Ultimate Bet - superuser false alarm

Status
Not open for further replies.

realwtfsup

Experienced Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2004
Location
Tacoma
Here is an email from Phil Hellmuth and link to thread from 2+2


Okay before I call you.......I do have some information right now as I got off the phone with a "very high up". It does seem that there are several superuser accounts that UB has just mentioned to me. They were holding off on announcing it due to reasons I am unaware of, but apparently this is a new strand, like you suspected (and I doubted) of superusers, unlike with the AP scandal. I want to apologize, but keep in mind I was simply a "promotional" figure with them. This is an OFFSHORE company. Apparently it will be very hard to persecute, just as with the AP scandal, since the money has already been withdrawn according to "Kushal" since this did occur several months ago. They are saying that it is most likely they will be UNABLE to retrieve those funds as involved in the dispute. If you have any further questions, follow up in this email, but give it some thought. Thanks for your understanding as they will continue to work as best they can to see what can be done, however as under the agreement when downloading the software "it is an inherant risk" to play online as with any site. Again my apologies for this being pretty embarrassing personally, and also on behalf of UB, sorry for the bad news....

2+2 forum thread
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Post with Hellmuth email
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 
Last edited:

bb28

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Location
US
Here is an email from Phil Hellmuth and link to thread from 2+2


You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I read part of the thread the other day on 2+2 but there wasn't any email from Hellmuth on there. I don't see it there now after doing a real quick look.

Never mind.......I found the post on 2+2. Maybe this link will take you directly to that page.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 

pokeraddict

Webmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2002
Location
Las Vegas
I've been following this too. This is why it was a good idea to stop promoting and playing at UB too. These accusations have been floating around for quite some time but UB has been silent. It shows that AP has been lying all along too about being open about the fraud. Nobody should be shocked here. I wonder what is next.
 

bb28

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Location
US
This is just too much isn't it!
I used to play quite a bit of small stakes, but after the AP thing broke, I think I've made one deposit and I used to play at UB.
No more......how can any of the sites be trusted? I especially don't see how anyone playing with big stakes could put their faith in any site to be trustworthy and honest, after these two scandals. The official audit of AP.......seems to me that they were trying too hard not to step on any toes or ruffle any feathers.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Whoa! this really is a shocker that will reverberate around the Internet and rightly disturb players everywhere....and it sounds as if initially UB is taking the same denial route (trying to get threads shut down etc) as its sister.

Presumably UB shares the same Joe Norton "ownership" and Kahnawake licensing as Absolute Poker, which makes it even worse for both parties, given KGC's report over the weekend and its truly frustrating lack of real, hard information.

There's no way this one can be swept under the carpet.

Gaming Associates must be licking their chops at the prospect of another well-paid investigation. And any hope Kahnawake may have had of persuading the UK Gambling Commission to add it to the whitelist has now surely fled.
 

realwtfsup

Experienced Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2004
Location
Tacoma
This is just too much isn't it!
I used to play quite a bit of small stakes, but after the AP thing broke, I think I've made one deposit and I used to play at UB.
No more......how can any of the sites be trusted? I especially don't see how anyone playing with big stakes could put their faith in any site to be trustworthy and honest, after these two scandals. The official audit of AP.......seems to me that they were trying too hard not to step on any toes or ruffle any feathers.

Yeah! Thank god there are players out there who have the ability to find cheaters, colluders and bots.
 

pokeraddict

Webmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2002
Location
Las Vegas
Yeah! Thank god there are players out there who have the ability to find cheaters, colluders and bots.


But think about how much money players got cheated out of by "good" cheats at AP/UB. I can't imagine all of the cheating has been uncovered. There could be many millions of dollars stolen by these fraudsters that will never be found. What I don't get is that Hellmuth says players may not recover those stolen funds. UB owes these players and if they don't pay them even people that for some reason still defend AP/UB will have to come around and agree it's time to join the right side.
 

bb28

Meister Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Location
US
Yeah! Thank god there are players out there who have the ability to find cheaters, colluders and bots.

You hit the nail on the head with that comment. :thumbsup:

If it wasn't for them, people would just be blindly allowing their money to be stolen. I just hope that this makes more of a impact on online poker players more than the AP scandal seemed to. I was playing at 2 different sites recently and I mentioned the AP stuff in chat and can you believe.......hardly anyone knew about it. :eek:
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Yeah! Thank god there are players out there who have the ability to find cheaters, colluders and bots.

Never a truer word! And the fact that the player community has this capability to detect cheats should be a major deterrent for other crooked or vulnerable poker sites out there.....and so called regulatory and licensing jurisdictions who don't take their responsibilities to the players seriously.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
But think about how much money players got cheated out of by "good" cheats at AP/UB. I can't imagine all of the cheating has been uncovered. There could be many millions of dollars stolen by these fraudsters that will never be found. What I don't get is that Hellmuth says players may not recover those stolen funds. UB owes these players and if they don't pay them even people that for some reason still defend AP/UB will have ot come around and agree it's time to join the right side.

I agree - the Absolute Poker ruling by the KGC has at least set a strong precedent that sites caught out will be required not only to pay punitive penalties, but also reimburse players who have been prejudiced by the cheating.

If they do not stick to that, they will at the very least suffer damage to business and maybe sink (in retrospect - not a bad thought either for some of these venues!)
 

GaryWatson

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Location
Europe
Thanks nash, I can work the multi quote:thumbsup:

Yeah! Thank god there are players out there who have the ability to find cheaters, colluders and bots.

The problem is, when a site like AP realises they are being watched, they only have to use a little common sense to avoid being caught the next time. A half decent player could have been cheating from day one and we would never know. They dont have to win every hand to clean up.

I agree - the Absolute Poker ruling by the KGC has at least set a strong precedent that sites caught out will be required not only to pay punitive penalties, but also reimburse players who have been prejudiced by the cheating.

If they do not stick to that, they will at the very least suffer damage to business and maybe sink (in retrospect - not a bad thought either for some of these venues!)

KGC is a joke. By their own proclaimed standards, AP should be disqualified from holding a license & as part of the same company, so should UB. If they shut them down & they start up under a different name, so be it, it will be a heavy slap because they have to restart their marketing.

I cant imagine their blackjack games are any safer. Would you like to play a house game on that site? With the poker, they were collecting rake regardless of the results but that proved too little income. No-one really beleives it was simply a disgruntled employee, they would have been thrown to the wolves.
 

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Up$hitCreek
Thanks for posting this. And thanks to the players who stuck to their guns to find the truth.

And now... thanks to AP and UB and the cheats, I'll be certain not to play poker anywhere online with my money. Ever.

:sniper:
 

realwtfsup

Experienced Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2004
Location
Tacoma
Sorry for the misinformation!

So the emails ive been getting that I thought were Phil Hellmuth (I had good reasons to believe so) turned out to be some playing me like a fiddle, apparently ****ing with me for no good reason. What happend was I gave my email address to Phil while chatting with him at a table and there were hundreds of obvservers watching. I receieved about 8 different emails within the next 5 minutes and I was dumb enough to just assume that the screename I thought was Phil was actually phil. I guess the way he talked just seemed the most professional and I was convinced it was him. I kept in touch with this guy all day thinking it was actually Phil. I cant tell you how terrible I feel right now. I feel like my reputation has been tarnished but I want everyone to know, this was an honest mistake on my part. I didnt look enough into the info before I got all giddy and posted what I thought was a huge breakthrough.

Anyways after tracking down Phil at the tables I finally got a hold of him, this time for real. I just got off the phone wiht him after speaking with him for well over an hour. He informed me that he understands I made an honest mistake and totally forgives me, and even informed me to post that he said so. We went over the accounts in question and I got to say, he was very suspicous to say the least. . He informed me that UB has already started an investigation and that info should be released within the next few weeks. He is going to call me again within the next 1-3 days. That is all im going to comment on the issue right now, once again im terribly terribly sorry and I hope this does not tarnish my name.


You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.



I feel read bad now I do not believe he got his information that way.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Thanks for the heads up on this. I've renamed the thread "false alarm". And let's hope it stays that way :p
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Strange how some folks get their kicks by cold-bloodedly seeking to discredit a poster by playing "red herring" tricks like this on him/her...but glad to see you addressed the flaw quickly and openly, realwtfsup.

From what I can see, however, this does not discredit the full allegations being made here and elsewhere that something is amiss at UltimateBet and needs looking into.

And if UB has launched an investigation, then presumably it has also informed the KGC (if they've learned anything at all from the Absolute Poker debacle) within 24 hours of the discovery.

This does not appear to have been satisfactorily cleared up yet....I for just one will watch developments with interest.
 

Zoozie

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Location
Denmark
From what I can see, however, this does not discredit the full allegations being made here and elsewhere that something is amiss at UltimateBet and needs looking into.

The data from 2+2 shows foul play, with almost as little doubt in the AP scandal. This time is it not 15 sigma, but only 10 sigma 'lucky'-streak, so still nothing that can be explained by logic.

So the renaming of the title to 'false alarm' is not correct. It is still utterly suspicious. Especially that the user somehow has been deleted now. (AP also did this to cover up).
 

Komodo

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Location
Sweden
Why exactly is the thread renamed to false alarm for?
Its pretty clear more cheating has been going on by at least NioNio. Probably with help from very high up...

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Why exactly is the thread renamed to false alarm for?
Its pretty clear more cheating has been going on by at least nionio.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
Because the OP said that he posted false information and requested that it be changed. Normally, I do not base anything off of what goes on at other websites - you need to be cautious and not jump to conclusions.

There are many 2+2 members registered here. If there are issues that need to be referred to Casinomeister, I'm sure they will start posting them here.
 

KellyBlend

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Location
Germany
2+2 Mods deleted false information in connection with Phil Hellmuths emails already. The threads are now relatively clean. But here in this forum we still have the wording of these emails. Please consider them as false information. Nevertheless, the UP story is still hot and it seems to be no false alarm.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
I've said it before and I'll say it again... Cheaters are cheaters.

Why would anyone with more than 1/2 brain think that UP and AP are different... because they have different names... they are both owned and operated by the same people... the cheaters.


Show the affiliates how you feel.
If you see any website advertising either one of these two cheating poker rooms... Don't support them, don't buy anything from them and don't use their links to register at any casinos....
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
I've said it before and I'll say it again... Cheaters are cheaters.

Why would anyone with more than 1/2 brain think that UP and AP are different... because they have different names... they are both owned and operated by the same people... the cheaters.


Show the affiliates how you feel.
If you see any website advertising either one of these two cheating poker rooms... Don't support them, don't buy anything from them and don't use their links to register at any casinos....

And at least in the case of AP (and probably UB) please read post #3 here https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/outing-rogue-affiliates.21256/ and decide what to do from there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top