[Unsubstantiated] GoWild are spammers?

[mr_lee]

It's enough, since I have received today the 8th spam from GoWild casino's (www.gowildcasino.com) so called "affiliates", on the email I was using when still playing at 888. I have spoke with few of my friends who also played there and three of them created email address just for 888 - funny(?) thing, also they received the "invitation" to GoWild Casino?!? Ok, smells like stolen DB? So I dig a little and from what I have heard from a friend (I have my sources on a lot of places) is that the GoWild started doing business after the 888 database was stolen some years ago - apparently by some Israeli criminal group. (888 did not go public, since the casino was being sold at that time).

So I dig a little more, and Google was my friend. I found out this interesting article (translated with the help of Google)

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where it's a bunch of news collected, regarding how GoWild was doing illegal operations and laundering money for further criminal activities. I saw they also managed to change the domain name on those articles, so Google wont punish them but still, images stays, and descriptions also. Article here

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shows also their connection with Casino Titan (where we all were wondering why some of us received the email with sender @casinotitan.com, signed by GoWild Casino. This explains it than, both are theirs - or at least they were.

Honestly, i think we should stick this somewhere where current players can see, all they are doing is supporting the criminal group, who started with stolen DB and is using players $ to invest into more criminal activities. Pathetic yes, and very bad karma for whoever is playing at their casino.

Meister, its up to you to protect or expose the bad guys. I believe there are many more respected casinos who are suffering on the account of those group(s). I myself, don't even go and open accounts on casinos where "so called affiliates" invite me over night. But still, taking people $ to support illegal operations.. c'mon they should all GET A JOB.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It's enough, since I have received today the 8th spam from GoWild casino's (www.gowildcasino.com) so called "affiliates", on the email I was using when still playing at 888. I have spoke with few of my friends who also played there and three of them created email address just for 888 - funny(?) thing, also they received the "invitation" to GoWild Casino?!? Ok, smells like stolen DB? So I dig a little and from what I have heard from a friend (I have my sources on a lot of places) is that the GoWild started doing business after the 888 database was stolen some years ago - apparently by some Israeli criminal group. (888 did not go public, since the casino was being sold at that time).

So I dig a little more, and Google was my friend. I found out this interesting article (translated with the help of Google)

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

where it's a bunch of news collected, regarding how GoWild was doing illegal operations and laundering money for further criminal activities. I saw they also managed to change the domain name on those articles, so Google wont punish them but still, images stays, and descriptions also. Article here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

shows also their connection with Casino Titan (where we all were wondering why some of us received the email with sender @casinotitan.com, signed by GoWild Casino. This explains it than, both are theirs - or at least they were.

Honestly, i think we should stick this somewhere where current players can see, all they are doing is supporting the criminal group, who started with stolen DB and is using players $ to invest into more criminal activities. Pathetic yes, and very bad karma for whoever is playing at their casino.

Meister, its up to you to protect or expose the bad guys. I believe there are many more respected casinos who are suffering on the account of those group(s). I myself, don't even go and open accounts on casinos where "so called affiliates" invite me over night. But still, taking people $ to support illegal operations.. c'mon they should all GET A JOB.

or a bunch of bullshit.

All I can get is "404 page not found", hardly the required standard of support for your argument that GoWild are an organised crime outfit.

GoWild did have their offices raided a while back after malicious actions from a disgruntled ex employee got them suspected of criminal activities.

It would appear that they have done something to SERIOUSLY piss you off given that you have just joined and made this your opening post.

Such claims need supporting evidence, else it will be seen as an attempt at libel.

To the GoWild rep - have you recently stood up to a blackmail threat by any chance, rather than caving in and making a deal?

 

[Simmo!]

Those links you post do a 404, as VWM states above.

Please can you PM the correct URLs to the moderators: maxd, me and/or Casinomeister.

As you are also Israeli-based, can you also state that you have had no prior involvement with or connection to GoWild. Just want to rule out the vendetta situation we see a fair bit here, I'm sure you'll understand

As it stands, this is an unsubstantiated accusation and the thread title has been changed accordingly.

Cheers,

Simmo!

 

[skiny]

It really tends to put people off when you walk into a saloon with both guns blazing over your head. Better to quietly sit down and order a drink first.

As for GoWild being a criminal organization, I really doubt it. I used to play there. The only reason I quit was because I never won anything. But I can't win at any MGS casino so that's not really GoWild's fault.

Getting spammed by casinos isn't anything new either. I get a dozen emails a day from casinos, half of which I've never even played at. Every time a new casino pops up I get offers to join those too. It's the risk you take when you go around the internet typing your email address into any box that asks for it. If I could start over I'd make a new email address for every casino I joined. skinygowild@... skiny32red@. At least then you'd know who was passing your email addresses around.

Besides, when a casino says they'll never give out your personal information does that even include your email address? Is an email address considered personal information? Mine's probably in a hundred databases by now. It doesn't really seem all that personal anymore. It's like having your phone number listed in the phone book with my name right beside it. Pretty much anyone can open the book and call it. It's not exactly privileged information. I guess it depends exactly how much other information is in that database. I have no idea what else is in there. Maybe that explains all the penis enlargement ads I keep getting.

 

[mr_lee]

-- I don't know for you, but the friends I mention have a specific "ways" of knowing if someone sold/stole their data. They create a special email address just for the casino they play at. for example, if they decide to play at Red32, they create their email something like i.play.at.32Red@gmail.com ... and they never, ever, enter this email than into any other "form" online, since they use it strictly to operate with that casino and to check if they are selling the DB. if than they see the spam from GoWild casino or any other casino or casinos affiliates in inbox/spam of i.play.at.32Red@gmail.com, than it's 1+1, right? who can than "open that book", as u keep saying? and yes email address, or let's say any information I/you fill out when entering a casino, is a private information, not to mention its damn personal (credit cards numbers, personal address?!,..). Casinos should - and they mostly do - keep that information private/safe. Unless someone hack them or they sold the data to 3rd (or sister) party.

I have posted the URL's and the copy/paste of statement of the Serbian government prosecutor on PM as requested, feel free to share them if you want.


ps.: the "...saloon with both guns blazing over your head" story,… really? - the word is the better weapon than any bullet, so sitting quiet finishing drink will get you nowhere.

 

[Nifty29]

Methinks the OP has a personal axe to grind.

 

[Jasminebed]

I get quite a bit of "spam". I am a GoWild customer, I get a lot of new player offers that don't apply to me.

Ditto for Casino Rewards. But I know i joined sites that I gave permission to share my email with interested parties.

They are not the only ones, but from places I have accounts, with new player offers, frequent.

I have email accounts that have never been associated with online gambling that get spam, but in all fairness, not GoWild or Casino Rewards. And my ISP filters nothing, those kids don't want me to buy Viagara, it might take away from my gambling budget.

I can't tell spam from legimate mass markerting anymore.

Don't click unsubscribe links, just tells them they found a live address. Delete and block future emails.

 

[jetset]

Here's the October 2010 article from Casinomeister News, which says nothing about organised crime or 888 and relates to Operation Atlantis, a raid for unlicensed operations by the Serbian cops in which some 35 staff members were temporarily held but released following interaction with legal representatives engaged by the company concerned.

The company's statement explains that the raid was the result of a pissed off former employee of the service firm tipping off the local constabulary.

Unfortunately no further news emerged on this case, and Go Wild did not follow up with an explanation of what transpired or whether they had pulled out of Serbia as a consequence. Perhaps the Go Wild rep can update us?

Either way, it does not appear to have been criminal activity of the gravity that the OP implies here.

I agree with other members - this sounds more like a vicious attempt to get some payback by using old media reports.

If the OP has these highly informed sources he claims he has, perhaps he would like to expand a little more on his very serious allegations?


From Casinomeister News October 2010

Gowild Casino Offices Raided in Serbia

Yesterday's news that the Serbian police had conducted a raid on allegedly illegal online gambling activities operated by Go Wild Casino and Casino Litan has been followed by a statement from the company explaining that the premises concerned was a call centre.

The company statement explained:

"First of all we would like to apologize for the inconveniences caused to any of our clients or affiliates, and inform clearly that all withdrawals, deposits and game-play remains flawless and will not be affected at any time. All affiliates tracking data will be restored for our partners and our affiliate program services will be back online shortly.

".....Customer Care and Support Services are managed by a specialized company, who works very closely with our casino management in an endeavor for excellence. Unfortunately, one of their vengeful ex-employees that was recently dismissed (due to poor performance) decided to try to harm and damage the company by using false accusations to law enforcement.

"At the moment they are resolving this matter with their team of lawyers and we hope that very soon they will start providing the best services possible as they have done up to this point."

 

[mr_lee]

As i have mentioned, the specific URL's have been send to Simm PM. Regarding "From Casinomeister News October 2010".. Now it's April 2012, and I know a few Serbians who work in government there, who confirmed me that 5 people of the GoWild group, are still in Belgrade (Central Serbia) since the process is still going on. They dont let them go home. Mentioned was also that they discovered, whole finance department, fraud department and the design department were also there in the same offices. So much about "external company doing support" over there. They are accused of running whole operation in the illegal country. Does this sounds like a "fault attempt of false claim by an ex worker"?. Not for anyone who things with clear head and not for sure for Serbian government. Beside - if the GoWild have some unfinished business with some of their ex representatives this is totally their problem and have nothing to do with their spamming or DB buying/stealing, which was the primary reason of my post - i proved they send the email to people who never before entered it into any other online form, but as players of 888. Also, I very much doubt one ex worked can cause them such a mess that they were raided by police force, locked in prison, their servers taken away (with all data of players,finances,affiliates...) I dont know how you see it, but what media representative puts out into the public (with a help of forums, news articles,...money(!) is usually what the players/public would like to read, which is a common practice of every business owner. I can try to get some more prove from Serbian government or to help get the all 55 people working there to register at CasinoMeister and tell them their own story. But I doubt that would convince you guys any more than the truth which you obviously are not ready to accept.

 

[vinylweatherman]

As i have mentioned, the specific URL's have been send to Simm PM. Regarding "From Casinomeister News October 2010".. Now it's April 2012, and I know a few Serbians who work in government there, who confirmed me that 5 people of the GoWild group, are still in Belgrade (Central Serbia) since the process is still going on. They dont let them go home. Mentioned was also that they discovered, whole finance department, fraud department and the design department were also there in the same offices. So much about "external company doing support" over there. They are accused of running whole operation in the illegal country. Does this sounds like a "fault attempt of false claim by an ex worker"?. Not for anyone who things with clear head and not for sure for Serbian government. Beside - if the GoWild have some unfinished business with some of their ex representatives this is totally their problem and have nothing to do with their spamming or DB buying/stealing, which was the primary reason of my post - i proved they send the email to people who never before entered it into any other online form, but as players of 888. Also, I very much doubt one ex worked can cause them such a mess that they were raided by police force, locked in prison, their servers taken away (with all data of players,finances,affiliates...) I dont know how you see it, but what media representative puts out into the public (with a help of forums, news articles,...money(!) is usually what the players/public would like to read, which is a common practice of every business owner. I can try to get some more prove from Serbian government or to help get the all 55 people working there to register at CasinoMeister and tell them their own story. But I doubt that would convince you guys any more than the truth which you obviously are not ready to accept.

The ONLY supporting evidence so far has been "404 page not found", so even a few of the 55 telling their own story would be better than that.

Unless the gaming servers themselves were found in the Serbian offices, there is no real case for an illegal activity.

Online gambling is illegal in Israel too, yet quite a few Israeli companies operate online casinos from head offices in Israel, but they have the gaming servers themselves in a properly licensed jurisdiction, and do not offer services to Israeli players.

Based on your argument, Jackpot Factory should have been raided and shut down long ago by the Israeli police.

Perhaps YOU are that "disgruntled ex employee" that kicked off the whole mess back in 2010.

 

[jetset]

The ONLY supporting evidence so far has been "404 page not found", so even a few of the 55 telling their own story would be better than that.

Unless the gaming servers themselves were found in the Serbian offices, there is no real case for an illegal activity.

Online gambling is illegal in Israel too, yet quite a few Israeli companies operate online casinos fro head offices in Israel, but they have the gaming servers themselves in a properly licensed jurisdiction, and do not offer services to Israeli players.

Based on your argument, Jackpot Factory should have been raided and shut down long ago by the Israeli police.

Perhaps YOU are that "disgruntled ex employee" that kicked off the whole mess back in 2010.

Well said I would also like to read what Go Wild has to say about this.

 

[sattty]

wish the OP would put a sentance in here or there

 

[Silencio]

-- I don't know for you, but the friends I mention have a specific "ways" of knowing if someone sold/stole their data. They create a special email address just for the casino they play at. for example, if they decide to play at Red32, they create their email something like i.play.at.32Red@gmail.com ... and they never, ever, enter this email than into any other "form" online, since they use it strictly to operate with that casino and to check if they are selling the DB. if than they see the spam from GoWild casino or any other casino or casinos affiliates in inbox/spam of i.play.at.32Red@gmail.com, than it's 1+1, right? who can than "open that book", as u keep saying? and yes email address, or let's say any information I/you fill out when entering a casino, is a private information, not to mention its damn personal (credit cards numbers, personal address?!,..). Casinos should - and they mostly do - keep that information private/safe. Unless someone hack them or they sold the data to 3rd (or sister) party.

I have posted the URL's and the copy/paste of statement of the Serbian government prosecutor on PM as requested, feel free to share them if you want.


ps.: the "...saloon with both guns blazing over your head" story,… really? - the word is the better weapon than any bullet, so sitting quiet finishing drink will get you nowhere.

"Unless someone hacks them".. I think that's the problem usually. Lousy security.. (4th time or so, that I've said this, but..) Hell, even Sony got hacked. I think too many old people are head of security.. (ugh, sorry old people who feel offended )
Having said that, I don't like GoWild, I don't trust them.. but as most people have already said, your first post being what it is, it's even harder to take your words for granted. Interesting read though

 

[mr_lee]

wish the OP would put a sentance in here or there

I have send Simmo PM with working URL's.. here they are, either use google translator for "basic" translation, or ask some of Yugoslavian friends to translate it for you.

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The paragraph talking about their investing of money into more illegal activities, is mentioned in almost all articles. It is from a statement of government prosecutor.

"Oni su omogućili većem broju lica iz država na teritoriji Evrope i Amerike da se kockaju i polažu svoje uloge putem elektronskih transfera prema of-šor destinacijama, da bi potom novac podizali i prenosili u Srbiju radi daljeg ulaganja u nelegalan posao", navodi se u saopštenju."

google can translate you this into:

"They have enabled a number of persons from countries on the territory of Europe and America to gamble and take their role through electronic transfers to offshore destinations, only to money raised and transferred to Serbia for further investment in the illegal business," says the statement."



I personally really dont care where you guys spend your money, but from all what i have read I can assure you it's a very bad karma on GoWild Casino so good luck with playing there. If friends from Serbia will give me the contact of ex workers there, I will be happy to invite them to CM.

 

[vinylweatherman]

All those links are different versions of the same original story. In essence, GoWild had their "back office" activities in Serbia, but their gaming servers in a jurisdiction that allowed them to operate them under a license. This is trying to extend Serbian law outside of Serbian national boundaries, and why the initial case fizzled out. All that was found were foreign nationals operating a call centre and back office for Go Wild on Serbian soil. The charges relate to offering games of chance without a Serbian license. This, however, would not be applicable as the gaming itself took place elsewhere, not in Serbia.

Unless it is an offence to run a call centre in Serbia for a business that operates elsewhere under another jurisdiction's laws, no crime has been committed, and hence the charge of using profits made from players at Go Wild for the finance of a continuation of a criminal activity also fails.

The story was that the raid happened because the authorities were lead to believe that the gambling itself took place there, but only "back office" activities were found to have taken place.

There is no NEW information in those stories linked to, and if there WAS evidence of crime, surely by now there would have been some charges, if not court cases booked. The impression is that the case is "on hold" unless new evidence comes to light that there WAS actual gaming activity taking place.

At worst, the offices kept records of the transactions, and maybe in the case of US players had a hand in creating schemes to circumvent UIGEA until MGS ordered all it's licensees to close out all US players.

If Go Wild didn't accept players from Serbia itself, I can't see how they would have needed a Serbian license for only having their offices there.

One theory from all of this is that you are an ex employee, and are aggrieved over some slight, perhaps the origin of the information that lead to the raid, or an employee who felt that Go Wild didn't properly handle the resulting pull out from Serbia after the raid, which would have put many of these employees out of a job (and money) overnight.

What is needed is evidence that running the back office services they did WAS a crime under Serbian law. Even then, it would be a local matter, and such activities would not be a crime in many other countries.

Quite a few casinos have UK offices, but this is NOT illegal because the gambling itself takes place on the servers, not in the UK offices. It is up to the country hosting the servers to decide whether the activity is legal or not. As far as the UK is concerned, it would only interfere where UK players were gambling at an operator with UK based offices and support activities, and even this won't be an issue until the new regime comes into force that requires any operator to have a secondary UK license to cover UK based players in addition to it's primary gambling license.

 

[mr_lee]

All those links are different versions of the same original story. In essence, GoWild had their "back office" activities in Serbia, but their gaming servers in a jurisdiction that allowed them to operate them under a license. This is trying to extend Serbian law outside of Serbian national boundaries, and why the initial case fizzled out. All that was found were foreign nationals operating a call centre and back office for Go Wild on Serbian soil. The charges relate to offering games of chance without a Serbian license. This, however, would not be applicable as the gaming itself took place elsewhere, not in Serbia.

Unless it is an offence to run a call centre in Serbia for a business that operates elsewhere under another jurisdiction's laws, no crime has been committed, and hence the charge of using profits made from players at Go Wild for the finance of a continuation of a criminal activity also fails.

The story was that the raid happened because the authorities were lead to believe that the gambling itself took place there, but only "back office" activities were found to have taken place.

There is no NEW information in those stories linked to, and if there WAS evidence of crime, surely by now there would have been some charges, if not court cases booked. The impression is that the case is "on hold" unless new evidence comes to light that there WAS actual gaming activity taking place.

At worst, the offices kept records of the transactions, and maybe in the case of US players had a hand in creating schemes to circumvent UIGEA until MGS ordered all it's licensees to close out all US players.

If Go Wild didn't accept players from Serbia itself, I can't see how they would have needed a Serbian license for only having their offices there.

One theory from all of this is that you are an ex employee, and are aggrieved over some slight, perhaps the origin of the information that lead to the raid, or an employee who felt that Go Wild didn't properly handle the resulting pull out from Serbia after the raid, which would have put many of these employees out of a job (and money) overnight.

What is needed is evidence that running the back office services they did WAS a crime under Serbian law. Even then, it would be a local matter, and such activities would not be a crime in many other countries.

Quite a few casinos have UK offices, but this is NOT illegal because the gambling itself takes place on the servers, not in the UK offices. It is up to the country hosting the servers to decide whether the activity is legal or not. As far as the UK is concerned, it would only interfere where UK players were gambling at an operator with UK based offices and support activities, and even this won't be an issue until the new regime comes into force that requires any operator to have a secondary UK license to cover UK based players in addition to it's primary gambling license.

you forgot somehow why the post was created in first place - since it was proved that the GoWild casino somehow(?) got the emails of me and few of my friends which we used for ONLY playing at 888 casino and have never(!!) use it or entered it in any other online form on web - meaning they either bought the DB or stole it, plain simple. all the other is just what google can found about them. primary reason still was and will stay (at least for me), if someone got my email from being stolen or bought, is ILLEGAL.. not to mention spamming.

 

[dionysus]

well, if they 'bought' it from 888, why isnt the rant about 888 for selling it?

 

[Seventh777]

well, if they 'bought' it from 888, why isnt the rant about 888 for selling it?

Because that would not fit into his obvious agenda of the character assassination of GoWild, their offices were raided in Serbia for a possible breach of Serbian gambling laws, no one was charged, and GoWild are still operating. So, unless the Serbian justice system is run by people that failed the Neteller customer support job application interview, here we have a case of a somewhat disgruntled poster whom appears to know, what a thorough criminal investigation failed to uncover .

 

[dionysus]

I know 32Red is more popular here, but GoWild has always done me right

 

[vinylweatherman]

you forgot somehow why the post was created in first place - since it was proved that the GoWild casino somehow(?) got the emails of me and few of my friends which we used for ONLY playing at 888 casino and have never(!!) use it or entered it in any other online form on web - meaning they either bought the DB or stole it, plain simple. all the other is just what google can found about them. primary reason still was and will stay (at least for me), if someone got my email from being stolen or bought, is ILLEGAL.. not to mention spamming.

This is the ONLY charge that you have presented evidence for, and even this does not necessarily prove it was Go Wild.

It is 888 that leaked your email address so that it ended up being sold into the spammer community. It is more likely that the Go Wild spam to this email address was the result of a dodgy affiliate then buying a "spam list" containing it.

Every now and then, someone joins here and starts trying to sell details from stolen player databases to dodgy affiliates who are members here. Although they are quickly banned, it does show that stolen data does find it's way into the spammer community, and is actively traded between it's members.

The real villain here is 888, not Go Wild. If 888 had secured the data better, it would not have leaked.

888 are known to sell on your details to it's white label operations, who are NOT as well vetted as 888 itself, and this is probably where the weak link lies in their security. It would be easier to steal the internal marketing list from a white label, perhaps one who was happy to provide it to an affiliate who promised to use it to promote said white label (hence all the Cassava spam players get). There is then little to stop this affiliate then using that list to send spam for non Cassava casinos that he also promotes, or even from selling on this list as though it were his own.

To check whether Go Wild are guilty, you have to set up the same test there, sign up to Go Wild with a unique email address, and then see if it starts receiving spam. Also, you need a control, which is a similar unique email address, but given to no-one. This will get spammed only by bot systems that spam random letter combinations in the hope of hitting valid email addresses. Subtract the control from the active Go Wild email address, and you have a measure of the spam generated as a consequence of using an email address at GoWild.

 

[Simmo!]

I have send Simmo PM with working URL's.. here they are, either use google translator for "basic" translation, or ask some of Yugoslavian friends to translate it for you.

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The paragraph talking about their investing of money into more illegal activities, is mentioned in almost all articles. It is from a statement of government prosecutor.

For the record, I sent these URLs to a Serbian friend of mine and asked him for his thoughts. The response was:

I've read the Serbian articles: these guys have been caught because they were doing online gambling, nothing more, the same way any legit operators could be prosecuted for doing the same thing.

I'm closing this thread as I am not convinced it can go any further constructively and will let users draw their own conclusions.