hour - although I will if necessary. I won't be burnt twice :thumbsup:

    I asked if you meant streamers as they would, I imagine, receive many more no wager bonuses, or at least much more attractive wagering reqs/t's and c's attached than your average Joe Bloggs does - maybe I'm wrong'. But, Hell I'm tempted to take it up myself to find out... :laugh:

    Ps - where do I find these +EV bonuses...!? Genuinely.... :D:confused:
  14. Dec 9, 2017
  15. gilliebean

    gilliebean Experienced Member

    Southampton, UK
    That made me chuckle. I actually talk to my phone / laptop when I receive those.

    I'm like - ooooh a free fiver on my tenner deposit and I get to wager £600 before I can withdraw anything too!? Ooooh, where do I opt in!?!? :p
  16. Dec 9, 2017
  17. mcgameboy

    mcgameboy Screenieholic & Essayist CAG mm2

    Casual Stocktaker (Inventory Counter)
    That's not entirely the case. There's been quite a few here who have bonus banned for merely doing well on only the welcome bonuses.
    I myself have even got bonus banned by a casino despite NOT being in profit at that casino. Sometimes you can be bonus banned simply for taking bonuses "too often", even if you are not winning from them. There's definitely a certain level of hypocrisy on the part of some casinos - they are happy to let you take the bonuses, but they aren't so happy to see you beating them. And then they unleash the ban hammer on you as some form of spiteful punishment for daring to win. :mad:

    Not at all. Streaming is still a relatively new thing and I know very little about it, especially stuff like what bonuses the steamers get. If it wasn't for the various streaming-related threads, I'd know diddly squat about it. From what little I do know, it would seem that the streamers seem to be able to get a good deal from the casinos they promote. The kind of deal that us "ordinary folk" would never see.

    What I was talking about was players like myself (6 years and counting) and Jono (at least 13 years(?) and counting), people who have been slotting long before streaming was even an idea in someone's head. Jono (and I don't think he would object to me saying this) takes bonuses almost all the time and he has never made any secret of it and the reasons why he does so....he has a budget, he has to stick to it and therefore he has to shop around for the best deal. I can fully respect that, because I was just the same when I started out. But now that I have a bigger budget to play with, I can afford to be a lot less fussy than I used to be.

    Yeah they can be a bit of a piss take. I know myself I have seen some bonuses which look good on the surface. Then you read the t's and c's and if it's not a max cashout rule, then it's ambiguous language. Next thing I know, that bonus just became less attractive than the sight of an elephant taking a massive dump. There are times when I see a bonus that looks good and I don't take it up, simply because I know it is going to involve spending an hour reading a load of gobbledygook. But if I want to take a bonus badly enough, I will always do my due diligence, no matter how much a PITA it is. I can't think of anything worse than winning big, only to find it's all for nothing, because you couldn't be arsed reading a few t's and c's for 5 minutes. That would be a seriously bitter pill to swallow.

    They more than likely do. Although there may well be some which are tied into depositing levels, amounts wagered in a set period, being at a certain level, tier or status etc.

    If only I knew lol. But just for one example, having watched dunover's vids over the years, he has mentioned at the start of some of his videos getting some loyalty bonuses that were +EV and explaining why they were +EV. I'm assuming that Sky Vegas was among the places where he has had some of those +EV bonuses. Again though, I think the vast majority of them were loyalty-based. So I know they exist. I just haven't been the one getting them lol.
  18. Dec 9, 2017
  19. jodib71

    jodib71 Newbie member PABnoaccred

    No Idea
    You Won! That's Bonus Abuse

    This happened to me this week. Ive been a VIP Player at iNetBet Casino for years. A few months ago I received a warning that I was winning too much off bonuses. I was not very politely warned that if I didn't start to make more cash only deposits they would slap me with a bonus ban. Apparently I was guilty of BONUS ABUSE !! I had never heard that terminology before, it felt a bit like extortion to me.

    Against my better judgment I continued to play here because there are some games that I do have a good run on. I made a point of making non-bonus deposits as well as claiming some bonuses. It was about 50/50. All went well for a while but it was slightly frustrating, my money didn't last too long. Come the end of November and I had made a loss for the month so Casino Management were happy and even sent me a $70 Managers Bonus for my losses.

    After playing out my Managers Bonus I took a bonus and deposited. I made playthrough and withdrew $900. Upon receiving my $900 I made a deposit with no bonus. Still on a lucky run I made another withdrawal for $200. Upon receipt of my $200 I made a few more cash deposits but they got chewed pretty fast. I decided to take a bonus with my next deposit in the hope I could get a decent amount of play time. This is when I realized I had been blocked for supposed Bonus Abuse.

    After being a regular VIP Player @ iNetBet for years they blocked me from receiving bonuses, free chips that other VIPs have access to as well as all their Tournaments, both paid and freerolls. To make it even more of an insult they didn't even have the decency to inform me of their decision. I only became aware when I tried to redeem a bonus. Once again I felt the wrath of iNetBet Management for having the gaul to win on their slots. Im not at all surprised though because they also banned me from receiving any bonuses from Kudos Casino several months ago when on a winning streak.

    The day I got banned from offers all other players receive at Kudos Casino was the last day I made a deposit there. Same goes for iNetBet Casino. They will not see another $1 of mine .... Sore Loosers!!
  20. Jan 11, 2018
  21. slotter999

    slotter999 Senior Member

    A very interesting read and I interpret much of that as being very much on the side of the player. I wonder what the retrospective position on this will be once they reach their conclusions.

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