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Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by zman, Jun 1, 2008.

    Jun 1, 2008
  1. zman

    zman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    Home
    I have a dispute with bodog. They stole some money out of my account so i sent them a email to get info to PAB.

    I asked these questions:

    1. How much i have deposited to your site in the last 2 months
    2. How much have i wagered in the casino
    3. Average amount per bet.
    4. How much have i lost in the casino

    Now they said they can send me the first one by email (after 10 phone calls they still havent done that) but the other 3 by phone only.

    Now after escalating to a manager they said they couldnt tell me that info as it was against the laws to get those numbers. Funny thing is i saw my name in the news on their site as having won $9550 :lolup:.

    Now these guys are so incompetent they are not replying to my emails and are holding near 70k hostage.

    What do you think i should do? Their casino rep here doesnt reply. Is the Kahnawake Gaming Commission any help in matters such as this?

    Cheers
     
  2. Jun 1, 2008
  3. zman

    zman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    Home
    I did it again. Sorry mods can you send this to non bonus complaints please :notworthy
     
  4. Jun 1, 2008
  5. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Sounds weird.
    Have you tried just sending an unrelated email simply asking for your play records for those dates.
    It may well be received by someone who is unaware of your dispute and you may well get the info you need.
    When I played at Bodog they always paid same day to moneybookers and I always got any playchecks I requested within 2 Days.
    I stopped playing there because their slots went dead on me but otherwise I was happy with them.

    I am sure if you go about it in the right manner you will get the info you need but without knowing the nature of your dispute it is hard to comment further.
    You are much more likely to have a successful resolution to a valid complaint through Brian than through Kahnawake IMHO.
    If you cant get the info your after simply state the facts here or PAB with the infformation you have.
     
  6. Jun 1, 2008
  7. jas2587

    jas2587 Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    none
    Location:
    FL
    Have you tried going to their website logging in an checking your deposit History?
    it will tell you there

    are you saying you won 70k an they are keeping it or are you saying you deposited around 70k?

    Good Luck

    Cindy
     
  8. Jun 2, 2008
  9. zman

    zman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    Home
    I finally received funds to my neteller account.

    They will not send me answers to those questions. They have told me on a few occasions that it is against their Caribbean law to tell me how much i have wagered/lost :D

    Now there is just a matter of $10k they stole out of my account i have to look into.

    Basically i wagered more than $3,500,000+ on bj at about $400 a hand on average over a 3 week period or so. I deposit and withdraw because i play at a lot of sites.

    They basically sent me a generic message that due to neteller having some promo i have defrauded them out of fees and not wagering enough. Now the problem i have is how can they say i have not played enough. If i was to defraud them why would i play $400 a hand BJ when i only get like 1.5k for every 100k i transfer or something like that. I made the point if i was to try to defraud money from them why would i risk playing that high and for that much to do so? Why would i have 40k swings on a daily basis to defraud them out of $500?.

    Funny thing is with 3.5mill wagered i would have lost $17.5k because of the BJ edge at least. So really what are they complaining about? They made about 20k from me then goes ahead and steals another 10k while they are at it.

    Worse thing still is 3 days ago i dropped $21,000 at bodog. Then they locked my account for 3 days saying that they were investigating money laundering (always deposit via neteller and withdraw back to the same account). Then i find out after sending id and calling them every day for 3 days they stole 10k from me.

    So yeah i wasnt going to complain till i get my money now i have it they are going to taste of their own meds :thumbsup:

    Oh this is how stupid they are. Taken from their website they list my name and my recent "win".

    View attachment 12458

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jun 2, 2008
  11. zman

    zman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    Home
    Deposit history i can get. I cant get play logs or answers to the other 2 questions.
     
  12. Jun 2, 2008
  13. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
    RTG's dispute service is up and running.........can't say how effective it is.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Good luck!
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Jun 2, 2008
  15. refre

    refre Senior lurker PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Professional slot player
    Location:
    .
    Blaming the Neteller VIP promotion when you clearly wagered insane amounts of money, thats just unbelievable. Like you said, why would you risk all that money for a deposit bonus of a whooping 1.5% :confused:

    When are the they going to understand that a high roller like yourself will make them money in the long run?! Instead they make up some problem (and some laws??), and (hopefully) made you take your play elsewhere.

    Freddy
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Jun 4, 2008
  17. zman

    zman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    Home
    Their casino rep Carson is lurking in this thread. :thumbsup:

    He wanted me to point out that the money that was taken out was to cover the cost of their neteller fees for my deposits and not stolen :rolleyes:

    He also said the reason for removing the privilege of covering my fees because i did not risk enough per deposit.

    This is how bodog calculates your wagering amount.

    1. Deposit $10,000
    2. Buy in for $1,000 in casino chips.
    3. Won 20 hands in a row betting $500 a hand. You have wagered $10,000 in money but to bodog you have only wagered $500 of your own money.

    So for bodog i did not lose enough of my own money for them to cover my neteller fees.

    :lolup:

    Balls in your court Carson, I expect a prompt response.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jun 8, 2008
  19. zman

    zman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    Home
    Casino rep still has not got back to me.

    Left a message yesterday to call me. Lets see if he does.

    He knows the amount i wagered is by no means small and he has told me countless time he was hesitant to give me the numbers because i would post them here ;)

    Now he says that the wagering/money lost has no baring on this case, i care to differ.

    I want all the details so i can give it to brian to PAB but seems like the casino rep indirectly doesnt want that either :cool:
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Jun 10, 2008
  21. zman

    zman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    Home
    After review of your account we have the data in which you were requesting. For the past 30 days worth of activity, your average bet was $534.16. You have wagered approx. $3.2M in the Casino software, and are currently up $7,397.01. (which is hard to believe)

    You have deposited $290,600 and only elected to risk $97,000 - approx. 33% of your deposited amount. Most notably being May 16th, May 22nd, May 23rd, May 25th where you used less than 10% of your deposited totals.

    Again, we are only charging you the fees we absorbed previously but are passing to you as your depositing pattern is unnecessary. Prior to every deposit made, clients are advised of this policy. Please refer to the eWallet Agreement found in our Help Section should you wish to confirm. If you wish to deposit in the future, please ensure the deposited amounts are funds you wish to wager, and not simply have in the account like a bank.

    Regards,
    Carson
    Bodog Investigations


    :thumbsup:
     
  22. Jun 10, 2008
  23. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    Sounds you are a customer a casino might want to treat right

    Zman, I assume the emphasis is yours. I generally am not a big fan of yelling to make your point, but sometimes it is the best way to get attention.

    I would think that if you are a player who risked $97,000 plus and are up less than 8,000, that you are a customer any casino would want to keep. If you made 3.2 million in bets because you were up, still a customer you might want to keep.

    If your play by their rules is not overall profitable to them, they should change their policies, and it is your choice whether you continue to patronize their establishment.

    If they do not think you are profitable, I hope yelling at the top of your lungs will attract another casino to court you. That win sounds like well within expected variation, and the next year, when you lose 8,000 on 80,000 risked or the year after, or some other customer, or 100 customers who risk $100 a month would make you a treasured customer. As gamblers we take risks, and the casino has an expected profit edge over the long haul, so why try to chisel more out of clientelle. Do they think they are banks, :confused: or what?

    And how would they treat lowly rollers like me? Currently not accepting Canadians, but I thought their software was cool, and have freerolled. Not one bit of spam either from Bodog, and a great response from their rep at CM that prevented me from registering an account, uninstalling software I can't use, and fast & courteous response.

    If I had several million, I would open a casino, and make sure customers were treated right. They advertise how you won XXXX dollars, and while I am new to online gambling, land-based casinos put bells & whistles so that other players know there is hope for that win. The odds are against us gamblers and in favour of casinos, so the casino should expect any that "winner" like you is part of the course of business. They expect "losers" as part of their business strategy, and rightly so because the edge favours the house, or why run such a business?

    Sounds like big numbers, but I know that I have played $60,000 in bets trying to meet a W/R on a bonus with a min/max over the course of a weekend on a 10 or 20 dollar free roll. Still did not achieve cashout, and sometimes they are gone in 5 mins.

    If I win, I play more. If I lose, I play again, at about the same level. Is more a matter of how much bang for my buck, and that your gain for a month based on average bets of over $500 seems modest. If my $50 deposit turned into $700 would they refuse to pay me? Or make it difficult?. Not a Bodog customer, and aware that I lose overall.

    I know I am ranting a little, not just about your personal experience, but as a gambling consumer. That Meister is a consumer site is one of the reasons I come here and try to contribute.


    I have tried to follow this thread, and am not willing to comment on the fee/not appropriate legality, enforceability, etc. but I would think you would be a valued customer that they would want to make you happy, and if it was due to a miscommunication they would do a better job of responding to you so that other potential customers would see how they have treated you. Responses to legitimate questions had not clearly been answered for me following this thread, but not my beef, and I have not been asking the questions.

    But by your emphasis on their latest response to you, my reading of this thread (one sided, I admit, but they have their chance to respond) what I see is you have asked perfectly legitimate questions seems like you probably could have been treated better.

    Good luck to you Zman, keep us posted. I want to know how hard I have to fight to get an online casino to respond to me.

    For those who get the Dr. Phil (McGraw) Show, the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour. Does not mean the only indicator, people & business are capable of change.
     
  24. Jun 10, 2008
  25. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    FWIW, it doesn't look like the rep has been on-site for a while. I'll fire them a heads-up on this.
     
  26. Jun 10, 2008
  27. same_old

    same_old Dormant account PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    12th man
    Location:
    Australia
    ooo a good beefy thread to keep an eye on, I love em.

    this is crap, there software there rules and you have played within all the guidelines and they are still trying to throw the FU clause at you.
    Keep at it mate it is rightfully your money.

    How would this go down in a land based casino, wow great win of 90,000 sir, however we need to take 10k off you to actually pay the legit money we owe you.
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Jun 12, 2008
  29. zman

    zman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    Home
    Thanks guys. I would like the rep come on here and explain his side of the process.

    I would really love to PAB but by posting it i dont qualify any more :confused:

    But yes there definition of risking, is if i wagered down to my last penny then won back would be find but if i hit a good streak they will just make the money in other ways lol :thumbsup:
     
  30. Jun 12, 2008
  31. zman

    zman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    Home
    Well maybe like this.

    You get comped a hotel room. You wager a ton in the casino. Your a winner. Then they charge you for the hotel bill because you didnt lose enough for them to cover that comp :lolup:
     
  32. Jun 12, 2008
  33. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    California
     
  34. Jun 12, 2008
  35. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Like suzecat asked, who says you "don't qualify" if you PAB? I'd REALLY like to know where that idea came from.
     
  36. Jun 13, 2008
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It seems BoDog are lying, we don't know which way, but first they claim that their laws prohibit them from giving players their OWN PLAYLOGS (sounds like BS, and this claim should be forwarded to their new caribbean lincensors, as if true would do them one HELL of a lot of damage to have such a law for casinos run from there).

    Later though, it seems they were able to break this supposed law and give the player the details.

    The second bit of BS is about how they calculate wagering. It seems they claim that if you win money, your wagering cannot count. Taken to it's conclusion, this would mean that NO PLAYER would ever be able to "risk 1x deposit" unless they either lost the lot, or started a winning streak from their final bet.

    For bets of around $500 per hand, 10K does not seem to be an unreasonable amount to deposit.

    Perhaps it was the withdrawal, and almost immediate redeposits, that got their attention. Their T & C allow charges for withdrawals after one free one per month, but I saw nothing that would allow them to do what they have.

    How can they KNOW this player has "abused" a NETELLER promotion, What business have Neteller got in giving BoDog information as to what was happening solely between this player and Neteller. This could even be an offence under the IOM and UK laws that govern Neteller.

    BoDog should have to justify this deduction based on it's own terms as published, it CANNOT just make up rules as it goes along simply because they have either guessed, or used information they have no business having, that this player might be a VIP at Neteller.

    I could have indeed made a fortune from this Neteller promo, but sadly Casino Action is no more:mad:;)

    BoDog was a poor choice, as they have little respect for the law where it is inconvenient for them, but seem keen to obey laws that probably don't even exist when it helps their case.

    If they can be shown to have deliberately lied about this "Caribbean law" in order to back a refusal to supply playlogs, then they should be considered "pit material".
     
  38. Jun 13, 2008
  39. zman

    zman Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NA
    Location:
    Home
     

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